[user104658]

What I will address;

Apparently there's some confusion with thinking that I'm using the word "understanding" synonymously with "compassion". Which just is not the case. I'm not generally all that compassionate, and that's in no way what I was even talking about

Bluntly as I can put it; I don't care that this guy is dead. Literally... at all. It gets a big "meh" - he invaded someone's home and he got stabbed. It seems pretty inevitable. I also don't really care that his family are upset about it. I don't know them... it's not exactly on my radar. When I say I like trying to "understand" these things it's not some bleeding heart acceptance thing... it's because I find attempting to understand human and social psychology interesting and rewarding, in the sense that it's fascinating.

I'm sure that'll just piss you off more because, for whatever reason, you think you need to "knock me down a peg" and tell me that "I'm not all that clever" like it's some sort of weird personal mission. Luckily, along with this fellow's death, I don't particularly care about your assessments of how smart I am or am not either .

[thesheriff443]

Do we know if he was stabbed with his own screw driver or was it a knife from the kitchen.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Do we know if he was stabbed with his own screw driver or was it a knife from the kitchen.

He was stabbed with the screwdriver the criminal brought with him,the old guy was protecting his disabled wife,that criminal would have used it against him,wonder what people sticking up for this wanker would say then.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

He was stabbed with the screwdriver the criminal brought with him,the old guy was protecting his disabled wife,that criminal would have used it against him,wonder what people sticking up for this wanker would say then.

I would say, why didnt he?

But im not one of those people.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I would say, why didnt he?

But im not one of those people.

If you mean; Why didn't the burglar USE the screwdriver on the 'old man' - HE DID. He held it to his throat but the 'old man' obviously surprised bully boy and won the grapple which ensued.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

If you mean; Why didn't the burglar USE the screwdriver on the 'old man' - HE DID. He held it to his throat but the 'old man' obviously surprised bully boy and won the grapple which ensued.

Good on him.

[thesheriff443]

I think some forum members need to stop jumping on members because some of us don't nod our heads all at the same time.

[Amy Jade]

If I lived on that street I would be livid if I had to put up with this day in day out. The travellers constantly showing up and bringing press en mass and then a rinse and repeat with people ripping them down.

[thesheriff443]

Something to think about, kenny noye who stabbed Stephen Cameron to death on a motorway junction, before that was found not guilty for stabbing an under cover police officer to death in his back garden and claimed self defence, he was being investigated for playing a part in the brinks matt gold robbery.

[Parmy]

So lifes only fantastic under the tories, everyone managing fine..loads of opportunities for our youth..blah blah blah.....

Who mentioned travellers ..britains **** again...yawn.

[Cherie]

At least the thread has returned to talking about the particular story, rather than just an opportunity to traveller bash so that is something at least.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Cherie

At least the thread has returned to talking about the particular story, rather than just an opportunity to traveller bash so that is something at least.

People dislike "travellers" for good reason

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

People dislike "travellers" for good reason

They can dislike whoever they like, alot of people dislike alot of people, if the crime was committed by any other group we wouldn't be dragging everyone associated with that group through the mud that is the point I am making, it wouldn't be tolerated on the forum.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

They can dislike whoever they like, alot of people dislike alot of people, if the crime was committed by any other group we wouldn't be dragging everyone associated with that group through the mud that is the point I am making, it wouldn't be tolerated on the forum.

[Ammi]

...it would be interesting to know if the couple themselves would want the flowers taken down by residents or if they would want the grief to be allowed in this way...

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it would be interesting to know if the couple themselves would want the flowers taken down by residents or if they would want the grief to be allowed in this way...

Since they can't go back to their home due to threats and intimidation, what do you think? It's not an act of grief, its clearly an act of intimidation.

I would imagine that both the pensioner and his wife are devastated by events. He's killed someone, was forced to, do they really need all this drama as well?

If someone in my family had the habit of going armed into elderly peoples homes to rob them I'd be ashamed, and appalled, not floating around with tributes to 'the boy' of 39. Loving someone doesn't mean you have to exclude them from all moral norms.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Since they can't go back to their home due to threats and intimidation, what do you think? It's not an act of grief, its clearly an act of intimidation.

I would imagine that both the pensioner and his wife are devastated by events. He's killed someone, was forced to, do they really need all this drama as well?

If someone in my family had the habit of going armed into elderly peoples homes to rob them I'd be ashamed, and appalled, not floating around with tributes to 'the boy' of 39. Loving someone doesn't mean you have to exclude them from all moral norms.

