[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I feel the same about james bond, always comes across as arrogant and sexist to me... maybe I'd prefer him if he were black

Same, I actually hate James Bond too


Did you watch Django unchained Kizzy? Originally Will Smith was supposed to be Django but he pulled out, for me Will Smith and Jamie Foxx are like polar opposites, I find Jamie abit cold in films where as Will is just so likeable, I wonder how that would have changed the film (still loved the film but for me Christopher Waltz made it)

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Same, I actually hate James Bond too


Did you watch Django unchained Kizzy? Originally Will Smith was supposed to be Django but he pulled out, for me Will Smith and Jamie Foxx are like polar opposites, I find Jamie abit cold in films where as Will is just so likeable, I wonder how that would have changed the film (still loved the film but for me Christopher Waltz made it)

Will Smith is way too cheerful to be Django... it would be a totally different film. I agree that Jamie Foxx often comes across cold but that film definitely needs that... he's basically a guy that's been pushed far enough to be come a straight up killer-ninja . Like that's the point really... he barely blinks as he slaughters them.

Sammy L and Leo make the film for me, though.

[Marsh.]

The oldest thing I've seen Idris Elba in was that episode of Ab Fab where he plays a gigolo.

I didn't realise it was him until a few months ago.

And how apt what Patsy says to him?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

The oldest thing I've seen Idris Elba in was that episode of Ab Fab where he plays a gigolo.

I didn't realise it was him until a few months ago.

And how apt what Patsy says to him?

He's does better English accent than Connery.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

'It's not that a spy can't be black, or that you couldn't make a film exactly LIKE a bond film with a black Bond, it's just that you couldn't have a black actor take on the currently established role of Bond. Because, as Livia says, it would alter the character's history, make past situations impossible, and therefore break the canon.' And yet white hollywood has been perfectly comfortable putting white actors in roles meant for blacks or people of color. Jesus of Nazareth, Cleopatra, Moses, recently they tried it with the film about a black transgender activist by putting a blue eyed white man but people have too much of a voice now with social media so they didn't just sit back and let it happen.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

'It's not that a spy can't be black, or that you couldn't make a film exactly LIKE a bond film with a black Bond, it's just that you couldn't have a black actor take on the currently established role of Bond. Because, as Livia says, it would alter the character's history, make past situations impossible, and therefore break the canon.' And yet white hollywood has been perfectly comfortable putting white actors in roles meant for blacks or people of color. Jesus of Nazareth, Cleopatra, Moses, recently they tried it with the film about a black transgender activist by putting a blue eyed white man but people have too much of a voice now with social media so they didn't just sit back and let it happen.

Either you didn't read all of what I said and jumped after the first sentence, or you're not a fan of serial movie / TV universes and have no idea what I'm talking about when I mention established rules / canon.

I specifically said that there's no issue with having a black Bond, *** IF *** you reboot (start over) the "Bond universe" that those movies are set in and give him a new back story. The roles you're talking about are standalone type movies (contained universes) and so the director has free reign with casting, IMO. Whether their decisions are good or bad is still up for debate, but the decision is theirs. They can cast whoever or whatever they want. They can do the whole thing in CGI. They can make a whole cast of sea mammals and put a whole new twist on "James Pond".

What they can't do is make dramatic changes to a character in an established universe and expect to maintain the suspension of disbelief that makes movies enjoyable.

It's not a race superiority issue at all. Not for me, anyway. I would have just as much of a problem with it if I was to walk into "Cap 3: Civil War"when it comes out and find that The Falcon or War Machine (both black characters) had been replaced with white actors. Just the same as if Iron Man was suddenly Chinese, or Black Widow was suddenly played by a 6ft tall man.

[Marsh.]

But Bond doesn't stick to an established universe or canon anyway.

One or two movies almost carry on from the other but other than that, the rules chop and change all of the time anyway. Even when there isn't a change of lead actor.

James Bond is not an example of having a strong canon. It's like Doctor Who, the rules and backstory changes to suit the whims of the person in charge of it at any given time.

The lead characters skin being a different colour really is nothing in comparison.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

But Bond doesn't stick to an established universe or canon anyway.

One or two movies almost carry on from the other but other than that, the rules chop and change all of the time anyway. Even when there isn't a change of lead actor.

James Bond is not an example of having a strong canon. It's like Doctor Who, the rules and backstory changes to suit the whims of the person in charge of it at any given time.

The lead characters skin being a different colour really is nothing in comparison.

