[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15116064

The Department of Transport is to launch a consultation on increasing the speed limit on England and Wales' motorways from 70mph to 80mph.

Transport Secretary Philip Hammond said the current limit, introduced in 1965, was out of date due to "huge advances in safety and motoring technology".

The consultation begins this year with a view to raising the limit in 2013.

The Department for Transport says as many as 49% of drivers flout the current 70mph limit.

It says advances in technology have made cars much safer, contributing to a drop of more than 75% in the number of people killed on British roads since the 70mph limit was introduced.

As a result, it says it is time to look again at whether the current limit is "still appropriate".

Mr Hammond said England and Wales' roads "should be the arteries of a healthy economy".

He added: "Now it is time to put Britain back in the fast lane of global economies and look again at the motorway speed limit which is nearly 50 years old, and out of date thanks to huge advances in safety and motoring technology.

"Increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph would generate economic benefits of hundreds of millions of pounds through shorter journey times."

Mr Hammond also said that motoring technology has "moved on enormously" from when the original limit was introduced.

"Cars are much safer, they have more sophisticated equipment now than they did 40 or so years ago. They are capable of driving safely at higher speeds. There are enormous economic benefits to be had by increasing the speed limit and shortening journey times.

"And the current limit has lost its legitimacy. We all know that many, many motorists who are otherwise law-abiding citizens routinely ignore the 70 miles per hour limit."

'Empty gesture'

The government says road safety remains a priority, and says it is taking action to tackle uninsured drivers and driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

BBC political correspondent Vicki Young said there had been some concerns within the cabinet about the change - Health Secretary Andrew Lansley is said to be concerned about road safety and and Energy Secretary Chris Huhne was worried about the pollution impact.

Professor Stephen Glaister, director of the RAC Foundation, said: "There are good reasons for making 80 the new 70, and good reasons not to. Drivers travelling that 10mph quicker might reach their destination sooner but will use about 20% more fuel and emit 20% more CO2.

"There is also likely to be a slight increase in road casualties. And what about enforcement? If police follow existing guidelines, many people could do 90mph before action is taken."

Stephen Joseph, chief executive of Campaign for Better Transport, said: "Increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph would not help the economy and would increase costs for drivers.

"It would also add to pollution and increase road casualties. Responsible motorists know that driving steadily at or below 70mph is most fuel-efficient, reduces jams and is safer.

"This is an empty gesture that in the end would not benefit anyone."

I'm in the "NO" camp .....

Cars may well be "safer" and more sophisticated but many drivers are still irresponsible and reckless - a higher maximum speed will inevitably lead to more, and worse, accidents .....

[Tom]

Does anyone actually stick to the limit? I usually do 85-90 and am pretty comfortable with that

If anyone can't handle doing 80mph then they shouldn't be on the motorway and more to the point they shouldn't be driving

The limit in and around Europe is about 81mph (130kmh) so theres no reason for us to be at 70mph. That limit was invented for when cars couldn't go much faster and it was unsafe to do so

[Livia]

Speed kills more people on the roads than any other single factor, but that's mostly idiots doing 50 through a 30 limit or similar. 80mph is right for a motorway.

While we're talking about motorways... I think all members of the Middle Lane Owners Club should have their bloody licence revoked.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Livia

While we're talking about motorways... I think all members of the Middle Lane Owners Club should have their bloody licence revoked.

Actually couldn't agree more. If theres a line of trucks then fair enough but when its quiet ALWAYS GO TO THE LEFT and only go right when you're going faster than the car on your left. I really don't grasp whats so hard about that. its usually Micra drivers doing 60mph as well

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

Speed kills more people on the roads than any other single factor, but that's mostly idiots doing 50 through a 30 limit or similar. 80mph is right for a motorway.

While we're talking about motorways... I think all members of the Middle Lane Owners Club should have their bloody licence revoked.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Tom

Does anyone actually stick to the limit? I usually do 85-90 and am pretty comfortable with that

Frankly, I hope you get caught by the police breaking the speed limit and are prosecuted to the full extent of the law .....

The faster your speed, the harder the impact!

With each increase in the miles per hour over the prescribed speed limit, you are at a greater risk of meeting with an accident. According to certain statistics, every 10 mph that a driver drives over the speed limit of 50 mph, he increases his risk of dying in a car crash two times. For instance, if you are travelling at 80 mph the chances of dying in a car crash increases 8 times.

http://www.southwales-fire.gov.uk/En...fSpeeding.aspx

Motorway accident claims and some of the causes

Although, statistically, UK drivers are less likely to be involved in a motorway accident than one on an A-road or residential road, the sheer speed at which motorway crashes occur means that a high proportion result in death or the kind of serious personal injury that necessitates a motorway accident claim.

