[Kyle]

What is your opinion of 'human nature'

Are we as a species 'civilised'?

If not, will we ever be?

Is cruelty a defect or just a lack of empathy?

[Marc]

No

As long as religions exists we'll never be civilised or live in harmony.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Marc

No

As long as religion exists we'll never be civilised or live in harmony.

I agree about religion. Organised religion in my opinion has shackled humanity for far too long.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Marc

No

As long as religions exists we'll never be civilised or live in harmony.

This is the stupidest claim ever, why do people keep saying it. Without religion there would definitely be more social disorder, it's extremism that needs to stop

People who say this are usually just jumping on a bandwagon and not making any attempt to try and think

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Salman!

This is the stupidest claim ever, why do people keep saying it. Without religion there would definitely be more social disorder, it's extremism that needs to stop

Why would there be more social disorder? Are us atheists immoral vagabonds or something?

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Why would there be more social disorder? Are us atheists immoral vagabonds or something?

Stop playing the defensive atheist, I didn't say any of that I'm just saying that religion holds people down

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Salman!

Stop playing the defensive atheist, I didn't say any of that I'm just saying that religion holds people down

You said without religion there would be more social disorder.


I would thus conclude from that you mean to ascertain atheists lack morality in comparison with theists.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Salman!

Stop playing the defensive atheist, I didn't say any of that I'm just saying that religion holds people down

Wrong, civility holds people up not down. religion is exploited by evil people.
We are all animals but humans are the only animals who take more than they need.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Salman!

This is the stupidest claim ever

It's really not. You can dispute a church's role in shaping and structuring societies and civilisations versus the comparative harm they have wrought but any usefulness that the major world religions may have had in the past has long evaporated.

I'm hardly atheist by any stretch of the imagination but apart from a new spiritual order I would much rather a world ran by atheists. Organized religion in it's current guise is an antiquated blight on consciousness. Systems of societal control and nothing more.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Stu

It's really not. You can dispute a church's role in shaping and structuring societies and civilisations versus the comparative harm they have wrought but any usefulness that the major world religions may have had in the past has long evaporated.

I'm hardly atheist by any stretch of the imagination but apart from a new spiritual order I would much rather a world ran by atheists. Organized religion in it's current guise is an antiquated blight on consciousness. Systems of societal control and nothing more.

Could you repeat that in words of 3 syllables or less?

[Kyle]

If anyone needs a fine example of both sides of the coin regarding are we civilised I watched a video on youtube about a group of monkeys who lived indoors under captivity for 30 years being released into a much larger outdoor reservation.

Seeing the look of astonishment on their faces as the door slid open and sunlight hit them for the first time nearly brought a tear to my eye. How can a rational human being lack the compassion to keep an animal caged up like that is beyond me.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Stu

It's really not. You can dispute a church's role in shaping and structuring societies and civilisations versus the comparative harm they have wrought but any usefulness that the major world religions may have had in the past has long evaporated.

I'm hardly atheist by any stretch of the imagination but apart from a new spiritual order I would much rather a world ran by atheists. Organized religion in it's current guise is an antiquated blight on consciousness. Systems of societal control and nothing more.

I can see why religion controlling the world can be problematic

I just mean it's important it exists in some form

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Salman!

I can see why religion controlling the world can be problematic

I just mean it's important it exists in some form

This is a debate and I welcome your contribution just as much as any other persons even though I disagree.

Personally I wouldn't shed a tear if all organised religion followed the Dodo into extinction but fair play Salman.

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by Marc

No

As long as religions exists we'll never be civilised or live in harmony.

bull****

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

bull****

He's right. Religion is a fantastic tool for exploitation and diversity.

If organised religion still has power there is no chance whatsoever of unity

Not saying that humanity is capable of harmony because it is incredibly likely that it is not but the chance is reduced whilst different religions hold power in people's everyday lives.

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

He's right. Religion is a fantastic tool for exploitation and diversity.

If organised religion still has power there is no chance whatsoever of unity

Not saying that humanity is capable of harmony because it is incredibly likely that it is not but the chance is reduced whilst different religions hold power in people's everyday lives.

Sure it is, but things would not be any better without it. Ideas are powerful and they can be twisted whether it's religion, nationalism, or liberalism. People naturally want to believe in something whether it is themselves, a God, or a nation. Nothing will ever change no matter how much people pretend we are 'progressing'

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

Sure it is, but things would not be any better without it. Ideas are powerful and they can be twisted whether it's religion, nationalism, or liberalism. People naturally want to believe in something whether it is themselves, a God, or a nation. Nothing will ever change no matter how much people pretend we are 'progressing'

If people desperately want to believe in something then I would argue that religion has exploited the very human nature. I don't doubt that for a second btw I an aware that a lot of people look to things for solace/guidance etc.

But in my eyes religion has burned too many bridges. Religion is in essence 'this is what happened, everything my teachings say are real and everybody else is wrong' and such a core belief as that is divisive.

I'm not surprised people have a problem with religion, as a species our progression has been shackled by its influence for far too long and we are fortunate that where we live we are able to question things without being branded heretics or maligned.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

Nothing will ever change no matter how much people pretend we are 'progressing'

That's quite a cynical viewpoint. The world is far from perfect and I am lucky to be in a rather nice part of it but I would much rather be here today than in plenty of generations and civilizations in the past. I do genuinely think we can sort ourselves out and establish an equilibrium with this planet. Judging by the responses in this thread I feel like one of the only optimistic ones in here.

We can absolutely evolve consciousness and explore space - both inner and outer - together in peace. It's a tough sell but that's no reason not to sell it.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

bull****

So yoooooou... disagree?

[Kizzy]

We are a product of our environment.

[fingers]

I would just change one word in Marc's post by adding an "s" to religion.

[Marc]

Ah well I did mean all of them

[fingers]

I thought you did!

[arista]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

What is your opinion of 'human nature'

Are we as a species 'civilised'?

If not, will we ever be?

Is cruelty a defect or just a lack of empathy?

Some Nations
are not (by western views)
but they are set in their old way.
So Afghan Woman are at the level
of a Dog or below.



Now that nation has gone back in time
and said this is how we want it to be
now as the murdering USA /UK troops are going.


So for them it is a way of Life
Not a Defect.

[Stu]

I believe that our carnal nature has driven us to physical division and conflict whilst our egos have pushed us to spiritual division and conflict. I take stock in theories that involve all of us together needing to reawaken and elevate our one consciousness to the next level through mindfulness, well being, meditation and treating others well.

We need to supercede these notions that we are in any way separate from one another. By harming each other and harming the environment we are harming ourselves and sending out negative, destructive forces be they in the material realm or in the realm of consciousness. Anything that isn't love is simply a corruption of love.

We've dragged our bodies out of the swamps but clearly our minds are still playing a catch up game. We have an enormous wealth of culture and technology but these facets of existence are transitory and not enough on their own to validate our apparent greatness or stop us from being a mammal that is constantly waging a war with itself. It's not our nature. We need to reach towards something more ethereal and substantial than our current goals of administrating money and improving technology. We take ourselves far too seriously. Stu is nothing more than the lens that this piece of the consciousness is viewing the world through. I am but a fleeting expression of the universe. A damn handsome one, at that.

Spoiler:

Youtube video

Be nice to one another I suppose, like. I'm Jesus now everyone follow me.