[Jordan.]

Couldn't believe it when I found out, obviously knew it was coming at some point but it still really hits you when it does happen.

I feel really sorry for her.

Shes just come on the music channel whilst I was writing this

[Novo]

Haven't heard much from her dad.. don't really pay much attention towards Music artists in the press what has he done?

[Sod_James]

Its sad because she was so young.

But you can't really be suprised by it. it was only a matter of time and its kind of her own fault.

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Lewis.

Can't see how karma can even be used to make a dig at her. She was obviously a young and innocent girl who just got lost with all of the fame and the money. I don't think she purposely went out of her way to get into such a life, she just fell into the wrong crowd and unfortunately it ended like it has.

Are you referring to my post if so I was suggesting karma to the ones who didnt post the most sympathetic messages on facebook.

[Pyramid*]

After watching the clips from her last concert - I am not one tiny bit surprised. I can't even say 'ach, that's sad'...... it was only ever going to go that way - it was inevitable.

.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by tmi

Are you referring to my post if so I was suggesting karma to the ones who didnt post the most sympathetic messages on facebook.

Karma doesn't exist though. It's in your head. Someone who posted a nasty joke might get twatted on the head with a glass bottle tonight but it will be entirely unrelated to some mystic force of nature.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by tmi

Are you referring to my post if so I was suggesting karma to the ones who didnt post the most sympathetic messages on facebook.

It was obvious to most, tmi. And I agree... if not with the actual concept of Karma, then with the idea that what goes around, comes around.

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Stu

Karma doesn't exist though. It's in your head. Someone who posted a nasty joke might get twatted on the head with a glass bottle tonight but it will be entirely unrelated to some mystic force of nature.

I never heard the phrase twatted on the head new on me

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Livia

It was obvious to most, tmi. And I agree... if not with the actual concept of Karma, then with the idea that what goes around, comes around.

Yes I was trying to get at that point, am I on your ignore list?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Lewis.

Can't see how karma can even be used to make a dig at her. She was obviously a young and innocent girl who just got lost with all of the fame and the money. I don't think she purposely went out of her way to get into such a life, she just fell into the wrong crowd and unfortunately it ended like it has.

I understand many will be sad etc, but personally? She was an adult. She was able to make choices. No one forced her to take all manner of drugs, and no one forced her to hang around with the low life types that see did hang around with.

Sorry Lewis, this is one that I'm not in the least bit sympathetic with - if someone plays with fire and all that...... she had the financial means to get the hell away from people that were bad for her, had the means to get herself checked in somewhere very long term.

If she wanted to have done that, she would have - if she cared enough about her life (and I mean as in life expectancy), she had everything available to her if she had wanted to get away from people / lifestyle / drugs / alchohol.

I know I won't be popular - no change there - but that's the way I feel.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by tmi

Yes I was trying to get at that point, am I on your ignore list?

No, you're not.

[Kerry]

Sad but it was always on the cards

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Livia

No, you're not.

Loving your avatar. I love Uma Thurman rumour has it she in new movie with that Pats fella out of twilight. Nice to know Im not ignored.

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I understand many will be sad etc, but personally? She was an adult. She was able to make choices. No one forced her to take all manner of drugs, and no one forced her to hang around with the low life types that see did hang around with.

Sorry Lewis, this is one that I'm not in the least bit sympathetic with - if someone plays with fire and all that...... she had the financial means to get the hell away from people that were bad for her, had the means to get herself checked in somewhere very long term.

If she wanted to have done that, she would have - if she cared enough about her life (and I mean as in life expectancy), she had everything available to her if she had wanted to get away from people / lifestyle / drugs / alchohol.

I know I won't be popular - no change there - but that's the way I feel.

Yes Mid I agree with some of your points but I think she was a tortured soul and like someone once said drugs and drink is a disease and yes she might have had peer pressure when surrounded by other users, but then she did have a choice whether to take or not. Fame can be a curse and if your vunerable before fame it can make that vunerability worse , when things are handed it on plate the temptation can be hard to resist once taken, just like fags they are a drug and legal too.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

No one forced her to take all manner of drugs.

Have you first hand experience with drug addiction? No? It can get to the point - and I don't care what anyone else says - where drugs make the choices. The chances are this overdose was accidental. She wasn't bowing out. She was bowing to her demons like her body has been practically forced to do.

It's an incredibly, incredibly vicious cycle to break. Not only does your body demand drugs but your entire psyche changes. It's too easy to sit there and say she could have gone to rehab. Plenty of people could go to rehab. A lot want to but can't. They are weak willed in a sense yeah but that's drug addiction for you.

Some people ask for death. They want to die. I'm betting Amy Winehouse didn't actually want to die and for me the buck stops there.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Stu

Have you first hand experience with drug addiction? No? It can get to the point - and I don't care what anyone else says - where drugs make the choices. The chances are this overdose was accidental. She wasn't bowing out. She was bowing to her demons like her body has been practically forced to do.

It's an incredibly, incredibly vicious cycle to break. Not only does your body demand drugs but your entire psyche changes. It's too easy to sit there and say she could have gone to rehab. Plenty of people could go to rehab. A lot want to but can't. They are weak willed in a sense yeah but that's drug addiction for you.

