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Tom4784 · 19-02-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

Yeah but Nintendo allows this. All with the quality seal B.S.

As for top quality Xbox & PS3 games that don't involve major franchise characters?

Mass Effect, Bioshock, Infamous, Crackdown, Dead Rising, Just Cause, LittleBigPlanet, Assasins Creed, Borderlands, Left 4 Dead, Dragon Age, Saints Row and Gears Of War are all brand new gaming franchises that have started this generation.

Can the Wii even come close to that? What reputable new gaming franchises has it established for the gamer this generation? Very few. It's simply a dumping ground for the same old characters and third parties who are making a quick buck off generic casual games.

Developers are not that interested in developing serious games for the Wii. And why would they be? If I had a game idea I would take it to the Xbox or PS3 where I had the hardware to express it and the owners to buy it. All this because while Nintendo were trying to get my nan to play games, they forgot about the gamers.

The Wii sells because of it's casual appeal. But Nintendo really need to rely on more than the same old characters to sell the games. If they didn't, the GameCube wouldn't have bombed.

Fair points but my main point is that the Wii isn't a crap console, It's first party franchises are pretty much second to none and the hardcore games that are released on the wii are just as good as something you'd find on the others. It's got the crappy casual games yes but to dismiss the good games on the console because of them is ignorance.

Also all those games on that list are third party games, name me first party games since that was my point in the last post. Since we're making lists here's a list of Wii games that are Critically acclaimed/Non casual/Hardcore games.

Mario Galaxy
New Super Mario Bros
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Metroid Prime: Echoes
Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
No More Heroes 1+2 (New IP)
Silent Hill (The ps2 and PSP versions are downgraded ports of the wii version)
Dead Space: Extraction
Tatsunoko Vs Capcom (New IP)
Punch Out
Mad World (New IP)
The Conduit (New IP)

That's just from memory, If I were to research it I could add many more. The strength of the Wii and Nintendo consoles does lie in the first party games but the thing is 9 times out of 10 Nintendo brand games are brilliant and I can't say for sure but that mark of quality only extends to the first party games if I remember correctly.

The Wii's not perfect but it isn't crap either, it's the one console that has the most potential for improvement and I think it's sequel could blow the PS4 and Xbox 720 (or whatever it will be called) out the water if they address some of the big problems with the Wii.

The thing is as well is that Microsoft and Sony rely on their first party franchises too, They wouldn't dare release a console nowadays without Halo (Halo 3, ODST, Halo Wars and Halo Reach so far this generation)/Gran Turismo/God of War/Uncharted. Yes, these are new franchises but when Sony and Microsoft begin to match Nintendo's years in the game industry they'll come to rely on these franchises as much as Nintendo relies on their's. It's all about brand familiarity. At the end of the day there's never been a bad Gran Turismo/Halo/GOW/Mario/Zelda so as long as the quality keeps up who cares?

It's my opinion anyway, no such thing as a bad console only bad games for it. (with the exception of the N-Gage......)

Tom4784 · 19-02-2010, 09:07 PM

I adored Streets of Rage, if it wasn't destined to be a ***** up I'd say bring back the franchise.

andyman · 19-02-2010, 09:12 PM

The GameGear with Sonic and its colour screen.. But many still bought the GameBoy with its grey screen with dots for graphics..

Stu · 19-02-2010, 09:15 PM

I'm not talking soley about first party games though, which is why I named the games I named. Who cares who made the game? I certainly don't. I could go on litteraly forever naming new third party IP's for both the Xbox and the PlayStation. I'm not totally dismissing the Wii but they have left gamers like me out in the dust. I don't like casual games and to be quiet honest I couldn't give a flying fuck about Mario, Zelda and Metroid either.

So where does that leave people like me? It leaves us not wanting to buy a Wii. And the fact that Nintendo made the console for dirt cheap to maximise profits at the expense of next generation graphics does not help either. Third party developers simply have no interest in bringing most of their big budget ideas to the Wii now. Quiet rightly. I would say in this respect, for people like me, the Wii is definately a bad console.

And to be honest I don't think Microsoft and Sony will be relying on old hat too much next time around considering the depth of classics established this generation. Halo is finishing it's story arc and Metal Gear Solid has already done likewise. In those games place for killer app priority will come the franchises christened this generation.

Really, when comparing depth of catalogue, the Wii absoloutely cannot compete. If you like Nintendo's classics fair enough, but as great as those games are, surely you must agree that Nintendo should put more effort - real effort - into developing new franchises for the gamers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyman

The GameGear with Sonic and its colour screen.. But many still bought the GameBoy with its grey screen with dots for graphics..

