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lovebigbrotheruk · 05-08-2016, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfacrown

The mania for being a victim and giving other human beings titles like 'Bigot', 'Misogynist' etc - which reduce the accused to the status of non-person - has now entered the BB house. As it happens I don't agree with Biggins' comments about bi people., but I'm old enough to understand that he grew up in a world where the visibility of gay people was negligible . If gay people were mentioned at all, it was seen as a medical or criminal condition. The whole gay movement has been built on visibility and the strength to come out of the closet. It was a physical battle, literally a daily battle against the risk of black eyes , broken ribs or worse: much worse. Biggins comes from the time where many gay people pretended to be bi as it was seen as more 'acceptable' and straight people often believed that bi people would simply straighten themselves out. Thirty years or more ago the LGBT battle lines were drawn and people were upfront and blunt: they simply did not have a fear of names or opinions. The world has gone mad, with adults no longer able to cope with different opinions or words, or stand up to fight and win an argument. Any bi people, offended or not, should bow down to the Biggins of this world. Without their struggle, they would simply not be able to go about their business or enjoy the state of being constantly offended.
As for causing offence, was it not a couple of weeks ago that Chanel 5 showed a man sucking on a woman's nipple and the same women appearing to get fingered under the bed sheets? It didn't offend me but I'm sure plenty of people would be offended by it. The right to offend is absolutely crucial to the principal of Free Speech.

Oh please, I am very well versed on civil rights pioneers, particularly in the gay rights movement. Equating Biggins ignorant comment with such people really is extremely disrespectful.

Age is nothing but a number. I don't care if you're 10 or 100. There's no excuse to be ignorant on such things when there is information on the topic right at your feet.

halfacrown · 05-08-2016, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovebigbrotheruk

Oh please, I am very well versed on civil rights pioneers, particularly in the gay rights movement. Equating Biggins ignorant comment with such people really is extremely disrespectful.

Age is nothing but a number. I don't care if you're 10 or 100. There's no excuse to be ignorant on such things when there is information on the topic right at your feet.

Yes age is irrelevant, but experience is not. Perhaps you think that the civil rights pioneers of the gay movement would be appalled by what Biggins said, they wouldn't, they were fighting so many worse, frightening, dangerous situations every day of their lives. I think it is ignorant to reject his efforts in the fight for gay rights.

lovebigbrotheruk · 05-08-2016, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfacrown

Yes age is irrelevant, but experience is not. Perhaps you think that the civil rights pioneers of the gay movement would be appalled by what Biggins said, they wouldn't, they were fighting so many worse, frightening, dangerous situations every day of their lives. I think it is ignorant to reject his efforts in the fight for gay rights.

This is just hypothetical. Have you any evidence that they wouldn't be appalled or...? My guess is no since most of them aren't alive anymore.

halfacrown · 05-08-2016, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovebigbrotheruk

This is just hypothetical. Have you any evidence that they wouldn't be appalled or...? My guess is no since most of them aren't alive anymore.

Not hypothetical at all! I am one of them myself. Yeah, I've had the black eyes, the broken ribs.. literally helped to fight against a crowd of Nazi-supporting skinheads trying to force their way into a gay pub. Queer bashing was rife in schools and on the street. I was born into a world where being actively gay was literally against the law. When you've lived in that world, it is not possible to be worked up about opinions like Biggins'. I disagree with him, but I respect him greatly.