Some people ask for death. They want to die. I'm betting Amy Winehouse didn't actually want to die and for me the buck stops there.

Absolute tosh.

That is all.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I understand many will be sad etc, but personally? She was an adult. She was able to make choices. No one forced her to take all manner of drugs, and no one forced her to hang around with the low life types that see did hang around with.

Sorry Lewis, this is one that I'm not in the least bit sympathetic with - if someone plays with fire and all that...... she had the financial means to get the hell away from people that were bad for her, had the means to get herself checked in somewhere very long term.

If she wanted to have done that, she would have - if she cared enough about her life (and I mean as in life expectancy), she had everything available to her if she had wanted to get away from people / lifestyle / drugs / alchohol.

I know I won't be popular - no change there - but that's the way I feel.

That is how I feel. If she had truly wanted help, she had the means to go about it. There was nothing stopping her from moving into an isolated home in the countryside with a family member and cutting herself off from the world of drink and drugs she was immersed in. The only way to quit addiction is to go cold turkey. It is sad that she died, it's sad when anyone dies, there is always somebody who cares about somebody else's death, but I find the hysteria about her death that's mounting ridiculous for a few reasons. Firstly, she's "been working on a new album" for five years. She's produced no new music in half a decade. If the media hadn't made a show out of her drink and drug problem, she would have been forgotten about by most of the people in this thread until news of her death popped up with the odd "sad news, RIP " and that would be it. Instead, they made her life tabloid fodder and she's remained in the public eye for having drink and drug problems. Of course she was going to die young.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by tmi

Yes Mid I agree with some of your points but I think she was a tortured soul and like someone once said drugs and drink is a disease and yes she might have had peer pressure when surrounded by other users, but then she did have a choice whether to take or not. Fame can be a curse and if your vunerable before fame it can make that vunerability worse , when things are handed it on plate the temptation can be hard to resist once taken, just like fags they are a drug and legal too.

Crucial point.... I can't recall the last time someone staggered about, out of their face, making a complete arse of themselves, and overdosing on fags in an afternoon to the point that it killed them at the age of 27. I might be wrong, but I very much doubt it.

I don't feel sorry for her. Not one tiny bit. That might not please everyone, but I don't.

[Harry!]

Amazon are already very low in stock of her albums already with a delivery rate of 6 to 10 days.


Black To Black is already in the top 50 best selling album chart.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Absolute tosh.

That is all.

You're a smoker, right?

Give up the fags. There is a good chance they will be a contributing factor in your death etc. You can quit.

An unfair comparison you might say ... and relatively speaking it sure is ... but you can see where I'm coming from even if you don't want to admit it.

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Crucial point.... I can't recall the last time someone staggered about, out of their face, making a complete arse of themselves, and overdosing on fags in an afternoon to the point that it killed them at the age of 27. I might be wrong, but I very much doubt it.

I don't feel sorry for her. Not one tiny bit. That might not please everyone, but I don't.

Smoking can go on to other addictions like cannabis and yes I have seen people walking around with they're heads up their @rse.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Stu

You're a smoker, right?

Give up the fags. There is a good chance they will be a contributing factor in your death etc. You can quit.

checks birth certificate. I'm 46. Still going stong. I managed to avoid overdosing myself to death at the age of 27. That is the point. She didn't die from having one too many cigarettes. I know I'm stating the obvious here, but that , is fact. The fags didn't kill her. Illegal substances did.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by tmi

Smoking can go on to other addictions like cannabis and yes I have seen people walking around with they're heads up their @rse.

Tobacco is far more addictive than Cannabis. Cannabis is not physically addictive like Nicotine is. Most people mix Cannabis with tobacco. It's the tobacco they are addicted to not the Cannabis.

It took me twenty four hours to stop smoking dope after a daily four year habit. It's far from perfect but it shoudln't even be brought up as a point of comparison in addiction debates.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by tmi

Smoking can go on to other addictions like cannabis and yes I have seen people walking around with they're heads up their @rse.

Absolute rubbish Tmi. No offence, but I know hundreds of smokers who have managed not become entangled in the drugs scene to the point that it rules their life, despite smoking.

I happen to be one of them. I have a joint very occasionally. That's my choice - to only have one occasionally. No one forces me even to have that odd one every couple of months.

We aren't going to agree on this one.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

checks birth certificate. I'm 46. Still going stong. I managed to avoid overdosing myself to death at the age of 27. That is the point. She didn't die from having one too many cigarettes. I know I'm stating the obvious here, but that , is fact. The fags didn't kill her. Illegal substances did.

And what is the point you have proved? That an addiction to booze, smack and crack will kill you sooner? Damn right it will. My point didn't lie in the instant severity of the substance abuse. I was just trying to provide a comparison you can relate to in terms of the power of a drug addiction. Surely you can sympathise with that?

Take your addiction to nicotine - one I share - and multiply it by a thousand and you'll get a crack and smack addict.

'I could quit sure but I don't want to. It'll only kill me when I'm old anyway'.

'I could quit but boy does this feel good ... even if I could die next week'.

You could quit fags even though they will very likely - and quoting your age really is futile - be a contributing cause in your eventual death. And yet you aren't quitting them.

In Amy's case lower the mortality rate and up the addiction rate. See where I'm coming from?