[letmein]

Good? Bad?

What will happen to the Union Jack?

"Potentially the most serious threat to the UK in its 310-year history moved a step closer to fruition as the Scottish National party swept to untrammelled power in the Scottish parliament, giving its leader, Alex Salmond, a mandate to hold a referendum on independence at the time of his choosing within the next five years.

The stunning result in Scotland " giving Salmond a working majority of nine at Holyrood " gave David Cameron a new constitutional headache as he saw off the introduction of the alternative vote for Westminster elections. The no campaign, of which Cameron was a vocal supporter, won the nationwide historic referendum on AV by an overwhelming margin of 68% to 32% on a 42% turnout.

In a presidential campaign Salmond turned round a Labour poll lead and swept through Scottish Labour's heartlands taking 69 seats, to Labour's 37. The SNP reached its majority by taking Kirkcaldy, the home turf of former Labour prime minister, Gordon Brown.

The stunning result in Scotland, caused by a collapse in the Liberal Democrat vote there and a rudderless Labour campaign, led Salmond to announce he would be holding conversations immediately with Cameron to "lay down markers as to what this result, what this mandate, means in terms of Scotland's relationship with the United Kingdom".

He will call for specific transfers of power to Scotland in an attempt to assemble slowly a consensus for independence, leading to a referendum at some point after 2013.

Cameron said: "If they want to hold a referendum, I will campaign to keep our United Kingdom together with every single fibre I have." Despite the SNP's big win, polls showed most voters in Scotland oppose independence.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ict?intcmp=122

[Shaun]

They'll probably get the referendum but I can't see the majority wanting to split entirely.

[Zippy]

Just because Scots vote for SNP it doesnt mean they'd vote for independance. It's a different thing. And the majority of Scots don't even vote SNP so I seriously doubt a referendum would result in them seperating.

I just don't think they have the confidence or desire togo it alone. Especially now they pretty much get the best of both worlds.

[joeysteele]

Alex Salmond can of course put forward a policy for referendum on Independence, he can then hold that referendum if it gets through the Scottish parliament.

However if the result of the referendum was yes, he cannot insist that it is binding on the UK govt. The UK parliament would then independently discuss and decide whether to allow a vote in the UK parliament for Independence to be given.

With all main political parties at Westminster, it is a long shot indeed that the UK parliament would support and vote for to allow independence for Scotland.

He could of course go on and on about it, but his winning a referendum on independence would not in itself mean independence for Scotland,that would have to be decided and allowed by the whole UK parliament.

I doubt and would hope also that the Scots would not vote for full independence anyway.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Just because Scots vote for SNP it doesnt mean they'd vote for independance. It's a different thing. And the majority of Scots don't even vote SNP so I seriously doubt a referendum would result in them seperating.

I just don't think they have the confidence or desire togo it alone. Especially now they pretty much get the best of both worlds.

I don't agree fully about Scots getting the best of both Worlds but you are totally correct in that not a majority of Scots voters vote SNP anyway.
the majority of votes in Scotland go to Unionist parties like Labour, Conservative and Lib Dems.

Even this election with the disenchanted votes of the Lib Dems being loaned to the SNP,they still only got the SNPs vote to 45%,in truth the figure comfortably strong as to SNP voting is more like 33/34%, no more.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I doubt and would hope also that the Scots would not vote for full independence anyway.

well they would'nt and thats why it ain't gonna happen. If they had a referendum(which I hope they do) I think it would settle it once and for all. Then the SNP would have nothing to bang on about.

[arista]

Be Great
Scotland can stand on its own Feet
and go for the Euro if they Dare.


Means Labour will never have Scotland again.

Bliss

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by arista

Means Labour will never have Scotland again.

Bliss

not sure how you draw that conclusion. I think a lot of SNP votes are a nod towards independance. If they actually had it then the SNP would lose their big calling card.

but I think a lot of SNP votes are a bluff. They wouldnt get so many if it actually resulted in a split from the UK.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Zippy

not sure how you draw that conclusion. I think a lot of SNP votes are a nod towards independance. If they actually had it then the SNP would lose their big calling card.

but I think a lot of SNP votes are a bluff. They wouldnt get so many if it actually resulted in a split from the UK.

They are doing it in a few years
by then
Scotland will be better off
as a Republic.


And Will not effect English visting it
or working up there , except if the pick the dodgy Euro.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by arista

They are doing it in a few years
by then
Scotland will be better off
as a Republic.


And Will not effect English visting it
or working up there , except if the pick the dodgy Euro.

sorry but I dont feel any great desire from Scots to be a republic. Im sure there has been much more desire in recent decades...but it never happened.

Countries become republics via some kind of huge revolution...and I don't see many Scots revolting. It will take decades to happen I reckon. Not like theyll have referendums every year.

[MTVN]

From what I know, most Scots like what the SNP are doing in the country but dont necessarily support independence, Salmond will have his referendum but I dont think they'll secede

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Zippy

well they would'nt and thats why it ain't gonna happen. If they had a referendum(which I hope they do) I think it would settle it once and for all. Then the SNP would have nothing to bang on about.

Yes, that would be a good thing to happen,I agree with you.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Zippy

sorry but I dont feel any great desire from Scots to be a republic. Im sure there has been much more desire in recent decades...but it never happened.

