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lily. · 28-05-2010, 02:52 PM

LT : You didn't respond to my post.

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enid

I warned you, and you didn't listen.

he does not listen to a woman who is still in her nightgown at 15:52

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lily.

You know, I hate to play the 'female' card here, but I'm going to.

As a woman, I've gone through two successful planned/wanted pregnancies. None of them were straight-forward.

I have a friend who almost died giving birth, and she had to have blood transfusions afterwards.

I have another friend who was left with a range of physical problems after having her first child.

You can't deny that pregnancy/childbirth takes it's toll on a woman's body, and leaves it's mark afterwards. There are still health risks (even in 2010) with pregnancy/childbirth.

So, with all that in mind, would you still like to see women go through all that for a child they don't want and didn't plan?

I understand you are a Christian, and that might be why you have such strong views on the issue. But with all due respect, you must understand that not everyone feels the same. And although I agree with you that the figures are outrageous given that all women are aware of how to protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies, I don't see you coming up with a feasible solution.

no sorry i did not

Your examples are exceptions to the rule, as you know.

I dont think many children are planned, I mean plan for what?

Most married couples have not planned a child, they busk it and learn on the job.

I would question the validity of the planned stuff. How many women who have children bitterly regret having them?

not many.

You cant plan for a child, but you can accept responsibility for it and do the best you can.

Photon · 28-05-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enid

I warned you, and you didn't listen.

I already knew the guy was a tool.

lily. · 28-05-2010, 02:58 PM

You can plan for a child.

You can actively decide that you want to be a parent. That's what I did.

Prior to making that decision, I was using the contraceptive pill. That's what responsible women do.

Unfortunately there are irresponsible women who don't. But, it's not for us to say they should go through with the pregnancy.

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

I already knew the guy was a tool.

Ahhh, the "you smell" line of debate

classy

Photon · 28-05-2010, 03:01 PM

No, I called you a tool. I don't know what you smell like, tool.

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lily.

You can plan for a child.

You can actively decide that you want to be a parent. That's what I did.

But are you saying that these 195K women have decided not to be a parent or is it that they just dont fancy the responsibility and an abortion is the easy option?

That they see it just as a means of contraception, something which incidentally it was NEVER intended to be when introduced

Jack_ · 28-05-2010, 03:02 PM

Classic.

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

No, I called you a tool. I don't know what you smell like, tool.

oh dear

lily. · 28-05-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But are you saying that these 195K women have decided not to be a parent or is it that they just dont fancy the responsibility and an abortion is the easy option?

That they see it just as a means of contraception, something which incidentally it was NEVER intended to be when introduced

I agree that it shouldn't be used as contraception, but there is no way to police that.

How could you possibly decide if someone was using it as contraception, or if they had genuinely found themselves in a tight spot? Who would be in charge of such a decision, and how would it be right to deny them an abortion thus forcing them to go through with a pregnancy they clearly don't want?

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lily.

I agree that it shouldn't be used as contraception, but there is no way to police that.

How could you possibly decide if someone was using it as contraception, or if they had genuinely found themselves in a tight spot? Who would be in charge of such a decision, and how would it be right to deny them an abortion thus forcing them to go through with a pregnancy they clearly don't want?

The trick is to stop people having sex, stop images of sex pervading music and advertising to the young, reduce the messages that sex is this great thing we should all be doing as soon as we hit secondary school and make people realise that there are huge consequences.

I want to see the stats of all the Mums who bitterly regret having children and put that against all the pregnant women who say that a child would ruin their lives if they did not have an abortion.

I would also like to see geographic maps of abortions, and social class stats to see if there are trends as i suspect there are.

lily. · 28-05-2010, 03:10 PM

The problem is in society. There are too many parents who don't care enough to teach their kids about sex/contraception.

It's not enough to just tell them to say no. You have to teach them about responsibility and self-respect, and give them the tools they need to make the right decision.

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lily.

