[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

the most vulnerable are the disabled and the sick and elderly all of whom have been ignored for decades

I agree as to that and they are the ones who are actually suffering now at these reforms, to name 2 instances I know of.

A friend of mine who who was brain damaged in a car accident, has had his benefits reduced twice now, after these new assessments as to ESA. his family and myself and his other friends have had to spend ages sorting things out for him, he cannot express himself and cannot walk.

Twice, these ATOS people employed by this Govt have hauled him in for a face to face assessment.
Twice the DWP have reduced his benefits.
We have appealed twice and had the appeal upheld and the decision overturned.
Still it goes on.
The stress, worry and confusion this has caused to him and all involved in his care is enormous.

We have to all to do again too when he will have to re-apply for PIP as opposed to DLA when that change gets round to him too.
That is the effects of these reforms on genuine sick and disabled and therefore vulnerable too.

This bedroom tax, I know of someone in a house with 4 bedrooms, he and his wife have 3 daughters at present.
They have been told that at least 2 of the girls should share, so that means they have a spare bedroom, it is a tiny box room really but the Local Authority class it as a bedrrom.
He claims housing benefit and will be £40 a month worse off.

Again no fault of theirs as to this, they have the secured tenancy and were told these were entitlements they should claim, now at a stroke they are being penalised for being on a very low income.
They are also vulnerable and to me anyway, this is totally wrong.

As to genuine sick and disabled vulnerable people getting a rotten deal as to these reforms the list must be massive.
This rotten Govt ignores completely these issues and as to the first instance I posted, Duncan Smith would tell you that shouldn't happen but he doesn't do a single thing about it when he and his department are told of them happening.

I don't agree the elderly have been ignored for decades, with the increasing of cold weather payments from under £7,(under the Conservatives), up to £25 by the last Labour Govt, and the introduction of pension credit plus the winter fuel allowance and restoration of free bus passes, more was started to be being done for the elderly and a great many elderly were massively grateful for those moves too.

You won't hear much of that from the Daily Mail though.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I agree as to that and they are the ones who are actually suffering now at these reforms, to name 2 instances I know of.

A friend of mine who who was brain damaged in a car accident, has had his benefits reduced twice now, after these new assessments as to ESA. his family and myself and his other friends have had to spend ages sorting things out for him, he cannot express himself and cannot walk.

Twice, these ATOS people employed by this Govt have hailed him in for a face to face assessment.
Twice the DWP have reduced his benefits.
We have appealed twice and had the appeal upheld and the decision overturned.
Still it goes on.
The stress, worry and confusion this has caused to him and all involved in his care is enormous.

We have to all to do again too when he will have to re-apply for PIP as opposed to DLA when that change gets round to him too.
That is the effects of these reforms on genuine sick and disabled and therefore vulnerable too.

This bedroom tax, I know of someone in a house with 4 bedrooms, he and his wife have 3 daughters at present.
They have been told that at least 2 of the girls should share, so that means they have a spare bedroom, it is a tiny box room really but the Local Authority class it as a bedrrom.
He claims housing benefit and will be £40 a month worse off.

Again no fault of theirs as to this, tey have the secured tenancy and were told these were entitlements they should claim, now at a stroke they are being penalised for being on a very low income.
They are also vulnerable and to em anywa, this is totally wrong.

As to genuine sick and disabled vulnerable people getting a rotten deal as to these reforms the list must be massive.
This rotten Govt ignores completely these issues and as to the first instance I posted, Duncam Smith would tell you that shouldn't happen but he doesn't do a single thing about it when he and his department are told of them happening.

I don't agree the elderly have been ignored for decades, with the increasing of cold weather payments from under £7,(under the Conservatives), up to £25 by the last Labour Govt, and the introduction of pension credit plus the winter fuel allowance and restoration of free bus passes, more was started to be being done for the elderly and a great many elderly were massively grateful for those moves too.

