[Niamh.]

Lets try to keep this civil please and not get insulting with eachother

[user104658]

I do agree with Livia here; Bond can't be black unless it's a(nother) reboot. It's not that a spy can't be black, or that you couldn't make a film exactly LIKE a bond film with a black Bond, it's just that you couldn't have a black actor take on the currently established role of Bond. Because, as Livia says, it would alter the character's history, make past situations impossible, and therefore break the canon.

I had a similar discussion over in the movies forum about "black Hermione". Black Hermione in a new interpretation of the source material, i.e. a new play based on the first book and onwards, would in my opinion be 100% fine. Suddenly casting a black Hermione in a direct sequel to the already established interpretation does not work. Because that Hermione is not black.

I used the current CW series of The Flash as an example here too: Wally West has just appeared in the series, an established character from the comics, and in the show he is black whereas in others he's been white. There's no problem there at all, because this is his FIRST appearence in THIS interpretation of The Flash, he is a character based on the source character, they are not necessarily the same character... in exactly the same way that the "Smallville" Green Arrow and the "Arrow" Green Arrow are based on the same source material but are clearly not the same character.

Other examples, and sorry for all the superhero ****

Toby maguire and Andrew Garfield (and now Tom Holland) are NOT the same Spider-man; they could have cast anyone... each is a new interpretation.

Terence Howard and Don Cheadle ARE the same War Machine. He is established. And so changing the actor to a Japanese guy in Iron Man 2 would have been ludicrous; he had to "stay black".

In other words... I'm a bit of a stickler for fiction and canon, and for me, each interpretation of a character becomes as if they are that human being. Slight appearance changes / actor changes are one thing, changing something so fundamental that it would change the character's entire backstory is another thing. Tl;dr - for me, the established Bond can no more change his race than you or I can, in order for me to consider it "good fiction", and not break my immersion. The established Bond is who he is.

Now... all of that said... I wouldn't particularly have any problem with them rebooting Bond again after Daniel Craig leaves, and casting a black Bond with a different back story, and a different set of "old missions" under his belt as experience. I think the reboot worked well this time around - for those not in the know... Connery all the way up to Brosnan were all "the same Bond" - Daniel Craig is NOT that same Bond, but an entirely new character.

Having "sets" of three or four movies each with a completely "fresh" Bond would work fairly well (a reboot with each actor change), IMO. But they would have to make that clear. A new origin story for a new Bond.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I do agree with Livia here;

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I do agree with Livia here; Bond can't be black unless it's a(nother) reboot. It's not that a spy can't be black, or that you couldn't make a film exactly LIKE a bond film with a black Bond, it's just that you couldn't have a black actor take on the currently established role of Bond. Because, as Livia says, it would alter the character's history, make past situations impossible, and therefore break the canon.

I had a similar discussion over in the movies forum about "black Hermione". Black Hermione in a new interpretation of the source material, i.e. a new play based on the first book and onwards, would in my opinion be 100% fine. Suddenly casting a black Hermione in a direct sequel to the already established interpretation does not work. Because that Hermione is not black.

I used the current CW series of The Flash as an example here too: Wally West has just appeared in the series, an established character from the comics, and in the show he is black whereas in others he's been white. There's no problem there at all, because this is his FIRST appearence in THIS interpretation of The Flash, he is a character based on the source character, they are not necessarily the same character... in exactly the same way that the "Smallville" Green Arrow and the "Arrow" Green Arrow are based on the same source material but are clearly not the same character.

Other examples, and sorry for all the superhero ****

Toby maguire and Andrew Garfield (and now Tom Holland) are NOT the same Spider-man; they could have cast anyone... each is a new interpretation.

Terence Howard and Don Cheadle ARE the same War Machine. He is established. And so changing the actor to a Japanese guy in Iron Man 2 would have been ludicrous; he had to "stay black".

In other words... I'm a bit of a stickler for fiction and canon, and for me, each interpretation of a character becomes as if they are that human being. Slight appearance changes / actor changes are one thing, changing something so fundamental that it would change the character's entire backstory is another thing. Tl;dr - for me, the established Bond can no more change his race than you or I can, in order for me to consider it "good fiction", and not break my immersion. The established Bond is who he is.

Now... all of that said... I wouldn't particularly have any problem with them rebooting Bond again after Daniel Craig leaves, and casting a black Bond with a different back story, and a different set of "old missions" under his belt as experience. I think the reboot worked well this time around - for those not in the know... Connery all the way up to Brosnan were all "the same Bond" - Daniel Craig is NOT that same Bond, but an entirely new character.

Having "sets" of three or four movies each with a completely "fresh" Bond would work fairly well (a reboot with each actor change), IMO. But they would have to make that clear. A new origin story for a new Bond.

