[Angus]

MPs defy European Court of Human Rights who have ruled that all prisoners should have the right to vote.

I'm delighted that commonsense has prevailed and MPs across all parties have voted by a substantial majority to ban prisoners from having the right to vote. I hope this is the first step towards rejecting the tyranny of unelected judges in Strasbourg interfering in the UK constitution.

The gloves are off, let battle commence, and I, for one, hope the outcome is a total rejection and repeal of the iniquitous and deeply unjust Human Rights Act.

[Shaun]

grrrr yeah cos prisoners aren't people they're all evil paedos :@:@:@

[Beastie]

I am glad. All prisoners should remain NOT to have the right to vote. Their "rights" were all taken away when they went to prison.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by thebeast

I am glad. All prisoners should remain NOT to have the right to vote. Their "rights" were all taken away when they went to prison.

It's sheer hypocrisy for a criminal to bleat about his own "human rights"" when he or she has blatantly infringed and run rough shod over someone else's. Let's hope our Government holds its' resolve and refuses to be browbeaten by increasingly ludicrously out of touch judges in Strasbourg.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by angus58

It's sheer hypocrisy for a criminal to bleat about his own "human rights"" when he or she has blatantly infringed and run rough shod over someone else's. Let's hope our Government holds its' resolve and refuses to be browbeaten by increasingly ludicrously out of touch judges in Strasbourg.

Whose human rights have non violent drug offenders trampled on?

Cheers.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by angus58

I thought this debate might be above the usual suspects' heads
Predictable reaction, which is becoming increasingly boring and pitiful in its attempt for attention

If you're going to write off everything I say with "the usual suspects" paranoia and hyperbole (that worked very well for WOMBAI by the way ) then you're not going to get anywhere.

My point was that viewing prisoners as a subspecies is ridiculous. Say some of them are in there for credit card fraud, or drug posession - does that mean they shouldn't get a say in how the government's formed? Of course it shouldn't.

In fact I can't think of a single crime that should sacrifice one's right to democracy. Even all the horrible ones which you seem to revel in with some kind of morbid anger.

Originally Posted by angus58

It's sheer hypocrisy for a criminal to bleat about his own "human rights"" when he or she has blatantly infringed and run rough shod over someone else's. Let's hope our Government holds its' resolve and refuses to be browbeaten by increasingly ludicrously out of touch judges in Strasbourg.

Well whilst we're at it why don't we just take away their right to live this is such a backward view it's unreal.

[GypsyGoth]

I don't think criminals should have the vote.

They are in jail because they broke the law, they have lost their right be be a free citizen.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I don't think criminals should have the vote.

They are in jail because they broke the law, they have lost their right be be a free citizen.

I'm continually breaking a law I perceive is wrong because it is hindering my right to be a free citizen. What would you have done with me?

I'm of the opinion that not all criminals are evil harbringers of the apocalypse and that quite a few are just misguided fuck ups. That means they are members of society serving a punishment for a crime they have commited. It doesn't mean they are permanently black bagged out of society.

Why shouldn't non violent protestors, drug policy reform advocates and general seekers of change who went to prison for the first place for their beliefs not be allowed vote from inside in the hope that they can help change things?

Anyone who harbours such bizarre views is silently advocating for an Orwellian state. It's our law or we cut you off and tell you to go and fuck yourself. You scare the shit out of me sometimes, Angus. What's worse is that it's just a recreational activity for you. I like to shoot nazis in the back on my PlayStation. You like to complain about the great injustices of our world. It practically forms the backbone of 90% of your posts.

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Stu

I'm continually breaking a law I perceive is wrong because it is hindering my right to be a free citizen. What would you have done with me?

Well I think your rights as a person are different to the rights the society grants you. If you get caught breaking the law (for whatever reasons, and regardless of crime) I think you should lose your right to vote. I think it's part of the punishment.

While I disagree with the laws making grass illegal, it is however still a law. Were you to go to jail because of it I feel it's fair you can't vote.

And I don't think criminals are evil, far from it, I think they're just people, but still they should be punished for their crime.

[Shaun]

But where is the correlation between breaking the law (which in itself is a very broad and vague term - you can't compare murderers with tax evaders) and wanting to vote Labour?

