[Beso]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So... your real life non-forum issues/problems etc are not healing because of the phrase pale male stale on this forum?

Ok.

It don't help mate...but because you don't see it it dont happen I guess.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...we all face struggles, we all face different disadvantages...(..and sometimes advantages..)...those are life things/human things...they’re not things that we face discriminations or prejudices for...

Don't we?

I don't believe that.

[Ammi]

...I..r..o..n..y...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

It don't help mate...but because you don't see it it dont happen I guess.

I never said it doesn't happen.

I asked how seeing the words pale stale male have any bearing on your off forum life?

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I think admins and mods on this forum need to work out rules on fake news and fake opinions.
Someone like in this thread can claim black is white and waste everybody's time.
Reality is the only reference point we've got and it is not up for negotiation or we enter a cuckoo's land.

See on the grand scheme of things this is one of the biggest problems we face, if we don't agree with another's opinion it's deemed 'fake' and/or dismissed. It's the 'we're accepting of every one, peace to the world, we are all equal...but if you don't agree with my opinion then you're wrong, a idiot, you don't count' attitude. This seems to be a growing trend particularly in some left wing circles, and it goes against every thing the left should, and did once stand for...Hence why so many life long Labour votes went Conservative this time round.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Swan

See on the grand scheme of things this is one of the biggest problems we face, if we don't agree with another's opinion it's deemed 'fake' and/or dismissed. It's the 'we're accepting of every one, peace to the world, we are all equal...but if you don't agree with my opinion then you're wrong, a idiot, you don't count' attitude. This seems to be a growing trend particularly in some left wing circles, and it goes against every thing the left should, and did once stand for...Hence why so many life long Labour votes went Conservative this time round.

You misunderstood

I dont want to shut down debates..

But things like racism does not exist bc Oliver says so are beyond ridiculous

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

You misunderstood

I dont want to shut down debates..

But things like racism does not exist bc Oliver says so are beyond ridiculous

Well every one knows racism exists, even if it doesn't exist for them, if the don't see it first or even second hand, it still exists yes.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I see it every day. I work in a shopping district and the amount of verbal and often physical racial abuse the Asian bloke opposite gets on a weekly basis is appalling.

Irate customers name-call, it happens. I was called a "lanky bastard" and a "spotty twat" back in my retail days and if I was ginger, fat, ugly, black, a non-passing trans, or had braces, that's what their insults would have been based on.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I never said it doesn't happen.

I asked how seeing the words pale stale male have any bearing on your off forum life?

You added an ok at the end to highlight that you think o was talking bollocks.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I..r..o..n..y...

Stop **** stirring it's nasty.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

You added an ok at the end to highlight that you think o was talking bollocks.

No I said ok because I was taking your word for it that it affects your real life. I have no response to that because I don't know how it does.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Swan

Well every one knows racism exists, even if it doesn't exist for them, if the don't see it first or even second hand, it still exists yes.

Could pls explain that to Oliver? He didnt get the memo.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Irate customers name-call, it happens. I was called a "lanky bastard" and a "spotty twat" back in my retail days and if I was ginger, fat, ugly, black, a non-passing trans, or had braces, that's what their insults would have been based on.

It's not irate customers, it's racial abuse.

Trivialise it all you like. Comparing it to being called spotty is one of the most laughable things you've come out with. Quite an achievement.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Could pls explain that to Oliver? He didnt get the memo.

I've never said racism doesn't exist, there'll always be arseholes. I said society has reached the point where everyone is equal, and anyone can be discriminated against.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Stop **** stirring it's nasty.

...no parmy, what I’ve said in this thread has not been nasty, not nasty at all...please stop trying to project something that you’re feeling onto me...because I reject it completely...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I've never said racism doesn't exist, there'll always be arseholes. I said society has reached the point where everyone is equal, and anyone can be discriminated against.

So being called spotty is "equal" to racism?

I've heard quite enough bollocks now. Racism goes beyond name calling.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I've never said racism doesn't exist, there'll always be arseholes. I said society has reached the point where everyone is equal, and anyone can be discriminated against.

Only on paper.
But you cant decree a change in people's prejudices just like that. Racism can be overt but it also can be hidden.
You attach magic capabilities to how things are meant to be.
Communism also claimed universal equality. Was it really? No it wasn't.

These days nobody in polite society will admit to racism bc it is illegal. Does it mean it disappeared from peoples thinking and from organisations and companies practice? It doesn't. A different reason will be given to hide it. And you can do **** all about it.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So being called spotty is "equal" to racism?

I've heard quite enough bollocks now.

I'll make an addendum to something I said before - the only types of privilege that still exist are class/wealth, and beauty. I was lacking in beauty privilege at the time, so I was on the rung below the person who called me that. Now that there's no more soceital power given to white people, the N-word has been relegated to a (disgusting) insult.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...no parmy, what I’ve said in this thread has not been nasty, not nasty at all...please stop trying to project something that you’re feeling onto me...because I reject it completely...