Word. The GameGear was an underappreciated piece of gear. Pun intended. Chewed through batery like nuts but if you got one of those converter thingys you could play Master System games on the go.

Tom4784 · 19-02-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

I'm not talking soley about first party games though, which is why I named the games I named. Who cares who made the game? I certainly don't. I could go on litteraly forever naming new third party IP's for both the Xbox and the PlayStation. I'm not totally dismissing the Wii but they have left gamers like me out in the dust. I don't like casual games and to be quiet honest I couldn't give a flying fuck about Mario, Zelda and Metroid either.

So where does that leave people like me? It leaves us not wanting to buy a Wii. And the fact that Nintendo made the console for dirt cheap to maximise profits at the expense of next generation graphics does not help either. Third party developers simply have no interest in bringing most of their big budget ideas to the Wii now. Quiet rightly. I would say in this respect, for people like me, the Wii is definately a bad console.

And to be honest I don't think Microsoft and Sony will be relying on old hat too much next time around considering the depth of classics established this generation. Halo is finishing it's story arc and Metal Gear Solid has already done likewise. In those games place for killer app priority will come the franchises christened this generation.

Really, when comparing depth of catalogue, the Wii absoloutely cannot compete. If you like Nintendo's classics fair enough, but as great as those games are, surely you must agree that Nintendo should put more effort - real effort - into developing new franchises for the gamers?

Word. The GameGear was an underappreciated piece of gear. Pun intended. Chewed through batery like nuts but if you got one of those converter thingys you could play Master System games on the go.

Nintendo DO make new First Party IP's though they just never got as much media coverage as the classics. The one I can think of from the top of my head is 'A Boy and his Blob' which was a critically acclaimed puzzle/platformer. There's definately been others this generation but I can't think of them which is probably partly Nintendo's fault for not pushing them as much. I do agree that Nintendo's own brand relies around the classics but as long as they keep up the quality it's all fair really. Every console needs it's killer apps it's just that Nintendo's main franchises are already well established in comparision to the Playstation and Xbox that have always relied more on other developers in the past although they've got a handful of their own franchises now.

The Wii is gonna end up balancing out I think eventually, the casual market won't last forever and I can see their focus shifting towards proper games, Look at the DS, it still has a lot of Casual games but there's just as many proper games to even it out now.

Tom4784 · 19-02-2010, 09:28 PM

I never had a game gear, I had a Megadrive though.

Stu · 19-02-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Nintendo DO make new First Party IP's though they just never got as much media coverage as the classics. The one I can think of from the top of my head is 'A Boy and his Blob' which was a critically acclaimed puzzle/platformer. There's definately been others this generation but I can't think of them which is probably partly Nintendo's fault for not pushing them as much. I do agree that Nintendo's own brand relies around the classics but as long as they keep up the quality it's all fair really. Every console needs it's killer apps it's just that Nintendo's main franchises are already well established in comparision to the Playstation and Xbox that have always relied more on other developers in the past although they've got a handful of their own franchises now.

The Wii is gonna end up balancing out I think eventually, the casual market won't last forever and I can see their focus shifting towards proper games, Look at the DS, it still has a lot of Casual games but there's just as many proper games to even it out now.

The Wii won't catch up. It's hardware is simply too dated. It was dated in 2005 when it was conceived. It's just riddiculous now. Whilst I agree that graphics don't make the games, these games need capable systems to be even considered for production in the first place. If I approach a publisher with a development team who has an amazing action game idea right now, chances are it's heading to the Xbox or Playstation. Not only is it where the hardware is, but it's where the players are.

Aleination. Nintendo have excelled in this area this generation.

Obviously the DS is a whole different kettle of fish as handheld games are approached in a much different way, which is pretty ironic really. When you look back through history Nintendo have always had the weakest and most simplistic handhelds but they have always excelled.

Tom4784 · 19-02-2010, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

The Wii won't catch up. It's hardware is simply too dated. It was dated in 2005 when it was conceived. It's just riddiculous now. Whilst I agree that graphics don't make the games, these games need capable systems to be even considered for production in the first place. If I approach a publisher with a development team who has an amazing action game idea right now, chances are it's heading to the Xbox or Playstation. Not only is it where the hardware is, but it's where the players are.

Aleination. Nintendo have excelled in this area this generation.

Obviously the DS is a whole different kettle of fish as handheld games are approached in a much different way, which is pretty ironic really. When you look back through history Nintendo have always had the weakest and most simplistic handhelds but they have always excelled.

I dunno, if graphics mattered then the Xbox or Gamecube would have came out on top last time since the Ps2 was REALLY dated in comparision. With the right games they can pull it back. Look at the Ps3, it did abysmal for it's first two or so years but now they've got the developer support back and they're making a hell of a comeback. The Wii could make a recovery in the Gamer's eyes it just needs the right games and the right focus.

