[thesheriff443]

this thread is like good rally tennis.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

You want evidence of how many disabled people get annoyed at people being outraged on their behalf? Well, I can only speak from experience of chatting to the disabled people I know and interact with. I have a friend who has cerebal palsey, a brilliant career and a great sense of humour and she for one will make up her own mind what she can or can't laugh at.

How many times I'm going to repeat the fact that she show isn't aired yet is dependant on how many times you're going to ask me for my opinion. Hopefully you may have got it this time.

I have a friend/cousin/ best mate... classic get out of anything clause...
Ok livia

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Oh so you're disregarding most of my post? Well in that case to hell your opinion then, I think it's short sighted, foolish, ridiculous and completely self righteous.

I think a lot about what I post and that's why I'm not moronic enough to use bullying as a way to make my points stick. It's completely disgusting that you throw around accusations like that in order to press your own opinion of what's decent and what isn't on others.

But fine, we'll agree to disagree.

I am shocked you are staff! As having seen myself and marsh post a credible argument you choose to post abuse...
This is not your opinion but an out and out attack on those who you feel do not share your view!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

You asked me "or am I reading this wrong". It's a question you've asked me a few times before and you often misquote me. So yes, as usual, you are reading it wrong. I write in quite simple, plain English so the fact that you seem to miss my point regularly is not my fault. Do try to stop turning everything into a massive drama because I don't agree with you.

Once again, because you seem to have misinterpreted what I said.... I never said she should accept the abuse, I said she has to take some responsibility for thrusting a vulnerable child into the limelight in order to make a buck. That's what's disgusting.

BLAH BLAH...back tracking, that is exactly what you said livia....How he knew this child has no consequence as to how he chose to portray him....

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I never said she should accept the abuse, I said she has to take some responsibility for thrusting a vulnerable child into the limelight in order to make a buck. That's what's disgusting.

I completely agree, that is disgusting.
However, IMO, that is completely irrelevant to Boyles comments.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

You asked me "or am I reading this wrong". It's a question you've asked me a few times before and you often misquote me. So yes, as usual, you are reading it wrong. I write in quite simple, plain English so the fact that you seem to miss my point regularly is not my fault. Do try to stop turning everything into a massive drama because I don't agree with you.

Once again, because you seem to have misinterpreted what I said.... I never said she should accept the abuse, I said she has to take some responsibility for thrusting a vulnerable child into the limelight in order to make a buck. That's what's disgusting.

How has she done this?.....He is visable, as he needs to be in her life, not hidden away. She loves him as any mother does a son....What would I have done if Boyle had been as vile about my son?
What she chooses to do as a profession has no baring on her children..

I do not agree there ....by discrediting Ms Price you gain nothing

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Ricky gervais new comedy airs on thursday on C4 'Derek' being the central character is meant to be 'satiring prejudice against the disabled'
But is it?....
From the man who labelled Susan Boyle a mong I'm not convinced it's not just hi getting away with abuse.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...n-lazy-cruelty

QUOTE:
''"Derek is a fictional character and is defined by his creator. Me," he says. "If I say I don't mean him to be disabled then that's it''

His contradictory comments have not gone unnoticed....
QUOTE:
''Derek is an autograph hunter and this is Gervais on Derek, speaking to a journalist: "He's better than me. He's better than most people. He's kind, loving, funny, sweet, honest, open-minded, hard-working …"
This is Gervais on autograph hunters in his show:
QUOTE:
"They are the bane of my life. They're a mess. I don't mean their clothes. I mean their DNA."

Originally Posted by kizzy

Oh like he did with susan boyle you mean?....He was taking the piss.
And he is pushing boundaries yes, as he is getting away with it.

Originally Posted by kizzy

Thats like saying #my best mate is black and I say the N word all the time'...

Who mentioned twitter?...

Youtube video

Originally Posted by kizzy

What a bliddy hypocrite eh?...He dosen't take kindly to being insulted doe's he?....

Originally Posted by kizzy

Who is suggesting a censor?...It's just the concept that is in discussion.

Originally Posted by kizzy

There are lots of comedies that mock stereotypes...But the star is not so openly offensive to individuals in the name of 'comedy'.
That is simply called 'mocking' ...And is a form of bullying.
Nobody should have the right to abuse another and attempt to pass it off as 'entertainment'

Originally Posted by kizzy

Thats not really the point is it?..
In this country we have hate laws, discrimination is not tolerated.
So why then is it acceptable when under the guise of 'humour'?

Originally Posted by kizzy

What is the topic of the thread gypsy?
And discriminating against disabled people is now a crime. Susan whilst being a lovely singer is also classed as having a disability.
She is not a 'mong' however anyone attempts to define the term...

Originally Posted by kizzy

He wrote the show.
Is that the issue.. Would you mind being insulted in front of millions of people?

