[InOne]

Stu, Kizzy just needs to lighten up and listen to Hicks eh.

Youtube video

[Stu]

Everybody needs a bit of Bill.

[Kizzy]

I think the government are making noise but nothing will be changed, nothing will make that happen. We have a bad enough attitude to alcohol in th UK to risk exacerbating the problems that exist in our communities.
No matter what you, I or the american guy with the mullet says.

[InOne]

If you start trying to diss Bill the debate is very much lost

Night Kizzy

[Nedusa]

Looks like this thread started as a debate on whether the death penalty should be given to drug ( heroin) smugglers in certain countries but ended up as a debate on the Govts failing drugs policy and the call for decriminalisation/ legalisation of all drugs ...??

[Ammi]

..in a way it's relevant Nedusa..one of the arguments is that she 'deserves' the death penalty because of the lives that would have been devastated/possibly lost if she had succeeded in smuggling them through...a member is proving the more positives and effectiveness of decriminalisation and linking the successes where other ways have been tried...

....it may be a bit of a sidetrack but to me it is all relevant to the extreme of this punishment and why it's a completely futile punishment..as well as being inhumane....

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..in a way it's relevant Nedusa..one of the arguments is that she 'deserves' the death penalty because of the lives that would have been devastated/possibly lost if she had succeeded in smuggling them through...a member is proving the more positives and effectiveness of decriminalisation and linking the successes where other ways have been tried...

....it may be a bit of a sidetrack but to me it is all relevant to the extreme of this punishment and why it's a completely futile punishment..as well as being inhumane....

Yes I agree it has provided a bit more flesh on the debate and tried to provide some background context. I liked a post earlier from Jesus H Christ who said that if the death penalty worked as a deterrent against drug smugglers then no more drugs would have been smuggled after the first or the first few smugglers were executed. But this never happened and drug smuggling still goes on undeterred. Drug smugglers are usually desperate people carrying out this crime for a variety of reasons, some are in terrible debt some are blackmailed or threatened to carry out the offence. Having a one punishment fits all policy and making that punishment a mandatory death sentence is obsence and barbaric and has no place in the modern world.

It is wrong plain and simple and the Govts in these countries should have the full pressure of the international community brought to bear in an attempt to end this medieval practice ...!!

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Yes I agree it has provided a bit more flesh on the debate and tried to provide some background context. I liked a post earlier from Jesus H Christ who said that if the death penalty worked as a deterrent against drug smugglers then no more drugs would have been smuggled after the first or the first few smugglers were executed. But this never happened and drug smuggling still goes on undeterred. Drug smugglers are usually desperate people carrying out this crime for a variety of reasons, some are in terrible debt some are blackmailed or threatened to carry out the offence. Having a one punishment fits all policy and making that punishment a mandatory death sentence is obsence and barbaric and has no place in the modern world.

It is wrong plain and simple and the Govts in these countries should have the full pressure of the international community brought to bear in an attempt to end this medieval practice ...!!

The force is strong with this one.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..in a way it's relevant Nedusa..one of the arguments is that she 'deserves' the death penalty because of the lives that would have been devastated/possibly lost if she had succeeded in smuggling them through...a member is proving the more positives and effectiveness of decriminalisation and linking the successes where other ways have been tried...

....it may be a bit of a sidetrack but to me it is all relevant to the extreme of this punishment and why it's a completely futile punishment..as well as being inhumane....

I totally agree, also it is always likely that a sentence and an incident like this will open up the debate to not just the lady in question but as to drugs and drug laws in Countries,including the UK, overall.
Many Countries have severe sentencing for drug crimes, some Countries are moving to a different approach to drugs and even the debate is going on here in the UK, despite Govt protestations,by MPs who have looked at the issue and other groups making noises for the de-criminalisation and relaxation of laws of some drugs at least.

As you say very relevant to the original point as should more Countries decide to go down that route eventually then the sentencing in other Countries may well get relaxed too which would have affected the lady in question.