Garfie · 06-08-2016, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfacrown

The mania for being a victim and giving other human beings titles like 'Bigot', 'Misogynist' etc - which reduce the accused to the status of non-person - has now entered the BB house. As it happens I don't agree with Biggins' comments about bi people., but I'm old enough to understand that he grew up in a world where the visibility of gay people was negligible . If gay people were mentioned at all, it was seen as a medical or criminal condition. The whole gay movement has been built on visibility and the strength to come out of the closet. It was a physical battle, literally a daily battle against the risk of black eyes , broken ribs or worse: much worse. Biggins comes from the time where many gay people pretended to be bi as it was seen as more 'acceptable' and straight people often believed that bi people would simply straighten themselves out. Thirty years or more ago the LGBT battle lines were drawn and people were upfront and blunt: they simply did not have a fear of names or opinions. The world has gone mad, with adults no longer able to cope with different opinions or words, or stand up to fight and win an argument. Any bi people, offended or not, should bow down to the Biggins of this world. Without their struggle, they would simply not be able to go about their business or enjoy the state of being constantly offended.
As for causing offence, was it not a couple of weeks ago that Chanel 5 showed a man sucking on a woman's nipple and the same women appearing to get fingered under the bed sheets? It didn't offend me but I'm sure plenty of people would be offended by it. The right to offend is absolutely crucial to the principal of Free Speech.

Thank you for this. This puts Biggins comments very clearly in context, and highlights the reason for generational differences. Although Biggins did cause offence to some, your post outlines the probable reasons behind this, as well as encouraging people to reconsider his intentions. If offence is not meant, it is easier to dismiss a comment, and I am sure Biggins would willingly apologise if he was told that he has caused offence.

What I find intolerable is when certain people on here group together to take part in an offensive and insulting onslaught of abuse directed at another forum member, and even worse, to continue to do so even after they have been clearly told they are causing offence.

You have stated the other side of the debate in a civil and informative way, which enables people to look at another side of the debate.

halfacrown · 06-08-2016, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garfie

Thank you for this. This puts Biggins comments very clearly in context, and highlights the reason for generational differences. Although Biggins did cause offence to some, your post outlines the probable reasons behind this, as well as encouraging people to reconsider his intentions. If offence is not meant, it is easier to dismiss a comment, and I am sure Biggins would willingly apologise if he was told that he has caused offence.

What I find intolerable is when certain people on here group together to take part in an offensive and insulting onslaught of abuse directed at another forum member, and even worse, to continue to do so even after they have been clearly told they are causing offence.

You have stated the other side of the debate in a civil and informative way, which enables people to look at another side of the debate.

The problem being that there is too much 'offence' and too little debate. Worse still is that when somebody has been deemed offensive or a bigot they are then condemned and become non-people, no longer able to pursue their lives. Those who rush to claim their victimhood, over mere opinion, become the bullies. This is where the notion of Cry Bullies comes from.
My understanding is that Biggins was talking about gay people who pretend to be bi. He was pointing out that some gay people pretend to be bi in order more easily to gain acceptance.
There is a weird desire to share oppression and to perceive opinions as crimes. Free Speech is even more important than freedom from Hate Speech. It's a tough idea for people to accept but the right to cause offence is vital to the concept of Free Speech.

hot2go · 06-08-2016, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfacrown

The mania for being a victim and giving other human beings titles like 'Bigot', 'Misogynist' etc - which reduce the accused to the status of non-person - has now entered the BB house. As it happens I don't agree with Biggins' comments about bi people., but I'm old enough to understand that he grew up in a world where the visibility of gay people was negligible . If gay people were mentioned at all, it was seen as a medical or criminal condition. The whole gay movement has been built on visibility and the strength to come out of the closet. It was a physical battle, literally a daily battle against the risk of black eyes , broken ribs or worse: much worse. Biggins comes from the time where many gay people pretended to be bi as it was seen as more 'acceptable' and straight people often believed that bi people would simply straighten themselves out. Thirty years or more ago the LGBT battle lines were drawn and people were upfront and blunt: they simply did not have a fear of names or opinions. The world has gone mad, with adults no longer able to cope with different opinions or words, or stand up to fight and win an argument. Any bi people, offended or not, should bow down to the Biggins of this world. Without their struggle, they would simply not be able to go about their business or enjoy the state of being constantly offended.
As for causing offence, was it not a couple of weeks ago that Chanel 5 showed a man sucking on a woman's nipple and the same women appearing to get fingered under the bed sheets? It didn't offend me but I'm sure plenty of people would be offended by it. The right to offend is absolutely crucial to the principal of Free Speech.

