[Alf]

Look like a couple of loitering, Trespassers to me. How was this an international news story?

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Alf

Look like a couple of loitering, Trespassers to me. How was this an international news story?

well, i am shocked that this was allowed as a international news story cause most news in USA is Always about Trump

[Marsh.]

"Trespassing"

[montblanc]

not trespassing at a starbucks

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

"Trespassing"

What else could you call somebody who refused to become a customer and then refused to leave the premises when asked?

And they were arrested for trespassing. So what else would you call it?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

What else could you call somebody who refused to become a customer and then refused to leave the premises when asked?

And they were arrested for trespassing. So what else would you call it?

A waste of police time I call it.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

A waste of police time I call it.

I agree it was that, and all because they wouldn't make a purchase and become a customer which would have given them access to Starbucks facilities.

I hear they sell sticks of gum in those places over there, why didn't they buy one of them and become a customer? or if not, why not just leave when asked too?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

I agree it was that, and all because they wouldn't make a purchase and become a customer which would have given them access to Starbucks facilities.

I hear they sell sticks of gum in those places over there, why didn't they buy one of them and become a customer? or if not, why not just leave when asked too?

Because they were being picked out for the way they look and nothing else. Others aren't treated in such a way and you're not telling me they're the first guys to go and use a shop toilet without buying anything or sit down in a public space whilst waiting for someone.

The manager making more work for themselves than is at all necessary.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

A waste of police time I call it.

Agreed. I think police have much better things to do than deal with Starbucks ****ty policies.


They need to make clear if they're going to as a rest stop or not. But they won't, because as soon they announce this, they will have to cater to every abusive use of this no purchase necessary rule... it's not a good business model, but they want to encourage as many people as possible to stop by and maybe buy something... so they keep it in the grey

If they say, well we're restricting use of our coffee shops to people who only buy our overpriced coffee... then that's going to put more of negative focus on the more capitalistic traits of the brand. .. People who follow brands think they're member of a tribe... they'd like to think they are patronizing a company that is that is socially conscience... otherwise it's just another capitalistic chain store... nothing special there

And tbf, I do like Starbucks though I rarely patronize there since I started making my own lattes. They're in it to make money though... but yeah, I've used their shops without buying anything... but this was a mall. I think stand-alone stores though, I feel compelled to buy to use up their table space, so I buy... if I didn't and someone asked me to buy something, I would. They are in the trenches just as much as I am when it comes to dealing with clients and forcing difficult policies...

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

A waste of police time I call it.

they come because it's Starbucks, where they usually eat their donuts and drink their coffee from so it was important for the police

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

they come because it's Starbucks, where they usually eat their donuts* and drink their coffee from so it was important for the police

They should name them "donots", Nicky...

[arista]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

A waste of police time I call it.

Yes Push Bike Cops
first there.

The Manager or Supervisor
on that day, should be sent to work at Head Office
or even Fired.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Alf

What else could you call somebody who refused to become a customer and then refused to leave the premises when asked?

And they were arrested for trespassing. So what else would you call it?

Basically, yeah.

Starbucks could've come back and said "Um... well, at some locations, we do have to do something about trespassers as it's a bit of a problem. And this was policy" ... and maybe that was a poor one and would create problems anyway given the mixed messaging they send about their business model (community meeting area, etc)... The outrage machine was out in full force though when they were simply just saying they were still investigating, they were being thrown under the bus by the social justice mob... so they panicked.

So they labeled it as racial profiling in the affirmative in order to make the story go away quicker. The problem is, it stirred various bees nest around social media (always social media...), and so here we are disagreeing with each other along partisan lines again...Keeping in mind, they didn't even fire the manager. She still works with them.

[Oliver_W]

It's a mountain out of a molehill all round - they didn't necessarily need to be removed by the police, but the media bumming them for it is quite unnecessary.

[Twosugars]

it all happened for the best.
anything that highlights a possibility of casual racism is raising awareness and forcing companies etc to clarify their policies
if they allow no purchase visitors then you can't eject people at random unless there're clear reasons like bad or suspicious behaviour
that was not the case here as far as we know

[Marsh.]

He can see grounds for discrimination seeing as he apologised for such.

[Ammi]

...this is quite a good, balanced article about the arrests, I think...

As a native Philadelphian and frequent Starbucks customer, I was deeply disappointed by the arrest of two black men charged with "trespassing" in a local store. I was not surprised by the subsequent call for a national boycott of America’s favorite coffee shop as the public response. The issue of black men being arrested for unfair and unjust reasons at inequitable rates is a sensitive topic in this country. It is fair to expect that people want answers, solutions, and justice. I do too.

However, I patronized Starbucks this past weekend. Let me tell you why. I remembered the company’s 2015 Race Together campaign, the in-store initiative designed to stimulate conversation, compassion, and most importantly, positive action on race in America. The campaign failed epically. The execution was awkward and uncomfortable for baristas and customers. Regardless, I applaud Starbucks for being the only company to take a public stance on the issue of racism and implement action to help address it.