It doesn't have a strong canon but it has only changed once. Ending with Brosnan and rebooting with Craig. There have been established ties between all of the previous movies. Yes, there are numerous examples of canon "flexibility" already in Bond, as you mentioned is the case with Doctor Who, but the fact that it already exists doesn't mean that it *should* exist or that it should be encouraged... I hate it when the goalposts are moved. Even little bits for convenience. For example, it bugs the **** out of me that they make a big deal about "wordless spells" being difficult in the early Harry Potter stories and then by the end, every dopey Hogwards kid with half a wand is throwing them around with a flick of their wrist...

I digress.

Rule changes mid-game are bad. Always bad. Bad for the story, bad for the viewer.

But again I have no problem with the "new standard" for Bond being a reboot with each new actor. I don't actually mind reboots. I'm quite comfortable with separate canon universes co-existing, even. The annoying skinny kid from Gotham, and Ben Affleck, can be Batman at the same time. I'm cool with that.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Rule changes mid-game are bad. Always bad. Bad for the story, bad for the viewer.

But again I have no problem with the "new standard" for Bond being a reboot with each new actor. I don't actually mind reboots. I'm quite comfortable with separate canon universes co-existing, even. The annoying skinny kid from Gotham, and Ben Affleck, can be Batman at the same time. I'm cool with that.

Yeah, I agree with this.

I think a lot of people subscribe to the theory of each James Bond not being the same person but a spy assigned that code name or whatever.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yeah, I agree with this.

I think a lot of people subscribe to the theory of each James Bond not being the same person but a spy assigned that code name or whatever.

I like it as a theory but there are a few small links in the "classic" pre-Brosnan films that fairly explicitly state that they're the same guy. Mentions of old missions / enemies / gadgets, things like that. Not so much with Brosnan but I'm sure the dead wife gets mentioned at some point? I dunno. I found all of the Brosnan films except Goldeneye pretty boring . And Goldeneye is really only an exception because, of course, Sean Bean is a legend unmatched in cinema.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I like it as a theory but there are a few small links in the "classic" pre-Brosnan films that fairly explicitly state that they're the same guy. Mentions of old missions / enemies / gadgets, things like that. Not so much with Brosnan but I'm sure the dead wife gets mentioned at some point? I dunno. I found all of the Brosnan films except Goldeneye pretty boring . And Goldeneye is really only an exception because, of course, Sean Bean is a legend unmatched in cinema.

I just don't like Brosnan. He's dull yet cheesy at the same time.

[Anaesthesia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I like it as a theory but there are a few small links in the "classic" pre-Brosnan films that fairly explicitly state that they're the same guy. Mentions of old missions / enemies / gadgets, things like that. Not so much with Brosnan but I'm sure the dead wife gets mentioned at some point? I dunno. I found all of the Brosnan films except Goldeneye pretty boring . And Goldeneye is really only an exception because, of course, Sean Bean is a legend unmatched in cinema.

Yeah I agree. I kind of lost interest in the films though when they ran out of original books to film. Bond IS just a franchise now, it wasn't back in t'day.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yeah, I agree with this.

I think a lot of people subscribe to the theory of each James Bond not being the same person but a spy assigned that code name or whatever.

Yes I thought that was it too otherwise how can it span so many decades?
If it's meant to be the same guy then how can he be the same age in the 60s,70s,80,90s, and so on.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes I thought that was it too otherwise how can it span so many decades?
If it's meant to be the same guy then how can he be the same age in the 60s,70s,80,90s, and so on.

Exactly this.

[King Gizzard]

If it sticked to a story he'd be ancient by now init

[King Gizzard]

Or not suddenly turn up and be a natural blonde

[King Gizzard]

(Was also under the illusion that it was just a name given to an agent)

[James]

The Connery-Lazenby-Moore years are kind of supposed to be the same character, albeit with different personalities. Rebooted for Dalton and Brosnan, and then rebooted again for Craig.

But yeah, the name can be treated like a codename.

[Kizzy]

Therefore I would now if 007 is just a variation on a theme expand the character, it has really been done to death the suave white stereotypical bond.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Therefore I would now if 007 is just a variation on a theme expand the character, it has really been done to death the suave white stereotypical bond.

White Bond

will stay as its the Story Line.


To much Hype on Bond Movies

[lostalex]

Wait...

but if the Oscars hate black people... and all the blacks stay away... isn't that just giving the Oscars what they want?

Blacks boycotting a racist business, for not including blacks... that seems like a win/win situation...

I don't understand the problem.

[lostalex]

the black stars have plenty of black awards to get.

[Kizzy]

No, I'm the least hollywood person, I hate shooting/fighting/action type films. I remember the hype surrounding it and the 'buckets of blood' rep it got initially, deffo not my thango

[Niamh.]

haha I love Tarantino films

[Niamh.]

Just stop being jealous of him TS


Oh actually back on topic, seems like Will has spoken up now too

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/m...cott/79107316/

and Reece Witherspoon also commented on it :
http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0121...scars-boycott/