Above all, what is worrying for the motorway user is the prevalence of certain attitudes and habits as revealed in the Think! Road Safety Annual Survey that threaten the safety of all.

The survey tells us that 37% of car, van and lorry drivers carry on motoring even when they are too tired. Perhaps it should come as no surprise then to learn that 10% of work-related drivers admit to having fallen asleep behind the wheel during the past 12 months.

It also tells us that 33% of the motoring public think it is perfectly safe to drive at 90mph on a motorway when there is no traffic; a chilling statistic when it is considered that every day in the UK 9 people will be killed and a further 78 suffer serious personal injury in accidents associated with excessive speed. It is also worth considering just how inadequate the braking response time is at such a speed; with most drivers taking, at best, half a second to brake, there is no room for error when travelling at 90mph. It should be of concern that, according to the Department for Transport, "traffic on motorways has grown faster (27 per cent) over the last ten years than any other road type.

http://www.youclaim.co.uk/Car/motorw...e-pressure.htm

[MTVN]

Not sure if this is true but my driving instructor told me that the biggest cause of accidents on motorways was actually tailgating not speeding. Really it's not that dangerous to drive at 80mph on the motorways, cars safety features have improved a lot over the years and it would definitely help ease conjestion. And Omah you might say that drivers are just as bad as ever but I'm not sure that's true, it now requires a lot more learning and tuition to pass your test now and they really make sure that you are a safe enough driver. The average amount of time to take to pass your test is apparently over 40 hours of lessons and 20 hours of private driving, that's a hell of a lot more than used to be required

[Omah]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Not sure if this is true but my driving instructor told me that the biggest cause of accidents on motorways was actually tailgating not speeding.

He/she's right :

http://www.rtaconsult.co.uk/motorwayaccident.php

Below represent the main causes of accidents on our motorways today:

1. Following to closely to the car in front
2. Weather conditions
3. Tiredness or a lack of concentration
4. Problems associated with breakdowns

But ..... if you "tailgate" at 30 and collide, you'll have some bent metal and a bit of whiplash - if you "tailgate" at 90 and collide (due to driver error), you, your car and many of those around you will probably be crushed, mangled and burned beyond recognition .....

Really it's not that dangerous to drive at 80mph on the motorways, cars safety features have improved a lot over the years and it would definitely help ease conjestion.

"Dangerous" is a subjective term which the cocoon of car safety relegates to the back of most drivers' minds .....

YOUR car may be in perfect condition, but the idiot behind you may be driving a car with bald tyres, poor brakes and a steering wheel that comes off in his hands .....

Congestion is nothing to do with speed - it's caused by traffic build-up :

Traffic on motorways has grown faster (27 per cent) over the last ten years than any other road type.

Source: Department of Transport

And Omah you might say that drivers are just as bad as ever but I'm not sure that's true, it now requires a lot more learning and tuition to pass your test now and they really make sure that you are a safe enough driver. The average amount of time to take to pass your test is apparently over 40 hours of lessons and 20 hours of private driving, that's a hell of a lot more than used to be required

Some drivers don't takes tests, some took one years ago and some forget the lessons as soon as they get in their hot hatch :

Driver error is present in 90% of motorway accidents (with mechanical failure accounting for only 10%).

Source: Smart Driving 2008

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Speed kills more people on the roads than any other single factor, but that's mostly idiots doing 50 through a 30 limit or similar. 80mph is right for a motorway.

While we're talking about motorways... I think all members of the Middle Lane Owners Club should have their bloody licence revoked.

Livia for Transport Minister please, Totally excellent and common sense post as is usual from you Livia.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Omah

Frankly, I hope you get caught by the police breaking the speed limit and are prosecuted to the full extent of the law .....

I have been caught speeding quite a few times. Normally they just let me off but I had a speed awareness course and later got 3 points- 1 for doing 34mph in a 30 zone and the other for doing 59mph in a 50 zone, even though its a road that goes from 60 to 50 and the road stays the same.

I've never been prosecuted for doing 80 down the motorway even though I've gone past many cameras doing that, and if you use common sense when you're driving then you'll be fine. Don't go faster than the person in front of you, and if you want to then overtake them and move back into that lane. If someones tailgating then move out of their way if you can or slow down if you can't. Reduce speed for bends, and reduce speed for certain weather conditions and most of all leave a big enough gap between you and the person in front. A lower speed limit doesn't automatically make you a good/better/safer driver, its about how you drive and how you react to what you're faced with. I think I'm a good and safe driver.

If you've got a good enough attention span and keep to the basics ie checking mirrors then theres no way at all how you can have an accident on the motorway. You don't even have to use your clutch for the most post, its just constant acceleration.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Tom

I think I'm a good and safe driver.