I still believe the Lady will get her sentence revoked to a prison term, I also hope that is the case, it would really shock me if that doesn't come about.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Yes I agree it has provided a bit more flesh on the debate and tried to provide some background context. I liked a post earlier from Jesus H Christ who said that if the death penalty worked as a deterrent against drug smugglers then no more drugs would have been smuggled after the first or the first few smugglers were executed. But this never happened and drug smuggling still goes on undeterred. Drug smugglers are usually desperate people carrying out this crime for a variety of reasons, some are in terrible debt some are blackmailed or threatened to carry out the offence. Having a one punishment fits all policy and making that punishment a mandatory death sentence is obsence and barbaric and has no place in the modern world.

It is wrong plain and simple and the Govts in these countries should have the full pressure of the international community brought to bear in an attempt to end this medieval practice ...!!

..I agree, if Bali are so worried about their tourist industry and feel this is a way forward then we should show them what we think of their country and it's barbaric practises....

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I totally agree, also it is always likely that a sentence and an incident like this will open up the debate to not just the lady in question but as to drugs and drug laws in Countries,including the UK, overall.
Many Countries have severe sentencing for drug crimes, some Countries are moving to a different approach to drugs and even the debate is going on here in the UK, despite Govt protestations,by MPs who have looked at the issue and other groups making noises for the de-criminalisation and relaxation of laws of some drugs at least.

As you say very relevant to the original point as should more Countries decide to go down that route eventually then the sentencing in other Countries may well get relaxed too which would have affected the lady in question.

I still believe the Lady will get her sentence revoked to a prison term, I also hope that is the case, it would really shock me if that doesn't come about.

..I hope so Joey, it's a shame the sentence was given in the first place, but I hope that proper justice is served here, which doen't mean standing someone against a wall and firing bullets into them....in what universe does that solution seem appropriate...

..good morning btw...I hope you are well.....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..in a way it's relevant Nedusa..one of the arguments is that she 'deserves' the death penalty because of the lives that would have been devastated/possibly lost if she had succeeded in smuggling them through...a member is proving the more positives and effectiveness of decriminalisation and linking the successes where other ways have been tried...

....it may be a bit of a sidetrack but to me it is all relevant to the extreme of this punishment and why it's a completely futile punishment..as well as being inhumane....

A member is not Proving anything. They have suggested that it may be considered, nothing can be proven untill it has been implamented and measured.
What successes there have been are dependant from whose stance you are looking from judging by the links stu provided.
Is the punishment also so hand wringingly tragic due to the fact she is a white woman in her 50's?
If she were a young black male would this have attracted the same level of public attention?

[Ammi]

[QUOTE=Kizzy;5813704]A member is not Proving anything. They have suggested that it may be considered, nothing can be proven untill it has been implamented and measured.
What successes there have been are dependant from whose stance you are looking from judging by the links stu provided.
Is the punishment also so hand wringingly tragic due to the fact she is a white woman in her 50's?
If she were a young black male would this have attracted the same level of public attention?[/QUOTE]

...it's not something that I would even think of...I think I'll leave that debate to you....

[Livia]

According to Amnesty International there are 20 countries which have executed people in the last year. China has apparently executed “thousands”, around 300 in the Middle East (with Iran being the Middle Eastern country with the highest execution rate), in 2011 the USA executed around 40 people with Alabama, Arizona, Ohio and Texas executing the most people. So I guess my question is this: is everyone just upset that this woman is British? Because I don't see many other threads popping up decrying the barbarity of other countries who use the death penalty.

As for the claims that death by firing squad is primitive, the Iranian Penal Code, Article 104 states that, “The size of the stone used in stoning shall not be too large to kill the convict by one or two throws and at the same time shall not be too small to be called a stone."

[Sticks]

My expectation is that she will be executed, so Bali can show they do not give in to pressure from former colonial powers trying to meddle in their own sovereign judicial affairs.

I think old white women are better than black teenagers. There, I've said it. Happy now?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

I think old white women are better than black teenagers. There, I've said it. Happy now?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Sticks

My expectation is that she will be executed, so Bali can show they do not give in to pressure from former colonial powers trying to meddle in their own sovereign judicial affairs.