The problem is in society. There are too many parents who don't care enough to teach their kids about sex/contraception.

It's not enough to just tell them to say no. You have to teach them about responsibility and self-respect, and give them the tools they need to make the right decision.

Its the tools they are using that is half the flippin problem

lily. · 28-05-2010, 03:35 PM

Did you happen to see the car-crash telly that was 'the scheme'?

That's an example of something which is happening everywhere.

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lily.

Did you happen to see the car-crash telly that was 'the scheme'?

That's an example of something which is happening everywhere.

I did

I could only feel sorry for Bullseye the dug tho

lily. · 28-05-2010, 03:52 PM

Bullet.

Poor bugger was the only one with any self-respect in the whole program.

Tom4784 · 28-05-2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The trick is to stop people having sex, stop images of sex pervading music and advertising to the young, reduce the messages that sex is this great thing we should all be doing as soon as we hit secondary school and make people realise that there are huge consequences.

I want to see the stats of all the Mums who bitterly regret having children and put that against all the pregnant women who say that a child would ruin their lives if they did not have an abortion.

I would also like to see geographic maps of abortions, and social class stats to see if there are trends as i suspect there are.

Short of padlock pants, trying to stop people having sex just won't work. Linda's right on the money, educating people is the only sensible option. It might not work all the time but it's a better idea then telling people not to do it.

keithafc · 28-05-2010, 04:22 PM

First time, i don't like it but its your right i suppose to have one. 2nd time, Nah, **** that. I think you should be forced to have the child, you can't be getting ****ed and not know what a condom or the pill is.

Once is bad enough, twice is a ****ing joke. There is no excuse in this day and age. Everyone KNOWS what a CONDOM is and what the PILL is. Sort it out people.

Tom4784 · 28-05-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keithafc

First time, i don't like it but its your right i suppose to have one. 2nd time, Nah, **** that. I think you should be forced to have the child, you can't be getting ****ed and not know what a condom or the pill is.

Once is bad enough, twice is a ****ing joke. There is no excuse in this day and age. Everyone KNOWS what a CONDOM is and what the PILL is. Sort it out people.

Why? Even though I don't agree with it being used as contraception it's their choice and ultimately their problem, How the hell does it affect you if they choose to abort? Would you take this view if your tax money was paying for the children born from this? There are a lot of people not fit to be a parent out there forcing them into having kids would be disastorous.

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Not to mention him not giving any thought to the welfare of the children forced to be born! Potentially a lifetime of misery, unloved and unwanted - compared to nothing - no conscious awareness of existing or suffering! People get on their high-horses about abortion - with absolutely no understanding of the potential consequenses to all the unwanted children!

which children do you refer to?

where are the unwanted millions of children. I dont recall ever seeing a mother who did not want their child that has been born, perhaps a few alcoholics or druggies but that would be like 0.001%?

can you identify to me the unwanted children here in the UK today?

your post is based on a myth that hides the truth, it is just contraception.

Tom4784 · 28-05-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

which children do you refer to?

where are the unwanted millions of children. I dont recall ever seeing a mother who did not want their child that has been born, perhaps a few alcoholics or druggies but that would be like 0.001%?

can you identify to me the unwanted children here in the UK today?

your post is based on a myth that hides the truth, it is just contraception.

Bit of a silly statement, There's plenty of kids in care if that statement was true then where would they have come from? Some people aren't cut out to be parents but whether they have an abortion or have the child and place them up for adoption well that's their choice at the end of the day.

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Bit of a silly statement, There's plenty of kids in care if that statement was true then where would they have come from? Some people aren't cut out to be parents but whether they have an abortion or have the child and place them up for adoption well that's their choice at the end of the day.

give me the numbers then to refute it

LeatherTrumpet · 28-05-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

The thousands in care for a start! Those abused and neglected by parents - who clearly never wanted to be parents in the first place!

There you go getting all emotive again - did I say 'millions' - although if you were talking worldwide - it probably would be!

give me the numbers