[Stu]

I'm gobsmacked. I don't even know what to say.

Anyone know where I can pick up a V For Vendetta quote book?

[MTVN]

I agree with Shaun and angus please stop with the "usual suspects" jibes and your whole "wooly-minded liberals" rhetoric, it adds nothing to the debate.

The vote should be something that all humans should have, it is a right I consider to be universal, I dont think you can pick and choose who deserves to be able to vote and who doesnt. When you do that you elevate one set of humans over another, essentially treating them as subhuman.

This is always a contentious issue and while prisoners do lose their liberty when they're sentenced they dont also lose their human rights, and are still treated with dignity as human beings; I personally feel the vote is a part of that.

But then I can see the arguments against it, it really is one issue where I am close to being undecided

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Stu

Whose human rights have non violent drug offenders trampled on?

Cheers.

Mine and everyone else's since,by keeping the drug barons and dealers in business, they are responsible for violence, fraud, embezzlement, prostitution etc via third party in order to keep them supplied with their favourite poison. Furthermore, drug addicts under the influence can hardly possess the mental capacity to cast a reasoned and considered vote, so I don't want to have to suffer the consequences of their stupidity. What's more, they will only be put in prison if they commit a crime, whether violent or not, or did you not register that bit?

Cheers.

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Shaun

But where is the correlation between breaking the law (which in itself is a very broad and vague term - you can't compare murderers with tax evaders) and wanting to vote Labour?

Well I see voting as a right for all law biding people. If people go to jail they lose loads of privileges and voting is one of them.

Originally Posted by Stu

I'm gobsmacked. I don't even know what to say.

Anyone know where I can pick up a V For Vendetta quote book?

I know I have strange views.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by angus58

Mine and everyone else's since,by keeping the drug barons and dealers in business, they are responsible for violence, fraud, embezzlement, prostitution etc via third party in order to keep them supplied with their favourite poison. Furthermore, drug addicts under the influence can hardly possess the mental capacity to cast a reasoned and considered vote, so I don't want to have to suffer the consequences of their stupidity. What's more, they will only be put in prison if they commit a crime, whether violent or not, or did you not register that bit?

Cheers.

Isin't it the instigators and supporters of prohibition that are keeping the drug barons in business? The United States government through sheer stupidity created Al Capone. Not the guy who wanted the freedom to booze after work. What about people growing weed for their own benefit? Or the people who buy from these people?

Also not all drug users are consistently high. It's like passing a law prohibiting drinkers from voting coz they'll be pissed at the polling station.

Jesus christ almighty.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Well I see voting as a right for all law biding people. If people go to jail they lose loads of privileges and voting is one of them.

Well I'd have thought losing the privelege of where to go, what to do, etc. would come part of the punishment But I still don't understand the thinking behind "right, you've set fire to a building, that means you can't vote any more".

Like - those who're imprisoned for animal cruelty lose the right to keep animals. That's understandable. But unless the crime you've committed is to do with rigging elections I don't see why you can't get to use your democracy.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Stu

I'm continually breaking a law I perceive is wrong because it is hindering my right to be a free citizen. What would you have done with me?

I'm of the opinion that not all criminals are evil harbringers of the apocalypse and that quite a few are just misguided fuck ups. That means they are members of society serving a punishment for a crime they have commited. It doesn't mean they are permanently black bagged out of society.

Why shouldn't non violent protestors, drug policy reform advocates and general seekers of change who went to prison for the first place for their beliefs not be allowed vote from inside in the hope that they can help change things?

Anyone who harbours such bizarre views is silently advocating for an Orwellian state. It's our law or we cut you off and tell you to go and fuck yourself. You scare the shit out of me sometimes, Angus. What's worse is that it's just a recreational activity for you. I like to shoot nazis in the back on my PlayStation. You like to complain about the great injustices of our world. It practically forms the backbone of 90% of your posts.

If I scare the **** out of the likes of you, then my existence is not in vain. I'm not intimidated by the liberal bigots on this forum and will continue to state my views rejoicing in the knowledge that they irritate the hell out of the usual suspects.