I have been closely following Starbucks’ response to this crisis. Racism is an issue that isn’t going away and consumer brands will remain vulnerable to scrutiny as it relates to discrimination. There are lessons we can learn from Starbucks’ approach:

Understand how critical a sensitive tone is in messaging
I was disappointed by the company’s first response delivered via Twitter. While it was timely and did convey the obligatory apology and promise of policy review; it fell flat for a community frustrated by racial inequalities. It lacked empathy and avoided the issue of race altogether. The tweet failed to reinforce Starbucks’ mission to help make the world a better place and its desire to nurture the human spirit.

Engage the CEO publicly to demonstrate a sincere commitment to resolving the issue
Starbucks released a strong video statement featuring CEO Kevin Johnson. He expressed regret using phrases such as, "disheartening situation," "reprehensible outcome," and "deepest apologies." He accepted full responsibility for the incident and outlined specific actions the company would take to rebuild trust and revise company policies. Johnson traveled to Philadelphia and offered a personal apology to the two men arrested. He also asked for their assistance in addressing this societal issue moving forward.

Leverage positive proof points
Starbucks has a track record of authentic commitment to diversity and inclusion to reinforce. That record is supported by partnering with basketball legend Earvin "Magic" Johnson in 1998 to open 105 stores in underserved markets; making Mellody Hobson, a nationally respected financial expert, whose personal mantra is to be "color brave," a member of the board of the directors; and hiring Rosalind Brewer, an African-American former CEO of Sam’s Club, as its COO.

Overall, I am impressed with how Starbucks has handled this crisis. It has expressed regrets and accountability, met with key stakeholders, willingly participated in media interviews, and apologized to the unfairly charged men. They also implemented actions for internal change, including plans to close 8,000 stores for a day of racial bias training.

However, their work is not done. They will have to establish long-term strategies internally and externally to rebuild and maintain the trust of African-American consumers. I will continue to monitor their actions and hope they live up to the brand I believe them to be.


Read more at https://www.prweek.com/article/14626...2hkjF35pvfR.99



...I do feel also that Starbucks have ‘handled this crisis impressively’ as the article states...they’ve made all of the right movements, done all of the right things, said all of the right words etc...the more I think about it though, the more I feel..(...imo obviously...)...that prejudiced profiling was shown in asking the men to leave when no disturbance or uneasiness was being caused in them being there...these things have to be consistent as a policy...and from so many comments from ‘Starbucks frequenters’...their experiences have not been the same at all..no asking to leave if restroom requests have been made when a purchase hasn’t been made...or if they’ve been waiting without making purchases...so nothing about this incident from the off would appear consistent with company policy and staff procedures within that...I would have thought ‘trespassing’ goes beyond individual company policy anyway...as it’s a legal law break...and in a public coffee shop or premises, would there not have to be trespassing signs up, stating when/reasons a trespassing would be seen to be happening...so everyone is aware if a law is being broken and that arrests and charges could be a possibility...laws have to be clear also, surely...anyways, Starbucks appear to be addressing it all, which is a good thing....

[Ammi]

...I was thinking how different it must be in the USA to the U.K...with the police force../..the resources available etc...


...’there are two guys in the cafe and they haven’t bought anything...they’re fine though, they’re not doing anything other than sitting there waiting and chatting etc...’

...’jeez, they just asked to USE THE LOO...I said no, you have to go because we can’t be having that with no purchases...disgraceful behaviour...and they just won’t go, they said no, we’re not going’...

...’please come quickly, please come help me...with these two bathroom stalking, non disturbance making, non nuisance, guys...HELP’

..’yes of course, we’ll be there in an instant because lots of police officers on the beat as it were...and there is obviously a need for us there’....

[Ammi]

...we had a spate of burglaries in the area just before Christmas...things stolen from sheds and garages, not houses...and basically those people who had things stolen were told by the police to ‘do their own detection work’...there wasn’t the manpower to involve police...eeeeek...

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...this is quite a good, balanced article about the arrests, I think...

As a native Philadelphian and frequent Starbucks customer, I was deeply disappointed by the arrest of two black men charged with "trespassing" in a local store. I was not surprised by the subsequent call for a national boycott of America’s favorite coffee shop as the public response. The issue of black men being arrested for unfair and unjust reasons at inequitable rates is a sensitive topic in this country. It is fair to expect that people want answers, solutions, and justice. I do too.

However, I patronized Starbucks this past weekend. Let me tell you why. I remembered the company’s 2015 Race Together campaign, the in-store initiative designed to stimulate conversation, compassion, and most importantly, positive action on race in America. The campaign failed epically. The execution was awkward and uncomfortable for baristas and customers. Regardless, I applaud Starbucks for being the only company to take a public stance on the issue of racism and implement action to help address it.

I have been closely following Starbucks’ response to this crisis. Racism is an issue that isn’t going away and consumer brands will remain vulnerable to scrutiny as it relates to discrimination. There are lessons we can learn from Starbucks’ approach:

Understand how critical a sensitive tone is in messaging
I was disappointed by the company’s first response delivered via Twitter. While it was timely and did convey the obligatory apology and promise of policy review; it fell flat for a community frustrated by racial inequalities. It lacked empathy and avoided the issue of race altogether. The tweet failed to reinforce Starbucks’ mission to help make the world a better place and its desire to nurture the human spirit.