Of course you do ..... everybody thinks they are, but not everybody is - 90% of mororway accidents involve driver error .....

Big Pile up on Motorway :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7cyQAE-L9A

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Omah

Of course you do ..... everybody thinks they are, but not everybody is - 90% of mororway accidents involve driver error .....

Big Pile up on Motorway :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7cyQAE-L9A

Not everyone thinks they can drive well. I've never had an accident in 5 years when I use the motorway more or less every day and have driven abroad too, including Spain which is notorious for bad drivers

You can post all the statistics and youtube clips you want, but you seem to be overlooking the main statistic for road safety. Motorways are statistically the safest roads. That pile up is pretty obviously caused by the rain and if you're doing to drive at full speed or over the limit in the rain on a busy motorway then you're a complete idiot

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Tom

Not everyone thinks they can drive well. I've never had an accident in 5 years when I use the motorway more or less every day

You may be tempting fate .....

Originally Posted by Tom

You can post all the statistics and youtube clips you want, but you seem to be overlooking the main statistic for road safety. Motorways are statistically the safest roads. That pile up is pretty obviously caused by the rain and if you're doing to drive at full speed or over the limit in the rain on a busy motorway then you're a complete idiot

You seem to be overlooking the point that fewer accidents happen per mile on motorways, but when they happen, usually through driver error (including over-confidence and speeding), the result is carnage and frequently death - you could easily be doing your good, safe driving at 90mph when somebody else doing 120mph clips and spins you into the following traffic - at that speed you would be seriously injured, if not killed, and so would many other good, safe drivers - the video is a classic example illustrating how the innocent become victims and the guilty escape unscathed - even if you avoid injury in such a crash, unravelling the dozens of insurance claims (including unqualified and uninsured drivers) would take months .....

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Omah

You seem to be overlooking the point that fewer accidents happen per mile on motorways, but when they happen, usually through driver error (including over-confidence and speeding), the result is carnage and frequently death - you could easily be doing your good, safe driving at 90mph when somebody else doing 120mph clips and spins you into the following traffic - at that speed you would be seriously injured, if not killed, and so would many other good, safe drivers - the video is a classic example illustrating how the innocent become victims and the guilty escape unscathed - even if you avoid injury in such a crash, unravelling the dozens of insurance claims (including unqualified and uninsured drivers) would take months .....

But driver error is a fault for most accidents. You could be in a stationary car or doing 70mph and get hit at 120mph which could still have the same effect you mention. And if I saw someone coming up behind me at 120mph and I was going slower, I'd definitely move out the way to begin with. I check my mirrors all the time.

Besides, doing 80mph isn't significantly over the 70mph limit and thats the speed limit proposal. Doing 120mph is downright taking the piss and doing almost double the speed limit. Its completely different. If you use your common sense and keep aware of whats going on around you when you're driving at high speeds (within reason) then you'll be fine.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Tom

But driver error is a fault for most accidents. You could be in a stationary car or doing 70mph and get hit at 120mph which could still have the same effect you mention. And if I saw someone coming up behind me at 120mph and I was going slower, I'd definitely move out the way to begin with. I check my mirrors all the time.

Besides, doing 80mph isn't significantly over the 70mph limit and thats the speed limit proposal. Doing 120mph is downright taking the piss and doing almost double the speed limit. Its completely different. If you use your common sense and keep aware of whats going on around you when you're driving at high speeds (within reason) then you'll be fine.

If you say so .....

Let me know what you think when you've driven for another 5 years .....

[MTVN]

Actually I was reading today how South Korea has the highest number of road deaths a year per 100,000 of the population and the maximum speed limit there; 68mph. They have more than twice the number of fatalities as Germany which has no maximum speed limit at all on some roads. It's just common sense really, basically all cars are now designed to go over 70 safely, most can reach up to 100, that was unthinkable when the 70 limit was introduced back in 1965

[Omah]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Actually I was reading today how South Korea has the highest number of road deaths a year per 100,000 of the population and the maximum speed limit there; 68mph. They have more than twice the number of fatalities as Germany which has no maximum speed limit at all on some roads. It's just common sense really, basically all cars are now designed to go over 70 safely, most can reach up to 100, that was unthinkable when the 70 limit was introduced back in 1965

Cars may be safer, drivers aren't - surveys of Britain's motorways indicate that over 3,000 serious collisions occur every year :

On March 10th 1997, in six separate incidents involving 160 vehicles on the M42, 3 people died and 21 people were seriously injured and a further 83 were hurt. There was extremely dense fog and many drivers were travelling far too fast for the conditions. A second accident occurred on the other side of the road when "rubber-necking" drivers slowed to gaze at the incident. This time over 30 vehicles where involved in what has been described as "twenty minutes of terror".

