[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

No..... Obama is nothing like Bush... Bush was a cretin, stupidest man ever to hold the office of President of the United States of America. Starting war after war after war and sacrificing thousands of American servicemen not to mention the hundreds of thousands of innocent victims was never the actions of a sensible, rational president .

Obama at least tries to pursue a policy of least use of force or force as a LAST resort not a first resort like Bush. I agree Obama has not handled the present crises from the front but you could argue Syrian disarmament of chemical weapons has resulted from the threat of use of force.

This has to make The US ultimately look as if they have achieved Syria's abandonment of Chemical weapons as a personal triumph for the current US administration.

I think just because Bush found it difficult speaking to people and got muddled at times, that doesn't make him stupid. He became the president, I really don't believe a cretin could do such a thing.

Originally Posted by the truth

1) re guantanamo bay, progress has been slow. But the place that expanded under bush for years with water boarding, now the number of inmtes has fallen to 169 and obama has been opposed by the republicans evert single step of the way
2) re syria Obama has been decisive though what could or should have been done by him the UN and the international community before the atrocities is a major question. But obama demanded action, he demanded a list of weapons, he got kerry on the case and kerry has risen to the task, obama persuaded the ruskies to sort it out too, he also demanded UN action. Where is your blame for the rest of the world?
3) whether the ruskies are doing for the good of america is utterly irrelevant, all that matters is that putin is acting thanks in part to obama.
4) As big a warmonger as bush? please back up that monolithic nonsense? the 1 difference is their decisiveness? yes decisiveness to go into massive bloodbath wars over lies where vast numbers are destroyed for illogical dishonest reasons? creating more terorism and more carnage for innocent people. if thats decisiveness , give me ponderous, thoughful , patient, cautious thanks very much.

Bush invaded a nation for no logical reason and left 100s of thousands of innocents dead, some estimate a million. for what? the premise of this 10 year carnage was based on pure lies. meanwhile bush let the actual people responsible for 911 off the hook? my how decisive? what has obama done that comes within a million miles of this atrocity?
5) as for the eqyptian situation. firstly Im not going to defend the US on this. their hand picking of puppet regimes has gone on across the middle east for decades. its all part of their empire. but you want to lay all that at obamas door for this? really? one glorious day the US will finally take all of their 1000 army camps worldwide and go home. until such a day the us president has to play the hand he is dealt. I dont think its conclusive that obama deliberately funded a military coup either , though the us governments have been doing this for a very long time. morsi seemed to be a diaster. but it was a democratic disaster. was the military funding sent to embolden him or to weaken him?

I'll go through your points in reverse order.


5. I don't fully understand what you're asking me. I feel that no one wanted egypt to become a muslim state, and it seem like it was heading that way, I think that is why the US had a problem with it.

And I think the world is a safer place with american army bases dotted around it, I believe we'd be speaking chinese or russian or forced to wear hijaabs without them keeping other countries in check.

4. Ok I did a bit a research and Obama has entered the US into more conflicts than Bush, also in the year 2010 & 2011 Obama spent more on the military that any other president before him. (If you are interested in disputing this, go look it up, it's not just my opinion, it's based in facts, Obama is as big a warmonger as Bush was).

He isn't a peaceful person at all, in fact the US has been involved in war every day of his presidency.

And these drone attack that he carries out in Pakistan, it's creating a steady amount of recruits for these terror organisation that attack america. He's just creating a bigger problem for others to deal with after he's gone.

3. Just because you think the russians motivation for acting are irrelevant, that doesn't make it so.

2. You say Obama demanded this and that. If he had the power to make demands of people, he would have got his way and bombed syria. Instead he had to back down and look for a way out of the conflict.

1. Isn't the real reason that these are dangerous people who hate america and there is no safe way to deal with them, so the best thing to do is ignore their human rights and keep them locked up, that way more americans (and innocent people throughout the world) are protected, but if you want to credit republicans with that, it's fine by me.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=GypsyGoth;6383838]I think just because Bush found it difficult speaking to people and got muddled at times, that doesn't make him stupid. He became the president, I really don't believe a cretin could do such a thing.



I'll go through your points one by one. I will put my responses in capitals so as to differentiate from your quotes, sorry if it looks like shouting.


5. I don't fully understand what you're asking me. I feel that no one wanted egypt to become a muslim state, and it seem like it was heading that way, I think that is why the US had a problem with it.

IM ASKING DO YOU BLAME OBAMA FOR THE STATE OF EGYPT? IF SO WHY?

And I think the world is a safer place with american army bases dotted around it, I believe we'd be speaking chinese or russian or forced to wear hijaabs without them keeping other countries in check.

YOU SEEM TO CRITICIZE US IMPERIALISM BUT HERE YOU SEEM TO COMMEND IT?

4. Ok I did a bit a research and Obama has entered the US into more conflicts than Bush, also in the year 2010 & 2011 Obama spent more on the military that any other president before him. (If you are interested in disputing this, go look it up, it's not just my opinion, it's based in facts, Obama is as big a warmonger as Bush was).

INTO MORE CONFLICTS? SO WHAT? ITS NOT THE NUMBER OF CONFLICTS, ITS THE RIGHTS AND THE WRONGS, THE RESULTS AND THE NUMBERS KILLED OR INJURED THAT MATTER SURELY?

He isn't a peaceful person at all, in fact the US has been involved in war every day of his presidency.

AS WITH ALL PRESIDENTS. THE 2 MAIN WARS WERE SET IN MOTION SEVERAL YEARS EARLIER. HE HAS AT LEAST ENDED ONE AND BROUGHT DEADLINES TO THE OTHER. HIS OTHER INCURSIONS WERE IN STRONGER COALITIONS AND SHORT BATTLES. HE HAS FOUND FAR BETTER RELATIONS WITH COALITION PARTNERS THAN BUSH. HE IS AN INFINITELY BETTER COLLABORATOR.

