[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Is there an amnesty this weekend and we can call people names and give them labels, why didn't anyone tell me

It only works one way apparently.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

They won’t be trying to intimidate people into silence, they will just be ignoring those that do. PC will have less impact as people stop allowing it to control them expressing their concerns/opinions.

Does that apply to feminism / sexism too, then?

[Marsh.]

It's hardly "calling names". It's not as though someone's going around being childish calling people twats and dickheads.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Women have been and still are oppressed in many societies but we don’t make a fuss about men dressing as women. Nothing stereotypical or mocking about drag queens then. That is not only about history but about an unchallenged here and now. I am calling out those that have such blatant double standards.

So continue to explain if you feel the need.

I really don't think drag is comparable to blackface or has anything to do with sexism. First of all women as well as men perform in drag as the opposite sexes (it's just drag queens are far more popular than drag kings... they're still a legitimate thing though), but mainly because for a lot of people drag is an expression of rebellion against gender stereotypes and is therefore liberating for both sexes, it really doesn't have anything at all to do with 'mocking' the other sex, it's about mocking the ways in which society expects those sexes to behave (and I've seen a lot of drag shows and honestly a lot of them don't even try and hide the fact they're a man in a dress with some of the stuff they come out with ), and also there just isn't the historical context to compare it to blackface, it hasn't been used as a repressive thing (quite the opposite), and it's not insulting towards a group of people. You link women being oppressed by men with men dressing up as women but even though it's women being impersonated, it's not women that are the 'targets' of it, which makes it very different.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by arista

Nice to see you Back
CHUFF

Nice to see you back too Arista.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's hardly "calling names". It's not as though someone's going around being childish calling people twats and dickheads.

Excuse me, calling someone racist, and I personally have been called a troll for which I have been infracted for doing myself previously???? the troll comment was from a moderator.... honestly the double standards and how the rules are applied on TiBB are very random to say the least.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Excuse me, calling someone racist, and I personally have been called a troll for which I have been infracted for doing myself previously???? the troll comment was from a moderator.... honestly the double standards and how the rules are applied on TiBB are very random to say the least.

Well racist is fairdos in my opinion. If someone feels that racist views are being shared.

Troll is different though.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Excuse me, calling someone racist, and I personally have been called a troll for which I have been infracted for doing myself previously???? the troll comment was from a moderator.... honestly the double standards and how the rules are applied on TiBB are very random to say the least.

So calling a post that is, in someone's genuine opinion, a racist post "racist" is now "name calling"?

But what if you do think it is racist?

Is one then supposed to quietly think it internally but not say / type it out loud, because doing so is "name calling" and offensive?

There's a term for that I think. Oh yes... "Political correctness". It works both ways, I'm afraid, and people who want to see an "end to political correctness" are going to find themselves being called out for their views a lot more than they would like, it seems.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well racist is fairdos in my opinion. If someone feels that racist views are being shared.

Troll is different though.

you may call me by my formal name now Mrs C Troll.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I really don't think drag is comparable to blackface or has anything to do with sexism. First of all women as well as men perform in drag as the opposite sexes (it's just drag queens are far more popular than drag kings... they're still a legitimate thing though), but mainly because for a lot of people drag is an expression of rebellion against gender stereotypes and is therefore liberating for both sexes, it really doesn't have anything at all to do with 'mocking' the other sex, it's about mocking the ways in which society expects those sexes to behave (and I've seen a lot of drag shows and honestly a lot of them don't even try and hide the fact they're a man in a dress with some of the stuff they come out with ), and also there just isn't the historical context to compare it to blackface, it hasn't been used as a repressive thing (quite the opposite), and it's not insulting towards a group of people. You link women being oppressed by men with men dressing up as women but even though it's women being impersonated, it's not women that are the 'targets' of it, which makes it very different.

Perfectly explained Jamie.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So calling a post that is, in someone's genuine opinion, a racist post "racist" is now "name calling"?

But what if you do think it is racist?

Is one then supposed to quietly think it internally but not say / type it out loud, because doing so is "name calling" and offensive?

There's a term for that I think. Oh yes... "Political correctness". It works both ways, I'm afraid, and people who want to see an "end to political correctness" are going to find themselves being called out for their views a lot more than they would like, it seems.

well its fine coming from you, though having said that you were fully sure you would be banned today, but here you are, when it comes from the moderating team it sets a tone, and they can't really argue about members using labels if they are happy to do so themselves, so I shall be slinging a few names round as I see fit in future now the path has been cleared for me to do so.

[user104658]

For what it's worth Cherie I don't think you're a troll... You just seem really frustrated and pissed off ALL of the time pretty much, and that leads you to doing the daft things like "laughing emojis" at other peoples back handed insult posts, which comes across as snide and could be misconstrued as trollishness.

I think you're just genuinely annoyed, which is fair enough.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

well its fine coming from you, though having said that you were fully sure you would be banned today, but here you are, when it comes from the moderating team it sets a tone, and they can't really argue about members using labels if they are happy to do so themselves, so I shall be slinging a few names round as I see fit in future now the path has been cleared for me to do so.

I won't disagree that the rules are somewhat unclear. I (and I'm sure others) have had infractions for far less than last night's thread; I didn't think it would be just me getting an infraction but pretty much everyone invited loved. I was right that the posts would all be removed, though, 2/3 of the thread was gone when I got up this morning .

But I would imagine this is a pretty tough forum to moderate these days, so...