Maybe they could line her up with Amanda Knox and use just one bullet to kill them both...!!!

You are clearly mercifully free from the ravages of Compassion.....!!!!!!

[Sticks]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Maybe they could line her up with Amanda Knox and use just one bullet to kill them both...!!!

You are clearly mercifully free from the ravages of Compassion.....!!!!!!

I reserve my compassion for the victims of these criminals and the relative of those whose lives have been destroyed by their criminal activity.

I reserve my compassion for the elderly people, brutally mugged and left to die, so some junkie can get another fix for that day of the drugs, the likes of this woman has distributed.

[MeMyselfAndI]

I feel sorry for the people there, having to live in such a ****ed up country.

[Ammi]

Bali Court Upholds Briton's Death Penalty




A British grandmother sentenced to death in Bali for trafficking cocaine has lost her appeal.

Lindsay Sandiford, 56, was sentenced to capital punishment in January for taking almost 5kg (10.6lb) of cocaine onto the island.

She launched an appeal but on Monday the Bali High Court ruled the original punishments was "accurate and correct" and confirmed it.

Sandiford, from Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, has 14 days to appeal to the Supreme Court.

If the Supreme Court also rejects her plea, she can seek a judicial review of the decision from the same court.

After that, only the president can grant her a reprieve.

The sentence would see her shot by a firing squad.

Sandiford was arrested in May 2012 at Bali airport when customs officers found the drugs, worth £1.6m, in her luggage.

She said she had been forced to smuggle the drugs into Bali from Thailand by a criminal gang and that the safety of her children was at risk.

She has cooperated with the police and local authorities, which has led to other arrests.

January's death sentence came as a shock because prosecutors had recommended a 15-year jail term.

Sandiford's lawyer has said the punishment is out of proportion, given she has admitted her crime, expressed regret and helped police in the investigation.

But the court ruled she had damaged Indonesia's hard-line stance on drugs as well as Bali's reputation as a tourism destination.

Three other Britons arrested in connection with the case received lighter sentences.

Julian Ponder was sentenced to six years in jail after being found guilty of possessing cocaine in his luxury Bali villa.

Rachel Dougall was sentenced to 12 months for failing to report Sandiford's crime, and Paul Beales received four years for possession of hashish but was cleared of drug trafficking.

Indonesia enforces stiff penalties for drug trafficking, but death penalty sentences are commonly commuted to long jail sentences.

[lostalex]

People forget how devastating the drug business is in 3rd world countries. It fuels gangs and mafia and all sorts of horrible much worse criminal activities than just the drugs. So it's understandable why 3rd world countries treat drugs crimes much more seriously than 1st world countries do. It's impossible for us to understand the much larger problems that the drug smuggling business creates in those countries.

I'm not saying that i support the death penalty in this particular case, i'm just saying it's hard for us to understand how HUGE a problem drug smuggling is in developing countries.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

People forget how devastating the drug business is in 3rd world countries. It fuels gangs and mafia and all sorts of horrible much worse criminal activities than just the drugs. So it's understandable why 3rd world countries treat drugs crimes much more seriously than 1st world countries do. It's impossible for us to understand the much larger problems that the drug smuggling business creates in those countries.

I'm not saying that i support the death penalty in this particular case, i'm just saying it's hard for us to understand how HUGE a problem drug smuggling is in developing countries.

They don't forget, they just don't know they are ignorant to the facts.
I have sympathy for this lady and her family, it's a sad end to this appeal.

[Nedusa]

Very touching but Compassion covers everybody, you probably know nothing of this woman's circumstances of how or why she is in the situation she is in. She may have been duped,threatened,blackmailed or framed.........

so where is your compassion for this woman, are you really happy to sit there in your self appointed role as Armchair Judge and let this woman be executed to satisfy your high handed uncaring uncompassionate sense of justice.

[Sticks]

Have you ever been mugged in the street and had an unknown substance sprayed in your face?

That happened to me in 1994

[lostalex]

Am I the only one that REALLY wants to hear the story behind being "sprayed with an unknown substance in my face in 1994" ?

Don't leave us hanging Sticks, tell us the story.