Originally Posted by kizzy

So you keep saying...If it is so open to interpretation, and could mean a complete idiot he could apply it to himself then?...Imo

Originally Posted by kizzy

I disagree, and I feel your view is not taking into account the need for a positive attitude towards the disabled in this country.
As for your 'disdain' it is unfortuate you feel that way, anything for a laff eh?...

Originally Posted by kizzy

No...
I'm sure she was thrilled.

Originally Posted by kizzy

The disabled..
Not according to him he isn't...have you read the OP?

Originally Posted by kizzy

?...Just read the article.

Originally Posted by kizzy

I would rather him not claim it was satirical, and then backtrack and claim that the character is not disabled.

Originally Posted by kizzy

Just read the article, I have said about all I can on the subject , untill it is shown I would just be repeating myself....

Originally Posted by kizzy

She...

Originally Posted by kizzy

No...I disagree she highlights his contradictory statements, It shows his 'satire ' argument for what it is....rubbish.

Originally Posted by kizzy

Exhibit.
Seeing as I quoted from what he actually said and not the article it's hard to discredit that....
It has caused quite a reaction in you...Maybe you have a point?...

Originally Posted by kizzy

Quote:
"Derek is a fictional character and is defined by his creator. Me," he says. "If I say I don't mean him to be disabled then that's it.

Then why suggest it is a satirical look at disability?...If he is not in any way disabled?.....

Originally Posted by kizzy

No it doesen't...
Im perfectly happy with my stance thankyou. I don't feel it is weak.

Originally Posted by kizzy

I did not assume anything....
I only asked for opinions based on the concept of the show, and the comments made in the article in the OP.

Originally Posted by kizzy

No, It doesen't work like that.
As with all prejudice its not for the abused to speak out its for the rest of society to say 'that is unacceptable'.

Originally Posted by kizzy

Why?...If It is being used to ridicule a section of our 'civilised' society then it is wrong.
Do you have any evidence to support this? Who are these 'most' disabled people?

Originally Posted by kizzy

No I'm not, all I asked was for an opinion....If you don't have one fine.

Originally Posted by kizzy

The disabled are also classed as vulnerable, I thought you would know that ammi.

Originally Posted by kizzy

So you have no idea what was said by Frankie Boyle, and yet you seem to be suggesting that the comments he made regarding her disabled son she is somehow responsible for?.....
Is that what you are saying livia, or am I reading this wrong?

Originally Posted by kizzy

How about the beckhams...tom cruise... madonnas kids?....
Stop trying to justify it , it's pathetic.

Originally Posted by kizzy

Stop taking comments out of context. If you don't agree with the opinion fine don't misquote people its uncalled for.
Just be gracious enough to except some have their reasons for their view.

Originally Posted by kizzy

Don't exaggerate...
I'm entitled to my opinion, as are you. Difference is I'm not the one jumping to bizarre conclusions...

Originally Posted by kizzy

Welcome to my world....

Originally Posted by kizzy

Yes It should..If he had made those comments on the street it would have been a very different story.

No it would not...You cannot be personally offensive and then cry 'It's OK I was only joking!'

Your attempt to justify this to me has failed....But I respect you and your right to your opinion.

Originally Posted by kizzy

Wrong...And in my opinion just keeps getting wronger....

Originally Posted by kizzy

Do a bit of research, find out what free speech actually means and we can discuss it.

Originally Posted by kizzy

Please don't patronise me.
No she doesen't...She did not put those words into his mouth, and it is disgusting in my opinion to suggest that she should accept that abuse.

Originally Posted by kizzy

I have a friend/cousin/ best mate... classic get out of anything clause...
Ok livia

Originally Posted by kizzy

I am shocked you are staff! As having seen myself and marsh post a credible argument you choose to post abuse...
This is not your opinion but an out and out attack on those who you feel do not share your view!

Originally Posted by kizzy

BLAH BLAH...back tracking, that is exactly what you said livia....How he knew this child has no consequence as to how he chose to portray him....

Originally Posted by kizzy

How has she done this?.....He is visable, as he needs to be in her life, not hidden away. She loves him as any mother does a son....What would I have done if Boyle had been as vile about my son?
What she chooses to do as a profession has no baring on her children..

I do not agree there ....by discrediting Ms Price you gain nothing

OK, I know this post will get me infracted or banned, but I feel I want to make it anyway. Kizzy, I've only quoted your replies, but would like you to read back through this thread, of course that's your decision. The original OP, the 'theory' of whether satire is an acceptable form of comedy is an interesting one and worthy of a debate. There are many types of comedy and it's very unique to the individual as to what makes them laugh. But I do agree satire is probably the most 'controversial', by it's very nature. Some will obviously see it in bad taste and offensive and others will see it as a platform to raise awareness of the more 'delicate' social areas, in a way that appeals to a large audience. Comedy and Ricky Gervais are popular with many, whether we personally find them so or not, so by doing this, he is in fact raising public awareness, he's prompting people to think and discuss their views on disabled people and how they are portrayed in the media and that is better than people not considering it at all. Too many things, important things, are not thought of at all, and we are all guilty of that, we all have our own 'stuff' to think about and don't always give time to think of others.