Countries become republics via some kind of huge revolution...and I don't see many Scots revolting. It will take decades to happen I reckon. Not like theyll have referendums every year.

In Scotland in a few years they will Vote on it.

If the public at that time want it
it will go ahead.


Times Are Hard

Republic Of Scotland has a International Market Place.
Maybe they should change to dollars - that would be safer.

[ILoveTRW]

Good, lets see how long it takes them to crawl back when they realise they need our money!

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

From what I know, most Scots like what the SNP are doing in the country but dont necessarily support independence, Salmond will have his referendum but I dont think they'll secede

Its not for a Few years
by then Scotland can get away from English Deals.
and change to dollars - if they wish

[arista]

Originally Posted by ILoveTRW

Good, lets see how long it takes them to crawl back when they realise they need our money!

No Scotland can stand on its own feet.


Times Are Changing

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by arista

No Scotland can stand on its own feet.


Times Are Changing

its not about whether they can stand on their own feet. This isnt just about business its also about emotional attachment. I know there's a hate thing between English & Scots but really there's still deep rooted links. Giving up the union jack, the monarchy and all ties to the brand of Britain is a huge deal and I don't think Scots are anywhere near ready to take that leap. Really, they don't even need to. They still have their own identity within the union.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Zippy

its not about whether they can stand on their own feet. This isnt just about business its also about emotional attachment. I know there's a hate thing between English & Scots but really there's still deep rooted links. Giving up the union jack, the monarchy and all ties to the brand of Britain is a huge deal and I don't think Scots are anywhere near ready to take that leap. Really, they don't even need to. They still have their own identity within the union.

They are not Going to Build a Wall.



No this is Not about Hate at all


This is about Money and the Future of Scotland.




Sure they can have the Union jack
and the Republic of Scotland
we are United against terror gang criminals

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Zippy

its not about whether they can stand on their own feet. This isnt just about business its also about emotional attachment. I know there's a hate thing between English & Scots but really there's still deep rooted links. Giving up the union jack, the monarchy and all ties to the brand of Britain is a huge deal and I don't think Scots are anywhere near ready to take that leap. Really, they don't even need to. They still have their own identity within the union.

Really strong post Zippy,I have to agree again with you,independence would bring all sorts of costly and unnecessary trauma of re-organisation not just because of the fact Scotland is part of the EU as part of the United Kingdom but on all other industrial,business and financial matters.

As you rightly point out, they have massive affection for many British elements such as for the Monarchy.You are 100% right to point out that it's unlikely the majority of them will want to take that leap into the unknown now.

It's a thin line between love and hate, it's been on the whole a mutually good thing for Scotland to be part of the UK and good for England and the rest to have them there too.

I cannot see a majority of Scots voting for independence in the modern World as it is, it made more sense to want it many decades ago rather than now.

[Zippy]

come the Olympics the UK will be united. Thats when I always notice the real connection between the UK nations. They all fly the union jack.

good luck to a referendum after that

[arista]

Originally Posted by Zippy

come the Olympics the UK will be united. Thats when I always notice the real connection between the UK nations. They all fly the union jack.

good luck to a referendum after that

Yes its after that Event.


Not a Problem.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by arista

Not a Problem.

it will be a problem if youre hoping for a republic

If its a no vote there won't be another referendum for many many years

[arista]

Originally Posted by Zippy

it will be a problem if youre hoping for a republic

If its a no vote there won't be another referendum for many many years

They are doing it when more want it.
And times will be even harder.


Look what went down with Cleggs Vote Mess
2 to 1 against his rush failed vote job.

[arista]

Alex Salmond can do no wrong after biggest victory margin in Scottish political history

The scale of the Nationalists' win is so great that Labour might never recover, with profound consequences not only in Holyrood but in Westminster. Independence for Scotland and the end of the United Kingdom suddenly seems possible


From todays Observer.



Utter Bliss



If Scotland becomes a Republic
it will Kill the Labour party of England.

[joeysteele]

It's never going to happen I believe.
Independence would be a disaster not only for the rest of the UK but also for Scotland, and if the unthinkable did happen as that devastation hit it would be the Govt that was in power at the time that would never recover from that break up.

However, the referendum can be held but the whole UK parliament as Sovereign parliament is the only one who can actually grant Independence and can you arista or anyone else see the Conservative,Labour and Lib Dem parties allowing independence to be granted. of course not,they are all staunch Unionsit parties and on this issue they would speak as one party. All coming together to reject the independence call.

Alex Salmond and the SNP can hold the referendum but what they cannot do is make it binding to the whole UK parliament at Westminster.
This is never going to happen I am so confident to say that never in my lifetime (I hope I have a long way to go only being 19), will the Scots ever actually vote for independence and also at the next election when it comes, I also believe the Scots will give Labour as many seats as it got in 2010 and likely more for those elections to the Westminster parliament.

The Lib Dem protest votes that gave the SNP this great succes are only loaned to them,in a Westminster general election, some will go back to the Lib Dems and others to likely Labour.The SNP, come the westmister election, will end up again behind Labour, the Lib Dems well down on past elections and the Conservatives stuck, due to the massive hatred that remains for the Conservatives overall in Scotland.