Stu · 19-02-2010, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I dunno, if graphics mattered then the Xbox or Gamecube would have came out on top last time since the Ps2 was REALLY dated in comparision. With the right games they can pull it back. Look at the Ps3, it did abysmal for it's first two or so years but now they've got the developer support back and they're making a hell of a comeback. The Wii could make a recovery in the Gamer's eyes it just needs the right games and the right focus.

Come on. The gulf wasn't that big though. The Wii's graphics gulf is huge. It's format medium is DVD! No hard drive either, which is essential these days. Plus the PlayStation 2 also had the advantage of having a stupidly big demographic to make games for. It's not just that the Wii's hardware is bad for making, say, great action games, it's that the majority of the action gamers are probably going to be found on the other two systems.

Tom4784 · 19-02-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

Come on. The gulf wasn't that big though. The Wii's graphics gulf is huge. It's format medium is DVD! No hard drive either, which is essential these days. Plus the PlayStation 2 also had the advantage of having a stupidly big demographic to make games for. It's not just that the Wii's hardware is bad for making, say, great action games, it's that the majority of the action gamers are probably going to be found on the other two systems.

Fair point, Well I think it can at least make a step in the right direction for the Wii2, it's got the strength of a large install base behind it to make a start.

Stu · 19-02-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Fair point, Well I think it can at least make a step in the right direction for the Wii2, it's got the strength of a large install base behind it to make a start.

They paid so much attention to the casual market that they forgot the hardcore gamers. Hardcore being a misleading title consider those 'hardcore gamers' have bought tens of millions of Xbox and PlayStation's between them.

If Nintendo can appeal to the Xbox and PlayStation crowd next time around, they could rule the world. That said I highly doubt it will happen. Nintendo have their market now and they are making a riddiculous amount of money off it. I can't see them ever being associated with being the 'mans' console, so to speak [Horrible generalisations here, I know. Nature of arguing this beast].

Tom4784 · 19-02-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

They paid so much attention to the casual market that they forgot the hardcore gamers. Hardcore being a misleading title consider those 'hardcore gamers' have bought tens of millions of Xbox and PlayStation's between them.

If Nintendo can appeal to the Xbox and PlayStation crowd next time around, they could rule the world. That said I highly doubt it will happen. Nintendo have their market now and they are making a riddiculous amount of money off it. I can't see them ever being associated with being the 'mans' console, so to speak [Horrible generalisations here, I know. Nature of arguing this beast].

I think they could do what they do with the DS though and even it out eventually.

and back to the original topic I bought some games today, I had Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth and CSI for the DS. I was gonna get an Xbox Game but I decided to wait for FFXIII as it'd get sidelined by the time that comes out anyway.

andyman · 20-02-2010, 11:27 AM

The Nintendo Wii is great for those that hate games..

That is my great view on the matter.

Today I will be going into town, in the middle, to buy Test Drive Unlimited for the Xbox 360, only £10.. Happy times.

Tom4784 · 20-02-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyman

The Nintendo Wii is great for those that hate games..

That is my great view on the matter.

That's true if you choose to ignore a good chunk of it's library.

Enid · 24-02-2010, 08:57 PM

Napoleon: Total War looks brilliant. I'm not really a fan of the genre but I'll give it a go. My boyfriend has had two of the previous games and wants this one.

Tom4784 · 24-02-2010, 09:02 PM

I'm finishing off Phoenix Wright Trials and Tribulations so I can get cracking with the Miles Edgeworth game. I haven't been playing my Xbox much recently but I'm waiting for FFXIII.

BB_Eye · 27-02-2010, 03:25 PM

I've been playing Sega All-Stars Racing since yesterday and I'm not ashamed to admit it's brilliant. Okay, it's far from perfect. Nobody cares about Big the Cat and Billy Hatcher. Couldn't we have had Ristar and the car from OutRun instead? Also the mission mode is a bit naff.

Otherwise though, an excellent kart racer that gives Mario Kart a run for its money.

Tom4784 · 27-02-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

I've been playing Sega All-Stars Racing since yesterday and I'm not ashamed to admit it's brilliant. Okay, it's far from perfect. Nobody cares about Big the Cat and Billy Hatcher. Couldn't we have had Ristar and the car from OutRun instead? Also the mission mode is a bit naff.

Otherwise though, an excellent kart racer that gives Mario Kart a run for its money.

The demo was quite fun, I'll probably buy it when it becomes cheaper.

I'm playing through Apollo Justice at the moment, then I'm gonna start the Miles Edgeworth game and then I should be done with both in time for FFXIII.