And these drone attack that he carries out in Pakistan, it's creating a steady amount of recruits for these terror organisation that attack america. He's just creating a bigger problem for others to deal with after he's gone.

EASY TO SAY BUT HE SAYS THIS IS THE PRICE THAT NEEDED TO BE PAID TO A) AVOID INVADING NATIONS WITH BOMBS AND MISSILES AND VAST KILLINGS OF INNOCENTS. THIS METHOD IS ENORMOUSLY MORE ACCURATE AND THE DEATH TOLL IS VASTLY SMALLER. THE NUMBER OF SOLDIERS AND CITIZENS WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED UNDER OBAMAS RULE IS MUCH SMALLER THAN UNDER BUSH.

3. Just because you think the russians motivation for acting are irrelevant, that doesn't make it so.

YES IT DOES, THE RESULTS ARE ALL THAT MATTER.

2. You say Obama demanded this and that. If he had the power to make demands of people, he would have got his way and bombed syria. Instead he had to back down and look for a way out of the conflict.

WRONG. TOTALLY WRONG. HE HAD TO MAKE A REASONABLE REALISTIC THREAT. THE FACT HE ACTED SO QUICKLY AND WITH KERRY AND CO SO EFFECTIVELY HAS SEEN THIS MOVE FORWARD QUICKLY. THE UN HAVE NOW PROVED THIS WAS A CHEMICAL ATTACK. THE WORLD IS NOW TOTALLY AGAINST ASSAD AND IN SUPPORT OF OBAMA AND OF THE DEAL HE HAS WITH THE RUSSIANS. HE HAS SMARTLY AND PATIENTLY WON THE PUBLIC SUPPORT THROUGH PATIENCE , COMMON SENSE AND THOUGHTFULNESS.
COMPARE THAT TO THE HYSTERICAL LIES AND CARNAGE OF BUSH AND BLIAR?


1. Isn't the real reason that these are dangerous people who hate america and there is no safe way to deal with them, so the best thing to do is ignore their human rights and keep them locked up, that way more americans (and innocent people throughout the world) are protected, but if you want to credit republicans with that, it's fine by me.

THIS POINT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL. YOU CRITICIZED GUANTANAMO BAY. OBAMA HAS REDUCED THE POPULATION BY 50%. WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT REPUBLICANS V DEMOCRATS?



I WAITED 24 HOURS FOR YOUR RESPONSES AND I HAVE TO SAY IM DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED IN THEM?

CAN YOU PLEASE CLARIFY WHAT YOU WANTED OBAMA TO DO IN THESE SITUATIONS?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I think just because Bush found it difficult speaking to people and got muddled at times, that doesn't make him stupid. He became the president, I really don't believe a cretin could do such a thing.



I'll go through your points in reverse order.


5. I don't fully understand what you're asking me. I feel that no one wanted egypt to become a muslim state, and it seem like it was heading that way, I think that is why the US had a problem with it.

And I think the world is a safer place with american army bases dotted around it, I believe we'd be speaking chinese or russian or forced to wear hijaabs without them keeping other countries in check.

4. Ok I did a bit a research and Obama has entered the US into more conflicts than Bush, also in the year 2010 & 2011 Obama spent more on the military that any other president before him. (If you are interested in disputing this, go look it up, it's not just my opinion, it's based in facts, Obama is as big a warmonger as Bush was).

He isn't a peaceful person at all, in fact the US has been involved in war every day of his presidency.

And these drone attack that he carries out in Pakistan, it's creating a steady amount of recruits for these terror organisation that attack america. He's just creating a bigger problem for others to deal with after he's gone.

3. Just because you think the russians motivation for acting are irrelevant, that doesn't make it so.

2. You say Obama demanded this and that. If he had the power to make demands of people, he would have got his way and bombed syria. Instead he had to back down and look for a way out of the conflict.

1. Isn't the real reason that these are dangerous people who hate america and there is no safe way to deal with them, so the best thing to do is ignore their human rights and keep them locked up, that way more americans (and innocent people throughout the world) are protected, but if you want to credit republicans with that, it's fine by me.

The man (Bush) should never have been President, was never clever enough to hold that office and only did so because of his father. He received the Republican nomination through a mixture of coercement,blackmail and lies.He had no real aspirations to lead his country , the guy was a failed businessman a drunk, a womaniser,a liar ,drug taker and a cheat. Really good presidential qualities...!!!

But the choices he made in office completely vindicated his reputation, treating the middle east as a large computer game where he could take on all comers, his reaction to 911 ??? his bombing of Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo Bay....outrageous... the actions of a moron told what to do by everybody around him as his grasp on the subtleties of Middle east politics were as non existent as were his florida votes in the 2004 US Presidential elections.

All in all one of the worst if not the worst US Presidents in History, a shameful period for America, as he left America a much worse place than he found it.

[arista]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...oms-evacuation

The Rebals leave after losing


Reported on Ch4News tonight

[Nedusa]

The rebels are losing because the west has come to it's senses and after the UK govt decided not to get involved militarily the writing was on the wall.

But more importantly when it was disclosed to the world that the US was covertly supporting the very terrorists it had been fighting in Iraq & Libya ie (Al-Queda) the shock and indignation from vast swathes of the American middle classes, this support had to stop.

It has since stopped and the remaining FSA and other terrorists factions have no chance of gaining any sort of victory and in fact will soon be expelled from all Syrian territory.

Also Assad has been receiving additional help from Russia in the form of Arms and logistical support since Putin is furious with the US for it's actions in precipitating the Ukraine crisis.