Engage the CEO publicly to demonstrate a sincere commitment to resolving the issue
Starbucks released a strong video statement featuring CEO Kevin Johnson. He expressed regret using phrases such as, "disheartening situation," "reprehensible outcome," and "deepest apologies." He accepted full responsibility for the incident and outlined specific actions the company would take to rebuild trust and revise company policies. Johnson traveled to Philadelphia and offered a personal apology to the two men arrested. He also asked for their assistance in addressing this societal issue moving forward.

Leverage positive proof points
Starbucks has a track record of authentic commitment to diversity and inclusion to reinforce. That record is supported by partnering with basketball legend Earvin "Magic" Johnson in 1998 to open 105 stores in underserved markets; making Mellody Hobson, a nationally respected financial expert, whose personal mantra is to be "color brave," a member of the board of the directors; and hiring Rosalind Brewer, an African-American former CEO of Sam’s Club, as its COO.

Overall, I am impressed with how Starbucks has handled this crisis. It has expressed regrets and accountability, met with key stakeholders, willingly participated in media interviews, and apologized to the unfairly charged men. They also implemented actions for internal change, including plans to close 8,000 stores for a day of racial bias training.

However, their work is not done. They will have to establish long-term strategies internally and externally to rebuild and maintain the trust of African-American consumers. I will continue to monitor their actions and hope they live up to the brand I believe them to be.


Read more at https://www.prweek.com/article/14626...2hkjF35pvfR.99



...I do feel also that Starbucks have ‘handled this crisis impressively’ as the article states...they’ve made all of the right movements, done all of the right things, said all of the right words etc...the more I think about it though, the more I feel..(...imo obviously...)...that prejudiced profiling was shown in asking the men to leave when no disturbance or uneasiness was being caused in them being there...these things have to be consistent as a policy...and from so many comments from ‘Starbucks frequenters’...their experiences have not been the same at all..no asking to leave if restroom requests have been made when a purchase hasn’t been made...or if they’ve been waiting without making purchases...so nothing about this incident from the off would appear consistent with company policy and staff procedures within that...I would have thought ‘trespassing’ goes beyond individual company policy anyway...as it’s a legal law break...and in a public coffee shop or premises, would there not have to be trespassing signs up, stating when/reasons a trespassing would be seen to be happening...so everyone is aware if a law is being broken and that arrests and charges could be a possibility...laws have to be clear also, surely...anyways, Starbucks appear to be addressing it all, which is a good thing....

There is no balanced argument, these two were trespassing on private property. And they can stick their race baiting victimhood culture up their arse.

[arista]

"Starbucks appear to be addressing it all, which is a good thing...."

Yes Ammi
they want to stay in business.

[user104658]

I was thinking that the first time I read this story Ammi - any time I've had to call the police at work, it's taken them hours (literally) to show up... and those have been serious incidents as otherwise I wouldn't bother at all.

Officer: "Hello, you called about a disturbance?"

Me: "Err yes there was a guy on the ground outside having the **** kicked out of him by 4 other guys... smashed bottles and bricks were involved."

Officer: "Well it looks quiet out there to me..."

Me: "I called nearly 2 hours ago "


Though they DID show up at lightning speed when there was a guy outside with a SWORD, threatening the local teenagers (who were taunting him and winding him up... bloody mental) . Van with 10 guys in full on riot gear appeared in minutes. It was awesome.

[Ammi]

...wow, the sword incident would have been so scary...but yeah, those are the sort of incidents sadly...it wouldn’t have been for a non-disturbance in the U.K. because of lack of resources...how different to the USA and this incident...

...when sip sip go became cuff cuff go...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...wow, the sword incident would have been so scary...

I'm sort of ashamed to say, I really enjoy the fights / dramatic incidents on weekend nights outside my work .

My all time favourites were two local... "well known character"... brothers who were having a full on WWE style wrestling match in the middle of the road. Like actually slamming each other on the ground! And then a little scuffle I saw between two drunk guys a couple of months ago during the snow. That one was great. They (predictably) INSTANTLY both slipped and fell in the slush, and they were wriggling about on the ground like two fighting worms. It made my night .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I was thinking that the first time I read this story Ammi - any time I've had to call the police at work, it's taken them hours (literally) to show up... and those have been serious incidents as otherwise I wouldn't bother at all.

Officer: "Hello, you called about a disturbance?"

Me: "Err yes there was a guy on the ground outside having the **** kicked out of him by 4 other guys... smashed bottles and bricks were involved."

Officer: "Well it looks quiet out there to me..."

Me: "I called nearly 2 hours ago "


Though they DID show up at lightning speed when there was a guy outside with a SWORD, threatening the local teenagers (who were taunting him and winding him up... bloody mental) . Van with 10 guys in full on riot gear appeared in minutes. It was awesome.

Bloody hell