You won't hear much of that from the Daily Mail though.

the standards of cafre for the elderly are a national disgrace. prisoners are treated better

i blame 2 things for the failure to support the sick, disabled and elderly, the corrupt rich and the lazy workless chavs whove corrupted the benefits system. get those lazy scumbags off the handouts and back to work. loads of them are simply scumbags , period
that should allow more money for the genuine cases.
also tighten up benefits on men/women who simply breed for money and homes
also people who worked longer and paid more into the system over the years should get more than those who have paid much less into the system

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

the standards of cafre for the elderly are a national disgrace. prisoners are treated better

i blame 2 things for the failure to support the sick, disabled and elderly, the corrupt rich and the lazy workless chavs whove corrupted the benefits system. get those lazy scumbags off the handouts and back to work. loads of them are simply scumbags , period
that should allow more money for the genuine cases.
also tighten up benefits on men/women who simply breed for money and homes
also people who worked longer and paid more into the system over the years should get more than those who have paid much less into the system

I doubt many would disagree with near all that. I wouldn't although I wouldn't use the same terminology.
However Pensioners are getting really very little and indeed nothing from this Coalition Govt.
All they are doing is keeping in place so far what Labour brought in for those over 60.
The only thing this Govt has done is link pensioners increase to the rate of inflation but the lower of the 2 ways of recording inflation which means inflation outstrips the increase they get.

I am not so sure completely as to people getting more than vulnerable people who haven't paid into the system though, for me, you either have an emtitlement or you don't.

Someone in their teens for instance or at College/Uni who finds themselves injured permanently, who suffers brain damage or full physical impairment or both.
They will not have paid into the system but I couldn't agree in that instance that they should receive less to have to live on than someone else who had paid into the system, more to the point though had been able to pay into the system.,being in relatively good health.

Also as to the unemployed, there would have to be the number of jobs available for those unemployed and fit for work now.
People who want a job but cannot get one because there are not the vacancies, equally in my view should not be disadvantaged either.

In a better economic climate though, what you say would be a good way to try as long as it is done with fairness and compassion too, looking at each case indivudally and not making any generalised policy for all.
Such as is being done by the media and Govt ministers as to benefits and this tragedy.

[Kizzy]

The one issue that has not been addressed is how this will affect crime rates, if there are no jobs and benefits are cut won't more people resort to crime.
Will this not be a huge strain on the economy?

[arista]

Owen Jones was on the Big Question
BBC1 10AM
hour show.




Talking about the 1930's yet again

[Kizzy]

And you are surprised why?...
Shocked there hasn't been a jarrow march organised yet tbh.

Originally Posted by the truth

the standards of cafre for the elderly are a national disgrace. prisoners are treated better

i blame 2 things for the failure to support the sick, disabled and elderly, the corrupt rich and the lazy workless chavs whove corrupted the benefits system. get those lazy scumbags off the handouts and back to work. loads of them are simply scumbags , period
that should allow more money for the genuine cases.
also tighten up benefits on men/women who simply breed for money and homes
also people who worked longer and paid more into the system over the years should get more than those who have paid much less into the system

Most of those "lazy scumbags" would love the chance to get back into work.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The one issue that has not been addressed is how this will affect crime rates, if there are no jobs and benefits are cut won't more people resort to crime.
Will this not be a huge strain on the economy?

Well, there you go, that will certainly become another major factor.
Which is inevitable when you have a Govt like this one that doesn't think things through with compassion and fairness.

That is a very strong point you make, of course it is wrong to break the law but if you force further desperation onto already desperate people,who are in that situation through no fault of their own,then one option will be they will resort to desperate means.

Creating a whole new set of problems and massive further costs dealing with the consequences of those problems too.

[arista]

Youtube video

This is from 2007 Gloom
Blink its also today


Come back Rory
we need you


at 2:13
Last PM Big Smile - Mad Glint in his Eye

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

[arista]

Youtube video

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

[arista]

Youtube video

[arista]

Youtube video

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Most of those "lazy scumbags" would love the chance to get back into work.

Ive created 100s of jobs and I assure you the majority on benefits do not want to work. how many jobs have you created? None I presume judging by your infantile posts.

[arista]

BBCNews showed Public
Backing Conservative-LidDems

[Jack_]

[joeysteele]

The polls show only what most people think, even I approve of welfare reforms that are just and fair.

However public opinion on this at this moment has been helped to be clouded by the tragedy of this family.
Wait until evictions start against people who are sick and disabled because of the bedroom tax, ask the question then and a likely different answer will be given although as the polls suggest there are around 6/7 people out of 10 who do support benefit and welfare reform, at this moment in time.
However not all those 6 or 7 people out of 10 who are, will agree with heartless and unjust reforms,all is now just slowly being made known as to the bedroom tax and other changes.