You may think I have a different view on this to you but I def don't....your post is exactly what I've been saying for days ...I think Biggins is a silly old fart and I've never liked him but I do think he has personal experiences and reasons for being a silly old fart with his views regarding bisexuals. I also think people love to jump on something and claim to be more offended then they actually are....who gives a sh-t what Biggins thinks, Christ...if I expected him to say anything I agreed with id be more worried.
It's quite ironic that I spent the week before he made the comment being told I was terrible for saying I can't stand him,when everyone thought he was wonderful, and now I've got the same people telling me I'm terrible for seeing his perspective.

halfacrown · 06-08-2016, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot2go

You may think I have a different view on this to you but I def don't....your post is exactly what I've been saying for days ...I think Biggins is a silly old fart and I've never liked him but I do think he has personal experiences and reasons for being a silly old fart with his views regarding bisexuals. I also think people love to jump on something and claim to be more offended then they actually are....who gives a sh-t what Biggins thinks, Christ...if I expected him to say anything I agreed with id be more worried.
It's quite ironic that I spent the week before he made the comment being told I was terrible for saying I can't stand him,when everyone thought he was wonderful, and now I've got the same people telling me I'm terrible for seeing his perspective.

Okay, we're on the same page regarding people's hypersensitivity. I find it more difficult to understand the extent of your dislike of Biggins, nor do I agree with your observations regarding gay people. You seem very caught up in clichéd ideas about 'gossipy', 'bitchy' gays. Trust me, nobody enjoys being trivialised, either for being gay or being old.

Jan S · 06-08-2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Who Is She?

You're not entitled to have any opinion on things like sexuality IMO. There shouldn't need to be an opinion there. It is what it is. It shouldn't have to be debated. Bisexuals are just biseuxals. We don't need people sticking their two cents in on that.

you know, that's one of the scariest things i've seen here

Jan S · 06-08-2016, 01:39 PM

i don't like biggins. he's exactly what hot2go calls him = a silly old fart

having said that, if that transcript is true (and i'm not at all sure it can be) then he must have been drunk, is suffering from senility, or having some absolute mental crisis! his beliefs match those of an era long gone; 37 years ago i had a boss who thought that way and he was in his late 60's. biggins may hold those views, but to open his mouth and let them escape on tv? i find that really hard to believe. i hope it's not true - not for his sake, but for the sake of believing things have moved on so much farther than when i first worked in a london office with an old colonial bigot.

Headie · 06-08-2016, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan S

you know, that's one of the scariest things i've seen here

No it's not at all.

hot2go · 06-08-2016, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfacrown

Okay, we're on the same page regarding people's hypersensitivity. I find it more difficult to understand the extent of your dislike of Biggins, nor do I agree with your observations regarding gay people. You seem very caught up in clichéd ideas about 'gossipy', 'bitchy' gays. Trust me, nobody enjoys being trivialised, either for being gay or being old.

Well I'm gay and not young and I speak from my own experiences....I don't like Biggins because i find him totally fake and self serving not because he's gay.
And I do believe that the gossip surrounding him will have a bigger impact on the gay scene then the impact of his out dated opinions.

ThriceShy · 06-08-2016, 01:50 PM

Oh dear:

Big Brother UK ‏@bbuk · 46m46 minutes ago

We can confirm that a transcript claiming to relate to Christopher Biggins' removal from the #CBB house is 100% fake

user104658 · 05-08-2016, 10:29 PM

Called it as soon as I saw the guy on launch night tbh.

Also highly amusing to see people banging on about the right to free speech as ever

. He's not being arrested... Big Brother is a television show run by a privately owned television company, who can do whatever they think will best protect their viewership numbers and revenue. Full stop. It is not a public forum... they can remove whoever they want, for whatever reason they want. It's like when people try to apply the principles of free speech to a forum like TiBB and start bawling when those rights are "infringed". NOPE. Forum is PRIVATELY OWNED and the owners can KICK YOUR ARSE OFF OF IT ON A WHIM. For literally any reason. For no reason at all, in fact. Just like you can ask someone to leave your house if you don't want them there. It has absolutely jack **** to do with the right to free speech.