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I won't disagree that the rules are somewhat unclear. I (and I'm sure others) have had infractions for far less than last night's thread; I didn't think it would be just me getting an infraction but pretty much everyone invited loved. I was right that the posts would all be removed, though, 2/3 of the thread was gone when I got up this morning .

But I would imagine this is a pretty tough forum to moderate these days, so...

hardly, there is no one left to moderate

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I really don't think drag is comparable to blackface or has anything to do with sexism. First of all women as well as men perform in drag as the opposite sexes (it's just drag queens are far more popular than drag kings... they're still a legitimate thing though), but mainly because for a lot of people drag is an expression of rebellion against gender stereotypes and is therefore liberating for both sexes, it really doesn't have anything at all to do with 'mocking' the other sex, it's about mocking the ways in which society expects those sexes to behave (and I've seen a lot of drag shows and honestly a lot of them don't even try and hide the fact they're a man in a dress with some of the stuff they come out with ), and also there just isn't the historical context to compare it to blackface, it hasn't been used as a repressive thing (quite the opposite), and it's not insulting towards a group of people. You link women being oppressed by men with men dressing up as women but even though it's women being impersonated, it's not women that are the 'targets' of it, which makes it very different.

I must admit I haven’t heard of drag kings. New one on me.

I value your opinion which is well expressed without feeling the need to insult and I hear what you are saying I just find it difficult to agree.

What I find frustrating is that it seems that many people insist on seeing what was not intended to be offensive as repressive and insulting. Surely when wearing a costume in an event like this people want to look as authentic as possible. Zulus were black, a white face would look rather silly. I feel that to pretend otherwise would be insulting. Surely context is the key here but it’s being completely ignored

I don’t believe anyone is trying to insult zulus here and I’m sure most know that so why do they get so defensive. Targeting suggests an intent to insult but I don’t see that here and I find it strange that others do.

We all know how crazy and OTT PC can be and many consider this a good example of that in my opinion.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

well I let you get away with it a few times, enough is enough

I am glad you are enjoying it, enjoy the time with your kids it is precious I loved being at home with my kids

They're at school most of the time then I'm at work 2 evenings and all weekend. I'm enjoying the time with the PS4 and Netflix

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I must admit I haven’t heard of drag kings. New one on me.

I value your opinion which is well expressed without feeling the need to insult and I hear what you are saying I just find it difficult to agree.

What I find frustrating is that it seems that many people insist on seeing what was not intended to be offensive as repressive and insulting. Surely when wearing a costume in an event like this people want to look as authentic as possible. Zulus were black, a white face would look rather silly. I feel that to pretend otherwise would be insulting. Surely context is the key here but it’s being completely ignored

I don’t believe anyone is trying to insult zulus here and I’m sure most know that so why do they get so defensive. Targeting suggests an intent to insult but I don’t see that here and I find it strange that others do.

We all know how crazy and OTT PC can be and many consider this a good example of that in my opinion.

I don't know enough about the Zulu thing tbh (I just wanted to jump in on the drag thing because I do know about that ) but my general view is that traditionally with blackface, the intent of it was to enforce stereotypes and mock black people, and we have such a bad history in how black people have been treated (which blackface played a part in because of those things) that I suppose any reminder of it or alternative form of it might be insulting, even if that particular form of it isn't intended to be so, because of the history of it. Personally I'm not usually offended by something unless I think there's an intent behind it, but then I've never been the target of racist mockery either so I don't know really, because even if the intent isn't there with the Zulu impersonations, the connotations still are, and I can't tell someone that has been affected by racism that they can't be offended by something that appears to be racist (even if it isn't meant to be).

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well it all seems to be going a bit too far now,we did a zulu tribe in our local carnival a few years back, the kids loved it the crowd loved it nothing racist was raised,just a good happy fun day,people just seem to want to whinge over everything and everything,and for what it's worth I think some of the comments to brillo are offensive,but hey ho,that's life.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Excuse me, calling someone racist, and I personally have been called a troll for which I have been infracted for doing myself previously???? the troll comment was from a moderator.... honestly the double standards and how the rules are applied on TiBB are very random to say the least.

The thread is about whether something is racist or not but we're not allowed say we think someones opinion is racist in a thread about whether something is racist or not.....bizarre logic. Who are the PC brigade again?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The thread is about whether something is racist or not but we're not allowed say we think someones opinion is racist in a thread about whether something is racist or not.....bizarre logic. Who are the PC brigade again?

But some were not just saying that were they, they were repeatedly calling me racist, not my opinions, but me. If I had insulted someone like that I would have been banned. To deny the double standards is pointless. Please show me where I behaved like that.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

But some were not just saying that were they, they were repeatedly calling me racist, not my opinions, but me. If I had insulted someone like that I would have been banned. To deny the double standards is pointless. Please show me where I behaved like that.

Are you trying to say that people with racist opinions aren't racist? I'm not sure if your grasping the definition of "a racist".

"A person with racist opinions" pretty much covers it.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Are you trying to say that people with racist opinions aren't racist? I'm not sure if your grasping the definition of "a racist".

"A person with racist opinions" pretty much covers it.

Not at all biased with your OTT controlling PC opinions then. You interpret according to your own agenda. Convenient rather than reasonable.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not at all biased with your OTT controlling PC opinions then. You interpret according to your own agenda. Convenient rather than reasonable.

Whilst we're here, I don't think you're grasping PC-ness either. Calling someone a racist? Not particularly PC. claiming you can't say the word racist cos it's mean? Super PC.

[Brillopad]

I see the sharks are circling.

[Niamh.]

Why are you asking me to show you proof of something as if I accused you of something and need to back it up?