..that’s what I’ve been thinking exactly, Jaxie...what would I think , how would I feel about ‘this drama as well’ with how devastated their lives are atm...in how it’s escalating atm....which won’t lead to them feeling secure and safe in returning to their home, surely...(..if they intend to return obviously..)....taking another person’s life, well I can’t even imagine how that would feel, no matter what the circumstances...but to respect the couple as well as I’m sure residents have in their feelings and emotions...wouldn’t it be to not participate in escalating so their neighbours can return to their home as soon as possible...for all ‘healing’ to begin for all....

[bots]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..that’s what I’ve been thinking exactly, Jaxie...what would I think , how would I feel about ‘this drama as well’ with how devastated their lives are atm...in how it’s escalating atm....which won’t lead to them feeling secure and safe in returning to their home, surely...(..if they intend to return obviously..)....taking another person’s life, well I can’t even imagine how that would feel, no matter what the circumstances...but to respect the couple as well as I’m sure residents have in their feelings and emotions...wouldn’t it be to not participate in escalating so their neighbours can return to their home as soon as possible...for all ‘healing’ to begin for all....

Its not just about the couple that have been robbed though. It's about all the local residents who have probably been targeted by the same burgling group in the past and likely will in the future. The flowers could be interpreted as a message .... "we are still here, and we are not going anywhere" If I were a local resident, I wouldn't want this bunch anywhere near where I lived, and there they are putting up a big sign saying ... "WE ARE HERE" I find it all rather troubling

[user104658]

The police issue is complicated because while it would be great if these people would stop, the police can only act within the bounds of what is or isn't illegal. Placing flowers in public (for any reason) is not illegal, so the police can't force them to stop doing it.

Its like... I've had a few addicts fall asleep in my shop, and refuse to leave... and had to call the police for assistance. As its technically a licensed premises, the police CAN forcibly remove them from the shop, but as soon as they're a foot outside the door, they have to let them go - because they haven't actually broken any law. They usually end up passed out on the bench 3 meters from the door. Which isn't ideal, but at least it's out of the shop. But yeah my point is; until they break a law, the police can't do anything about it, sadly... So they're just trying to get it to blow over without incident.

Ifbthe residents are feeling harassed or threatened though, could they potentially apply for a restraining order or similar? Then the police can remove people who violate the order. We have a trespass order against 5 or 6 individuals. Although I'm unsure about how one gets a restraining order against several people / without knowing their names.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The police issue is complicated because while it would be great if these people would stop, the police can only act within the bounds of what is or isn't illegal. Placing flowers in public (for any reason) is not illegal, so the police can't force them to stop doing it.

Its like... I've had a few addicts fall asleep in my shop, and refuse to leave... and had to call the police for assistance. As its technically a licensed premises, the police CAN forcibly remove them from the shop, but as soon as they're a foot outside the door, they have to let them go - because they haven't actually broken any law. They usually end up passed out on the bench 3 meters from the door. Which isn't ideal, but at least it's out of the shop. But yeah my point is; until they break a law, the police can't do anything about it, sadly... So they're just trying to get it to blow over without incident.

Ifbthe residents are feeling harassed or threatened though, could they potentially apply for a restraining order or similar? Then the police can remove people who violate the order. We have a trespass order against 5 or 6 individuals. Although I'm unsure about how one gets a restraining order against several people / without knowing their names.

tbf they are tying the tributes to someones property, they are not laying them on the pavement.

[Cherie]

Slightly off topic but still on topic Dr Pam Spur was the Psychologist on the 5 Live phone in about this topice this morning Thought you would like to know that LT

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Slightly off topic but still on topic Dr Pam Spur was the Psychologist on the 5 Live phone in about this topice this morning Thought you would like to know that LT

Not the ...Sperminator?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Not the ...Sperminator?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

tbf they are tying the tributes to someones property, they are not laying them on the pavement.

I think (I'm not sure, though) that that would be some sort of civil issue rather than a criminal one, so the owner of the property would probably have to get some sort of cease & desist type thing before the police could act? I'm sure there are weird laws about gardens, like it's not trespassing for someone to walk through your garden to knock your door, but would be if they entered your home... But you still can tell people to leave your garden because it's not a public space, either. .

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think (I'm not sure, though) that that would be some sort of civil issue rather than a criminal one, so the owner of the property would probably have to get some sort of cease & desist type thing before the police could act? I'm sure there are weird laws about gardens, like it's not trespassing for someone to walk through your garden to knock your door, but would be if they entered your home... But you still can tell people to leave your garden because it's not a public space, either. .

I don't know where it would lie in law, but if that fence blows down its the property owners responsibility so its their property