: clap1:

At the risk of now being written off as a T,S, 'groupie' - What truly wonderful COMMON FECKING SENSE.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Too many white people's opinions here from white people's POVs.

[Livia]

Thanks TS... Even I was beginning to think I'm a racist!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Thanks TS... Even I was beginning to think I'm a racist!

I like to keep my fiction and my politics separate basically... I love both but not at the same time. THAT is the important thing. I don't give a stuff who or what they cast or who feels offended or hurt or left out by it along the way... the escapism is more important when it comes to entertainment. Big changes break the 4th wall, they remind you that it's "just a story, just people playing pretend". And that's no ****ing fun

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

haha yeah i saw you mention it alright What was he like in person?

He was expensively dressed, smelt gorgeous and had something of the animal about him. Every woman there would have done tricks for him LOL... I only got to speak to him briefly but I definitely would have if he'd asked.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I like to keep my fiction and my politics separate basically... I love both but not at the same time. THAT is the important thing. I don't give a stuff who or what they cast or who feels offended or hurt or left out by it along the way... the escapism is more important when it comes to entertainment. Big changes break the 4th wall, they remind you that it's "just a story, just people playing pretend". And that's no ****ing fun

One of those rare occasions when I agree completely. I'm sure I can feel a disturbance in The Force.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

He was expensively dressed, smelt gorgeous and had something of the animal about him. Every woman there would have done tricks for him LOL... I only got to speak to him briefly but I definitely would have if he'd asked.



One of those rare occasions when I agree completely. I'm sure I can feel a disturbance in The Force.

mmmmmmm

[Tom4784]

Bond's race isn't an important part of his character in the films, they are in the books but in the films it really isn't important at all. Like I said before, the Bond Books and films are different entities at this point. A lot of the actors who have played Bond really wouldn't have fit the book version if they were to do a religious adaption of them. From what I know of the character, it's only really Sean Connery and Daniel Craig's (aside from the hair) interpretations that come close to what Ian Fleming envisioned in terms of Bond's character.

James Bond in the films is like Doctor Who, he doesn't have a set personality or appearance beyond the basics because so many people have played them at this point. As long as the actor is male, can do a British accent and is capable of being charming then that's all you need really.

[the truth]

maybe the irish and welsh should boycott the brits as they didn't win anything last year

[Livia]

Originally Posted by the truth

maybe the irish and welsh should boycott the brits as they didn't win anything last year

I've never won an award, I'm boycotting everything.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

I've never won an award, I'm boycotting everything.

same here, theyre a bunch on truth-ists

[Livia]

Originally Posted by the truth

same here, theyre a bunch on truth-ists

What makes me smile, going back to the Oscars, is... it's such an awfully smug opportunity for people in show business to pat each other on the back and discuss how brilliant they all are. It's a lovey-fest that means nothing, really.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

maybe the irish and welsh should boycott the brits as they didn't win anything last year

Ireland isn't part of Britain so we're alright, we do have a couple in for an Oscar though

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

maybe the irish and welsh should boycott the brits as they didn't win anything last year

Straw man argument.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Straw man argument.

hypocrite

[Livia]

I love you Dezzy... even when you're wrong :-)

xx

[the truth]

its the same few dozen multi multi millionaire over-rated luvvies every year......like theres no other actors in the world with the monolithic talent of winslet, redmayne, Mirren etc the irony is movies are getting worse every year due to a chronic lack of writers and unoriginal formulaic film school directors ....bring back Hitchcock all is forgiven

[King Gizzard]

He's too cool for ****ty Cheesy James Bond anyway

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Nathan

He's too cool for ****ty Cheesy James Bond anyway

I agree. Personally I think Idris is a big enough name to sell the films on his name alone, but the hell with all that his ethnicity is wrong. I hope he campaigns for it and seriously puts himself forward as he has to be, in terms of ability and experience, one of the best to apply. Then I look forward to the backlash.

[Livia]

If they continued the Blade series with a white actor playing Wesley Snipes character... I'd have a problem with that too. Backstory.... like TS says.

[Kizzy]

After the burning car incident are there no votes for foxx?.....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

After the burning car incident are there no votes for foxx?.....

I never find Jamie Foxx likeable on screen for some reason, i don't know why. I watched that interview with him about having saved the man from the car and he's alot more likeable when he isn't acting

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I never find Jamie Foxx likeable on screen for some reason, i don't know why. I watched that interview with him about having saved the man from the car and he's alot more likeable when he isn't acting

I feel the same about james bond, always comes across as arrogant and sexist to me... maybe I'd prefer him if he were black