[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Members being the operative word.The people who put Corbyn in power.The 'moderate' Labour voters however are in favour of airstrikes.

And the 75% are what?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

iain watsonVerified account
‏@iainjwatson
But told 'confusion' at shadow cabinet now over whether free vote can be accompanied by a statement saying party as a whole opposes bombing

Yes that seems fairly contradictory

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And the 75% are what?

Corbynisters

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Members being the operative word.The people who put Corbyn in power.The 'moderate' Labour voters however are in favour of airstrikes.

I'm suprised Corbyn hasn't proposed bombing the UK instead.

[arista]

SkyNewsHD
just said they get a free vote
but his cabinet must not talk about it?

[joeysteele]

Nothing contradictory at all, he has given a free vote, full credit to him for that and also the request for a the length of the debate on same too.

He is right, the Labour movement,Unions and membership are against action overall.
Indeed so are the Parliamentary MPs, it is expected up to 80 'could', not 'will', vote for action that still leaves 150 Labour MPs opposed to action.

How interesting it would be if Cameron now gave a free vote to his MPs,if he dared to that is.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Corbynisters

The 75% of Labour supporters polled are Corbynistas?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The 75% of Labour supporters polled are Corbynistas?

He's e-mailed Labour party members,The same people who voted for him to be leader.They are obviously going to agree with him.

'A sample of this weekend’s consultation of Labour Party members, carried out in response to an email from Jeremy Corbyn'


Hardly an independent poll is it?

YouGov poll vs Corbyn e-mailing the people who elected him hmmm....

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Nothing contradictory at all, he has given a free vote, full credit to him for that and also the request for a the length of the debate on same too.et

He is right, the Labour movement,Unions and membership are against action overall.
Indeed so are the Parliamentary MPs, it is expected up to 80 'could', not 'will', vote for action that still leaves 150 Labour MPs opposed to action.

How interesting it would be if Cameron now gave a free vote to his MPs,if he dared to that is.

Agreed....he has given a free vote so hopefully will get the debate he has requested then people can vote on the outcome fully informed. Not a Corbyn fan particularly but has done what is right and fair imo

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

He's e-mailed Labour party members,The same people who voted for him to be leader.They are obviously going to agree with him.

'A sample of this weekend’s consultation of Labour Party members, carried out in response to an email from Jeremy Corbyn'


Hardly an independent poll is it?

YouGov poll vs Corbyn e-mailing the people who elected him hmmm....

Why should it be an independent poll, he wanted the views of the 'Labour' movement to clarify what they preferred as party policy.
He got a resounding no to action.

Whoever said it was an independent poll,it was never to be intended as so, however I also know many,like myself,said it should be a free vote for Labour MPs which unlike the Conservative party he has listened to.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

He's e-mailed Labour party members,The same people who voted for him to be leader.They are obviously going to agree with him.

'A sample of this weekend’s consultation of Labour Party members, carried out in response to an email from Jeremy Corbyn'


Hardly an independent poll is it?

YouGov poll vs Corbyn e-mailing the people who elected him hmmm....

Labour party members could vote for any leader... they weren't all Corbinistas.

[bots]

I think Corbyn had to make it a free vote or face mass resignations from his cabinet. While I applaud the free vote, I don't think he would have chosen that route unless forced to. It's not what he was intending a couple of days ago.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Labour party members could vote for any leader... they weren't all Corbinistas.

Well they obviously were.He got elected as leader by them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Well they obviously were.He got elected as leader by them.

Yes by some of them obv... but there will have been others who voted for Burnham et al, not EVERY party member is a Corbynista :/

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Why should it be an independent poll, he wanted the views of the 'Labour' movement to clarify what they preferred as party policy.
He got a resounding no to action.

Whoever said it was an independent poll,it was to be intended as so, however I also know many,like myself,said it should be a free vote for Labour MPs which unlike the Conservative party he has listened to.