It will also depend on area too, those who are well off and insulated from this especially in areas of the South to a degree, will support likely any measures to reform welfare.
Facts will start to speak for themselves on this and all party's are in favour of welfare reform anyway,in fact Labour started some of the reforms, re -the ATOS testing for one.

In the end as people see and hear the effects of these reforms on people genuinely in great need then I am confident the people will turn against these heartless reforms from this Govt. and turn quite heavily indeed.
The Lib Dems are already pulling back from these reforms,toning down the language and I know from Lib Dem councillor friends that the Lib Dems have massive concerns at the effects of the bedroom tax.

2 years from now, the voters will be screaming for the defeat of this Govt, I am confident of that.
Welfare reforms are always popular as an ideal with the public, the enacting of them and the effects they have can bring disaster to the Govt doing so and that is likely why even Margaret Thatcher in her severe policies time in the 80s even drew back from even trying.

It is a poisoned chalice and this Govt will in time not know what hit it as to these heartless reforms no matter what a few polls may say now taken on the back of this tragedy being linked with benefit reform.

[joeysteele]

It is a pity your post and those headlines are not on every paper stall tomorrow Jack.
So much said in so few words.

[Kizzy]

The effect of uprooted communities from London moving further north will put pressure on local councils in these areas. At the same time they will be faced with the decision whether or not to prosecute vulnerable tenants they find are struggling with the extra housing and council costs.

Originally Posted by the truth

Ive created 100s of jobs and I assure you the majority on benefits do not want to work. how many jobs have you created? None I presume judging by your infantile posts.

There is nothing infantile about suggesting that people whom are currently unemployed, would love an opportunity to get back into work.

I don't believe you've created 100's of jobs. You were asking for advice how to manage some womans hours not too long back, so I'd take things one step at a time if I were you, Gordon Gekko. You don't know anything about my work or what I do, yet felt sure enough to make a stupid assumption - that just about sums you up.

Finally, even if you had created 100's of jobs, it still doesn't qualify you to say that "the majority of people on benefits do not want to work."

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

There is nothing infantile about suggesting that people whom are currently unemployed, would love an opportunity to get back into work.

I don't believe you've created 100's of jobs. You were asking for advice how to manage some womans hours not too long back, so I'd take things one step at a time if I were you, Gordon Gekko. You don't know anything about my work or what I do, yet felt sure enough to make a stupid assumption - that just about sums you up.

Finally, even if you had created 100's of jobs, it still doesn't qualify you to say that "the majority of people on benefits do not want to work."

the fact that youre an attention seeking blasphemer certainly doesnt qualify you for saying these people all want work. Incidentally your recall of a question I ased is disingenous lie much f what you say. I have a great deal more experience than you in employing people, as well as employing 100s of people over the years, Ive interviewed probably 1000s and the attitude of a great deal of workers is poor. their attitude, their ambition, their values and respect is massively harmed by the benefits system and the poor economy. It maes them lazy and complacent and destroys their zest for life.

[Jack_]

I have never come across a member with a more inaccurate name than you before

[joeysteele]

The Truth, with the fullest respect it must have something to do with the area where you are as to finding people not wanting jobs and work.

Two small businesses where I am at present, advertised 2 vacancies, one part time, and one full time, they were stunned to get over 50 people applying.
They felt really sad that they couldn't take more on but they could only afford the 2 positions.

You must be in a unique area as to find people not wanting jobs. Even large companies when they advertise state that they get at the very least a minimum 20 people chasing each vacancy.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The Truth, with the fullest respect it must have something to do with the area where you are as to finding people not wanting jobs and work.

Two small businesses where I am at present, advertised 2 vacancies, one part time, and one full time, they were stunned to get over 50 people applying.
They felt really sad that they couldn't take more on but they could only afford the 2 positions.

You must be in a unique area as to find people not wanting jobs. Even large companies when they advertise state that they get at the very least a minimum 20 people chasing each vacancy.

20? Round here its a ratio of around 200 applicants for each job..at least.

My father in law advertised a job vacancy when he owned his bar, and got literally 200 applicants within the first day. And this was about 3 years ago now...before the recession really bit and loads became redundant.

http://www.tescoplc.com/index.asp?pageid=17&newsid=731

2000 withinin two days for the new tesco thats being built here too. I know it says 200 vacancies, but 2000 intwo days is still a hell of a lot of people. That wasnt even advertised very well either.