To those who don't like the laws we all have to live by in the society we all have to live in, I suggest a nice little cave up in the mountains where they can do their own thing without bothering anyone else, or being bothered by others.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Stu

Isin't it the instigators and supporters of prohibition that are keeping the drug barons in business? The United States government through sheer stupidity created Al Capone. Not the guy who wanted the freedom to booze after work. What about people growing weed for their own benefit? Or the people who buy from these people?

Also not all drug users are consistently high. It's like passing a law prohibiting drinkers from voting coz they'll be pissed at the polling station.

Jesus christ almighty.

Oooh, them poor, hard done by ickle drug addicts who contribute so much to society - my heart bleeds, NOT

[Shasown]

Hardly shows prisoners who will be released during the term of the most recent election that society wants them to reintegrate back eh?

But hey ho lets just line Cherie Blair and Co's pockets for the next few years. Run up millions in legal aid for prisoners to sue or attempt to sue the government for restricting their right to vote.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by angus58

And how, pray, are drug users, especially those whose addiction has led them to be imprisoned "improving society"?

As for your mate, is he stoned and hallucinating? Your fixation with the Daily Mail is embarrassing - can't you find a better paper to read?

You are ignoring the point and narrowing it down to drug users. You said if people in general do not like the laws of the society they have to live in they should sod off to a cave. God forbid if people through history actually took your pissant advice we would all be living in a far worse society. You are essentially saying nobody should try and change society for the better. They should just leave if they don't like it.

Do you see the utter stupidity of what you wrote yet? And what wonderful tennis ball will you throw my way to distract from it or somehow change it?

But still I will respond to the drug user point anyway and just let you know that the vast majority of people consume drugs of some form and that does not exclude movers, shakers and revoluionaries over the years.

Perhaps you have your own comprehensive list of teetotal freedom fighters and virtuous philanthropists but I bet my list is bigger.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Stu

You are ignoring the point and narrowing it down to drug users. You said if people in general do not like the laws of the society they have to live in they should sod off to a cave. God forbid if people through history actually took your pissant advice we would all be living in a far worse society. You are essentially saying nobody should try and change society for the better. They should just leave if they don't like it.

Do you see the utter stupidity of what you wrote yet? And what wonderful tennis ball will you throw my way to distract from it or somehow change it?

But still I will respond to the drug user point anyway and just let you know that the vast majority of people consume drugs of some form and that does not exclude movers, shakers and revoluionaries over the years.

Perhaps you have your own comprehensive list of teetotal freedom fighters and virtuous philanthropists but I bet my list is bigger.

No you're wrong my dear - only the majority of people YOU know are drug users. You disingenuity in equating drinks and cigarettes with recreational drugs is predictable and pretty stupid, especially since you believe you are being very clever. However, I have been around a lot longer than you and can honestly say I don't know a single drug user. Yes, I know, it's quite shocking isn't it, that there are millions of people in the world who don't share your liberal, laissez faire, to hell with social norms and conventions mindset. And thank God for it.

[Stu]

Alcohol and cigarettes are recreational drugs. That is not up for debate. Are you saying only the users of illegal drugs are the addicts now?

I'm sorry I know I said I wouldn't engage but this is fascinating stuff.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by angus58

No you're wrong my dear - only the majority of people YOU know are drug users. You disingenuity in equating drinks and cigarettes with recreational drugs is predictable and pretty stupid, especially since you believe you are being very clever. However, I have been around a lot longer than you and can honestly say I don't know a single drug user. Yes, I know, it's quite shocking isn't it, that there are millions of people in the world who don't share your liberal, laissez faire, to hell with social norms and conventions mindset. And thank God for it.

I bet you do really only you dont know they use drugs recreationally, they wouldnt tell you because they know what your rection would be.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Stu

Alcohol and cigarettes are recreational drugs. That is not up for debate. Are you saying only the users of illegal drugs are the addicts now?

I'm sorry I know I said I wouldn't engage but this is fascinating stuff.

Have you lost the ability to extract information from the written word? I have said quite clearly that those whose drug addiction has led them to be imprisoned have no right to vote. As far as I know drinking and smoking are not criminal offences, unless accompanied by violence.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Shasown

I bet you do really only you dont know they use drugs recreationally, they wouldnt tell you because they know what your rection would be.

No, I don't, REALLY. Says more about your lifestyle than mine if you think drug taking is normal and acceptable.