I think I may be rambling a bit so I'll get to my point now, which is in fact only my opinion. Many members have offered an opinion on this subject, and I commend you for the thread, however...
..I have not once read what your opinion actually is. Your posts beride everyone else for their opinion and obviously we can't agree with them all but you don't actually say why you object to them, why you think they're not valid or irrelavant
Livia gives you her opinion and her own personal relation with a friend and you dismiss it. Dezzy explains in great length why he feels 'free speech' should not be ignored in this and you pick out a word for correction. In all honesty I think you were simply rude and dismissive to Gypsygoth. These are simply my opinions.
I myself sometimes post a story and leave it for others to discuss, while I give it more thought and reading other peoples opinions helps me form what my own opinions are. Listening to others as well as what your instincts tell you is the best way to balance your view. This is something I don't think you do. There are some very valid points in this thread, from both sides, but none of them are from you. And yet you patronise and beride and make rude and dismissive remarks to anyone who has made the effort to contribute to this thread.
I hope you're not a troll Kizzy, someone who 'pokes' people for a reaction because that would be a shame. You have made many interesting threads and potentially could be a great contributor, but I feel you need to start contributing or leave the thread open for others to debate and stop dismissing them when they do or if you are going to dismiss them, give a reason why. I'm sure you have much to offer and yet, with the many posts you have made, you have offered nothing at all. If you do decide to read through this thread again, please Kizzy, listen to what people have said and whether you agree or oppose their opinion, accept that all points are worthy of respect and don't dismiss them out of hand in a very rude and patronising way

Edit: I also meant to say: Imo both 08Marsh and Dezzy have expressed equally valid views. One is more 'emotional' which is something society must take on board and the other is more 'practical' questioning if lines are drawn, it is no longer free speech, we all look at things differently but neither one is 'wrong'. These 'opposing' views are what contribute to a well balanced debate, neither being less important than the other. I have not seen any dismissal of either of these views by the other, only a 'lost in translation' of whether the posts have actually been read, because not bothering to read a response imo, is the greatest insult of all. They have both made good contributions to this thread

[thesheriff443]

and this is general chat
i wonder what it would be like if it was serious.lol

[thesheriff443]

just to add one thing if katie price never did so much drink and drugs while she was pregnant harvey would not be like he is today.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Personally i don't find this type of comedy funny. But i understand why some people may like it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

OK, I know this post will get me infracted or banned, but I feel I want to make it anyway. Kizzy, I've only quoted your replies, but would like you to read back through this thread, of course that's your decision. The original OP, the 'theory' of whether satire is an acceptable form of comedy is an interesting one and worthy of a debate. There are many types of comedy and it's very unique to the individual as to what makes them laugh. But I do agree satire is probably the most 'controversial', by it's very nature. Some will obviously see it in bad taste and offensive and others will see it as a platform to raise awareness of the more 'delicate' social areas, in a way that appeals to a large audience. Comedy and Ricky Gervais are popular with many, whether we personally find them so or not, so by doing this, he is in fact raising public awareness, he's prompting people to think and discuss their views on disabled people and how they are portrayed in the media and that is better than people not considering it at all. Too many things, important things, are not thought of at all, and we are all guilty of that, we all have our own 'stuff' to think about and don't always give time to think of others.

I think I may be rambling a bit so I'll get to my point now, which is in fact only my opinion. Many members have offered an opinion on this subject, and I commend you for the thread, however...
..I have not once read what your opinion actually is. Your posts beride everyone else for their opinion and obviously we can't agree with them all but you don't actually say why you object to them, why you think they're not valid or irrelavant
Livia gives you her opinion and her own personal relation with a friend and you dismiss it. Dezzy explains in great length why he feels 'free speech' should not be ignored in this and you pick out a word for correction. In all honesty I think you were simply rude and dismissive to Gypsygoth. These are simply my opinions.
I myself sometimes post a story and leave it for others to discuss, while I give it more thought and reading other peoples opinions helps me form what my own opinions are. Listening to others as well as what your instincts tell you is the best way to balance your view. This is something I don't think you do. There are some very valid points in this thread, from both sides, but none of them are from you. And yet you patronise and beride and make rude and dismissive remarks to anyone who has made the effort to contribute to this thread.
I hope you're not a troll Kizzy, someone who 'pokes' people for a reaction because that would be a shame. You have made many interesting threads and potentially could be a great contributor, but I feel you need to start contributing or leave the thread open for others to debate and stop dismissing them when they do or if you are going to dismiss them, give a reason why. I'm sure you have much to offer and yet, with the many posts you have made, you have offered nothing at all. If you do decide to read through this thread again, please Kizzy, listen to what people have said and whether you agree or oppose their opinion, accept that all points are worthy of respect and don't dismiss them out of hand