Can you explain why you posted the word irony the way you did just randomly in the middle of this thread for then please..cause it's making no sense whatsoever

[Twosugars]

Racism is finished people, nothing to see here

Ollie could you also declare homophobia and misogyny are over?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Only on paper.
But you cant decree a change in people's prejudices just like that. Racism can be overt but it also can be hidden.
You attach magic capabilities to how things are meant to be.
Communism also claimed universal equality. Was it really? No it wasn't.

These days nobody in polite society will admit to racism bc it is illegal. Does it mean it disappeared from peoples thinking and from organisations and companies practice? It doesn't. A different reason will be given to hide it. And you can do **** all about it.

Like I said, there will always be arseholes.

But societally, everyone is equal, and anyone can face discrimination. If it becomes apparent in an organisations practice, expose it and drag them down! Even if the government doesn't step in, people will vote with their wallet and it will damage the business ... like it did in the only Chick Fil A in England

[Jigs]

I think some fans of RTV tend to root less for the pale stale male not because they are punishing straight white men for being what they are not, but because they are choosing to focus their energy on celebrating minorities for what they are. Rooting for non-white ethnic minorities and members of the LGBTQ+ community serves to praise them for what they are and to act in opposition to the INDISPUTABLE FACT that they face a harder trajectory in life than the pale stale male, regardless of overt, spoken racism or not.

Even if you believe you are not racist yourself, you can't deny these problems exist. To selfishly and passive-aggressively complain that a straight white man is not supported as much as a gay black woman is just ignoring the fact that straight white men get a way easier ride in LIFE so I think the least you can do is allow people to root for who they want on a Reality TV show. I said in another thread the other day that I certainly don't think we need every show to have black winners or gay winners in order to be enjoyable shows. However, it would be nice to see once in a while considering it would prove some degree of progression in how minority groups are perceived by the masses.

Processes of othering against ethnic minorities have always been and continue to be detrimental to how they perceive themselves and assimilate comfortably in a very male-driven, white-driven society. Using dichotomous approaches to separate an "us" from a "them" is the exact reason why there is still a need to celebrate and uplift and root for women who are black, for example, because they don't often get a fair shot. Gay men, black men, trans women, etc. are constantly subjected to experience the discrepancy between their authentic selves and the "self" that is demanded of them by the rest of society in order to be normal, to be liked, to be a success.

If people focused more energy into actually understanding their privilege fully they would surely not see an issue with terms such as pale stale male. Personally, as a white man myself I find that term much, MUCH less damaging/offensive than terms such as "aggressive black woman", "black criminal", "ladyboy" or "f*ggot".

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Can you explain why you posted the word irony the way you did just randomly in the middle of this thread for then please..cause it's making no sense whatsoever

...I didn’t ‘randomly’ post anything...in the post above, you had directly quoted my post with the response of..’have we, I don’t believe that..’...you made a thread to discuss something because you say that you were very upset and yet you’re very selective with who you want a discussion with...you feel somehow ‘dismissed’, while you dismiss others who are offering their views...I find that ironic and it wasn’t randomly posted, as you know...I hope you got satisfaction out of saying that I was being nasty...I hope it gives you a real feel good...and I hope it’s the release and contentment that you were obviously hoping for...we’ve nothing more to say to each other, you’ve made that perfectly obvious at every opportunity that you possibly could...

...oh by the by...(..and speaking of ‘nasty’...)...and very off topic...if you could do a Secret Santa for Liam, rather than the nasty ‘high horse’ comment...something in the actual spirit of Secret Santa, which you asked to be a part of...that would be lovely ...and the right thing to do, because he deserves it, I’m sure you’ll agree...

[Marsh.]

So now ugly people is a bigger problem than racism.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Jigs

I think some fans of RTV tend to root less for the pale stale male not because they are punishing straight white men for being what they are not, but because they are choosing to focus their energy on celebrating minorities for what they are. Rooting for non-white ethnic minorities and members of the LGBTQ+ community serves to praise them for what they are and to act in opposition to the INDISPUTABLE FACT that they face a harder trajectory in life than the pale stale male, regardless of overt, spoken racism or not.

Even if you believe you are not racist yourself, you can't deny these problems exist. To selfishly and passive-aggressively complain that a straight white man is not supported as much as a gay black woman is just ignoring the fact that straight white men get a way easier ride in LIFE so I think the least you can do is allow people to root for who they want on a Reality TV show. I said in another thread the other day that I certainly don't think we need every show to have black winners or gay winners in order to be enjoyable shows. However, it would be nice to see once in a while considering it would prove some degree of progression in how minority groups are perceived by the masses.

Processes of othering against ethnic minorities have always been and continue to be detrimental to how they perceive themselves and assimilate comfortably in a very male-driven, white-driven society. Using dichotomous approaches to separate an "us" from a "them" is the exact reason why there is still a need to celebrate and uplift and root for women who are black, for example, because they don't often get a fair shot. Gay men, black men, trans women, etc. are constantly subjected to experience the discrepancy between their authentic selves and the "self" that is demanded of them by the rest of society in order to be normal, to be liked, to be a success.

If people focused more energy into actually understanding their privilege fully they would surely not see an issue with terms such as pale stale male. Personally, as a white man myself I find that term much, MUCH less damaging/offensive than terms such as "aggressive black woman", "black criminal", "ladyboy" or "f*ggot".

What a fantastically elaborate post. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said here.