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Tom

I usually do 85-90 and am pretty comfortable with that

So, if the limit is increased by 10 mph, will you stick to 85-90 or move out of your comfort zone up to 95-100?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Omah

So, if the limit is increased by 10 mph, will you stick to 85-90 or move out of your comfort zone up to 95-100?

No. I've edged up to 100 before without realising, tends to be on straight and empty roads, but I'll never go out of my comfort zone or drive at a speed where I'll be out of control. I'd probably stick around 85.

I'd guess that if the speed limit does go up, they're going to crack down on speeding a lot more than they currently do. The official leeway puts the current absolute maximum at 77mph but you don't really get prosecuted for anything under 82/83. They won't be willing to let people go over 88mph.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Tom

I have been caught speeding quite a few times. Normally they just let me off but I had a speed awareness course and later got 3 points- 1 for doing 34mph in a 30 zone and the other for doing 59mph in a 50 zone, even though its a road that goes from 60 to 50 and the road stays the same.

I've never been prosecuted for doing 80 down the motorway even though I've gone past many cameras doing that, and if you use common sense when you're driving then you'll be fine. Don't go faster than the person in front of you, and if you want to then overtake them and move back into that lane. If someones tailgating then move out of their way if you can or slow down if you can't. Reduce speed for bends, and reduce speed for certain weather conditions and most of all leave a big enough gap between you and the person in front. A lower speed limit doesn't automatically make you a good/better/safer driver, its about how you drive and how you react to what you're faced with. I think I'm a good and safe driver.

If you've got a good enough attention span and keep to the basics ie checking mirrors then theres no way at all how you can have an accident on the motorway. You don't even have to use your clutch for the most post, its just constant acceleration.

Not been driving that long yet you've already 25% of the way to losing your licence.

As for your final paragraph. What utter nonsense - especially the last 4 words.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Not been driving that long yet you've already 25% of the way to losing your licence.

As for your final paragraph. What utter nonsense - especially the last 4 words.

... points which run out in about 2 months. so unless I do something terrible I'm nowhere near losing my license.

Whats 'utter nonsense' about my final paragraph? If you've not got a good attention span and can't be aware of whats going on around you then you shouldn't be on the road because you'll cause a crash. And all you do on a motorway as far as speed goes is accelerate a bit, ease off, accelerate a bit more, ease off again and repeat. Its not often you need to start changing down gears unless its a bad motorway thats always packed, but for the most part and the ones I use (other than the M6) its pretty simple to drive on and I think motorway driving is a lot easier and safer than city driving

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Tom

... points which run out in about 2 months. so unless I do something terrible I'm nowhere near losing my license.

Whats 'utter nonsense' about my final paragraph? If you've not got a good attention span and can't be aware of whats going on around you then you shouldn't be on the road because you'll cause a crash. And all you do on a motorway as far as speed goes is accelerate a bit, ease off, accelerate a bit more, ease off again and repeat. Its not often you need to start changing down gears unless its a bad motorway thats always packed, but for the most part and the ones I use (other than the M6) its pretty simple to drive on and I think motorway driving is a lot easier and safer than city driving

It's irrelevant how long your points have remaining. The point I was making was that given the short amount of years you have been driving - you've managed to rack up points that equate to 1/4 of the way to losing your licence already.


If you are quite serious in not being able to see what is wrong about your final paragraph - I hope you don't drive around the motorways in my part of the word.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

If you are quite serious in not being able to see what is wrong about your final paragraph - I hope you don't drive around the motorways in my part of the word.

Describe to me how you drive on a motorway then and where I'm going wrong. In fact I'd love to know how you get your car up to speed if you don't keep touching on your accelerator, could save me a bomb on petrol.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Tom

If you've not got a good attention span and can't be aware of whats going on around you then you shouldn't be on the road because you'll cause a crash.

That'll include most drivers under 30 and over 55, at a guess .....

http://www.newsinsurances.co.uk/blog...roads/01691822

A recent survey by has found that van drivers are overwhelmingly considered the worst behaved on UK roads. The next worse were young drivers, older drivers, taxi drivers and school-run mothers. The poll, conducted by a motor insurance comparison service, also revealed that lorry drivers were considered the best drivers on the road.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Tom

Describe to me how you drive on a motorway then and where I'm going wrong.

I suggest you consider having a recheck at what affects motorway driving, and causes of accidents. It's not all about having a good attention span etc. It tends to be the things beyond 'your' control that cause the accidents - not 'you'.

Now that can be sudden queues, weather conditions, accidents, debris on the road, spillages, people cutting in suddenly, tailgating as has been discussed, others falling asleep, others having to hit brakes suddenly, car failure, a million things.

Cruising along a high speeds, limits the chances of being able to react safely to any of the above.

and it's most certainly not a case of 'it's just constant accleration' as you stated earlier.