My point was that Kizzy implied that it contradicted the YouGov poll of Labour voters(not just members).Which it does'nt.It is not a revalation that Labour members back Corbyn.The average Labour voter however is in favour of airstrikes in Syria.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes by some of them obv... but there will have been others who voted for Burnham et al, not EVERY party member is a Corbynista :/

Not every member is but most are....

[bots]

labour voter does not have a one for one correspondence with labour party member/associate/helper/hanger on/person who lives next door and paid their 30 pence admittance fee.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I think Corbyn had to make it a free vote or face mass resignations from his cabinet. While I applaud the free vote, I don't think he would have chosen that route unless forced to. It's not what he was intending a couple of days ago.

All he was intending a few days ago was the he would be voting against, which is no surprise to anyone.

What he has done in the intervening days is gather the thoughts and opinions of the Labour movement at large.
Which sent him a resounding no to action,from Labour activists ,members and the wider movement.
As I said, many like myself.also said there should be a free vote for Labour MPs.

Today he has done all that they presented to him and you are wrong with massive respect, he could have actually insisted as the likes of Diane Abbott and even the pundits were saying on the news today,that Labour follow his lead and the whip.
As was suggested by the media, this could have meant that David Cameron would not in any way have even risked a vote at all probably if that had been the case.

he had other choices and he had stated he would make his decision today which he has.

Yesterday you were championing the Conservatives and David Cameron with his/their non existent free vote for Conservative MPs.

Very sad indeed you cannot accept that this is the right move and for once now give the guy some credit for allowing his MPs at least the opportunity to vote with their consciences and not under party forced orders.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Agreed....he has given a free vote so hopefully will get the debate he has requested then people can vote on the outcome fully informed. Not a Corbyn fan particularly but has done what is right and fair imo

Well said AnnieK, nice to see a fair and reasoned reaction to his action today.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I think Corbyn had to make it a free vote or face mass resignations from his cabinet. While I applaud the free vote, I don't think he would have chosen that route unless forced to. It's not what he was intending a couple of days ago.

My thoughts too BOTS - just another (forced) U Turn really.

[smudgie]

So, is he hedging his bets, give them a free vote at the same time letting them know they should vote no and hope for the best.
Better outcome than whipping them and them not taking notice.
Either way, I am glad he has given a free vote...saves the day for him a wee while longer.

[Vicky.]

Can't do right for doing wrong springs to mind here

[bots]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

All he was intending a few days ago was the he would be voting against, which is no surprise to anyone.

What he has done in the intervening days is gather the thoughts and opinions of the Labour movement at large.
Which sent him a resounding no to action,from Labour activists ,members and the wider movement.
As I said, many like myself.also said there should be a free vote for Labour MPs.

Today he has done all that they presented to him and you are wrong with massive respect, he could have actually insisted as the likes of Diane Abbott and even the pundits were saying on the news today,that Labour follow his lead and the whip.
As was suggested by the media, this could have meant that David Cameron would not in any way have even risked a vote at all probably if that had been the case.

he had other choices and he had stated he would make his decision today which he has.

Yesterday you were championing the Conservatives and David Cameron with his/their non existent free vote for Conservative MPs.

Very sad indeed you cannot accept that this is the right move and for once now give the guy some credit for allowing his MPs at least the opportunity to vote with their consciences and not under party forced orders.

Why should I give Corbyn any credit, I detest the man, he is an idiot, and a dangerous idiot at that.

I applauded the free vote decision. I think that is the correct move, even if he was pushed into it.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Why should I give Corbyn any credit, I detest the man, he is an idiot, and a dangerous idiot at that.

I applauded the free vote decision. I think that is the correct move, even if he was pushed into it.

Well there you go, no point in engaging in any further discussion then with you.
No free vote for the Conservative MPs from their leader and a free vote given by the leader for the Labour ones.
Sometimes we have to give credit to anyone who does the right thing, no matter what we think of them personally.
Clearly not your thing.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Can't do right for doing wrong springs to mind here

Indeed it is, you are spot on again Vicky.