Edit: I also meant to say: Imo both 08Marsh and Dezzy have expressed equally valid views. One is more 'emotional' which is something society must take on board and the other is more 'practical' questioning if lines are drawn, it is no longer free speech, we all look at things differently but neither one is 'wrong'. These 'opposing' views are what contribute to a well balanced debate, neither being less important than the other. I have not seen any dismissal of either of these views by the other, only a 'lost in translation' of whether the posts have actually been read, because not bothering to read a response imo, is the greatest insult of all. They have both made good contributions to this thread

Thankyou for your opinion.
Not true, you have chosen to ignore it.
I have not been In any way shape or form rude to anyone.
Good for you...I do too, but if I disagree I am not afraid to say it.

Can you not see how rude it is to accuse someone of being a 'troll?' You may not see my point ....you may not agree with my point... I might 'appear' to you a certain way, that is your issue not mine.
My comments are how I feel, I don't go into chapter and verse, but I feel I manage to get my view on the subject across fine.
Of course they are worthy of respect and I have said so myself many times.
Really?...I have. Many of my comments have been met with condecension.

I can honestly say I have read every post on this thread, and responded how I saw fit. If you do not like my posting style or my views that is your problem not mine.
I do not wish to argue ammi, if you have such a strong opinion then you are under no obligation to post in this thread.
I will reserve any further judgement on this topic untill I have seen the show this evening.
Just to add, I am really upset by this attack ammi, and I really do not think I have done anything to warrant your insults.

[Mrluvaluva]

Channel 4, 10 pm.

[Kizzy]

Hey...Are you after aristas job or summat?...

[Mrluvaluva]

Not at all. I just think there are a few people who will not want to miss it. I am sure there will be more discussion after the pilot has aired.

[InOne]

Will you be watching kizzy?

[Shaun]

I posted about the TV show a week ago in the TV section but noone commented [/storyofmylife]

[Boothy]

I thought it was good. A lot truer to reality than most people care to believe.

Thoughts?

I don't think any of the pre-show hysteria was in any way justified. Gervais' shows are always about interactions.

[Shaun]

Gonna watch it later, but I doubt it'll contain anything near as offensive as the usual hysterics would like me to believe

[Marsh.]

I'd like to sit down and watch it but I think I'll wait until the weekend. I don't really like Gervais so I'm not expecting much as far as my entertainment goes.

[Mrluvaluva]

I had to record it as I was watching Celebrity Juice so will post my thoughts once I have watched it.

[Jack_]

For a one-off comedy, and for someone who doesn't really bother with many of Gervais' shows (even though I like him), I thought it was quite good.

Not laugh-a-minute in the slightest, but it had its moments. It was more about the underlying message of questioning different stereotypes, all of which I thought were very discrete but pretty clever in how they were used, i.e. the woman assuming that if when she asked the man what kind of films he liked, she'd be able to determine whether he was gay, and of course at the start when Karl Pilkington's character said he 'wasn't interested in being on TV, showing off his life' - cleverly mocking shows that follow certain celebrities around like Peter Andre.

The pre-show criticism was, as other people have said, totally unjustified. Nothing in the show was offensive, it was all about cleverly mocking stereotypes. The ones I picked up on aside from the ones I mentioned were also about how disabled people are perfectly capable of doing such a job, and could show care and compassion, and there were a few little remarks which I can't remember which seemed to take the piss out of how care home life and elderly people are stereotyped.

As I had guessed...not at all offensive, and a massive overreaction by some before the show had even aired. I still stand by my point earlier in this thread that if you don't understand satire, then this show might've been offensive to you, but if you don't, are are intelligent enough to pick up on what was going on, then it wouldn't have been. I'm expecting Kizzy to come in here eating her words, as I had always thought she would have to afterwards...but we'll see.

[InOne]

I thought it was pretty good. Not offensive or even trying to be offensive. God knows why there was all the nonsense before lol

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Derek will be the sanest, most honest and most innocently pure character on the show. Gervais' comedy is more about the interactions of people, so it's more likely to be poking fun at people that continually undervalue real life versions of Derek.

Prophets gon' prophesizzle

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I'm expecting Kizzy to come in here eating her words, as I had always thought she would have to afterwards...but we'll see.

To be fair to kizzy she never said anything definitive about Ricky Gervais. She opened a debate to ask people's opinion on it and then the thread developed into a conversation about offensive comedy in general.