[RodHull]

For 2 days now Twins haters and Denise lovers have been painting THAT argument as some appalling case of bullying directed at Denise, nothing could be further from the truth.

That night the twins and Nicola were having fun on their own, they shouted to Denise when he music started so she could come and join in. Denise then in her own drunken boundary breaking way decided to take things to far with a girl she barely knows and says she doesn't like by yanking her pyjama bottoms down.

Granted this was done as a joke, a really bad ill place joke, but it wasn't done maliciously. Karissa then got a bit weird, said she wasn't cool with it but largely everything was ok, THEN Denise not knowing when to back the **** up decided to pretend she was doing it again... Even then Karissa just gets annoyed goes and tells Frankie and Romeo who happen to be outside, they both laugh it off (probably not helpful) and say to calm down, she then asks Kristina to step in, when she doesn't Karissa then goes to the diary room.

Its at this stage that about 75% of posters here seem to remember a totally different show to what actually happened.

From this point onward Karissa pretty much exclusively spent all her time in the diary room apart from at the very end of the show. She over reacted a bit, was a bit drunk and made some silly threats about sueing BB, which im sure the production team found hilarious. At this stage she has no clue whats going down in the house.

Meanwhile Kristina is discussing with Denise whats just happened, shes telling Denise that Karissa is quite shy and reserved, however silly this might seem to the neanderthals who believe that all glamour models are 1 step away from prostitutes, thats her sister speaking who was at this stage is quite calm and trying to explain to denise that although it doesnt seem a big deal her sister is upset and she will defend her regardless. Remember at this stage as well Kristina doesn't know whats going in the Diary room, she doesn't know what her sister is saying or doing just that shes upset.

Next Frankie gets involved and starts defending Denise saying it was only a joke, despite him not being there and having no clue what happened, he also keeps repeating 'CALM DOWN' in a really annoying tone. At this point Kristina gets quite annoyed, understandably. Her sister is upset and she has a 19 year old perv who has spent weeks making lewd comments at them telling her to clam down while he has no clue what happened.

Then its flashpoint (watch it back) spurred on by Frankies defense Denise says "Look love you do get your tits out for a living" as though to excuse her behaviour, then and only then does Kristina get annoyed. And I totally understand why.

Meanwhile Nicola has decided to try and calm things down by removing Kristina so she could explain that denise is just being drunk denise and didnt mean any real harm. Then Frankie and Denise start attacking Nicola for getting involved. Nicola even stands at the door, the turning point of the argument when it got nasty and says 'Look Denise do me a favour if you want this to kick off I will let her back in' at which point Frankie (everyones HERO) says just 'let them talk', when its clear TALKING is the last thing that will happen.

Then Denise continues to try and defend her actions, meanwhile Frankie is just repeating 'calm down your shouting' which is the single best way to NOT calm someone down who is annoyed and feels they arent being heard. He then continues to push Kristinas buttons to make her more annoyed. THEN Nicola steps in and says "look I might be wrong saying this but I was a page 3 model for years your cool with flashing your boobs, im not, im not comfortable with that if you'd pulled my pants down I would be upset as well"

Its worth noting at this stage this is the first person who has defended or stuck up for Kristina since the argument started, in contrast Frankie has sat goading Kristina and egging Denise on the entire time.

Then what turns out to be the real argument happens, Denise says something like, look Nicola there is stuff I haven't said about you (clearly a childish reaction to Nicola mentioning Denise flashing her boobs) and then spends a minute or two avoiding the issue while she tries to remember some ammunition to attack Nicola with. She then brings up LETTERGATE an issue Denise is completely in the wrong about and hasn't mentioned once to her, indeed she had previously told Nicola she was glad she pressed it. She also says shes jealous of Nicola and the Twins being close since Natalie/Georgia left...

Around this time Kristina gets removed by BB cause Karissa has asked for her. Now its Nicola ON HER OWN. Denise then gets herself more and more worked up and upset, despite the fact nobody has done anything to her all night, and starts wailing like a banshee turning on the tears and throwing all sorts of unfair s*** at Nicola who sits looking bemused and hurt. By the time Nicola asks to leave and properly gets really upset only 1 other HM (Michael) even attempted to defend her, even though she was totally in the right.

When she goes to the diary room the twins then leaving ask why she is so upset and get really annoyed at Gareth and Frankie who are laughing on the couches. Gareth says 'it wasnt me girls ask her yourself' and frankie just laughs.

Frankie, HERO Frankie, who was so MATURE according to some people here then admits OPENLY to Gareth that he enjoyed watching them get angry earlier and did it deliberately.

And this guy is now favourite to win?? Some people seem to have this image of the twins and Nicola ganging up on Denise and good samaritan Frankie defending a poor old lady.

THAT ISNT WHAT HAPPENED.

At no stage all night was Denise ganged up on, the only reason she got so upset was when she attacked Nicola she started screaming and crying about an event 2 days ago. She wasnt even especially upset when the argument was about the Twins.

In fact the only people who were 'ganged up on' was Kristina by Frankie and Denise and Nicola by Frankie and Denise.

Thats the facts. But people remember what they want cause they dont like the twins or nicola, just like frankie doesnt like the twins cause they find him gross and voted out kirk so he saw an opportunity to stitch them up.

In the next episode Denise herself admitted to Nicola
“I thought that you didn’t like me any more, so everything you said I took personally"

Look back at the argument and you clearly see when Denise spots her opportunity to hurt and attack Nicola cause she wanted to punish her. It was despicable.

As an aside, during the first DR visit from Karissa amongst her silly ranting about lawyers she says "I have Frankie in there who sexually harasses me every day and Im fed up with it"

I know lots of people will think, who cares shes a glamour model. But I not only think thats sick thinking but sad that someone like Frankie who basically spurred the whole thing on and treats women like objects is now favourite to win cause the UK is xenophobic toward Americans.

The only HM to show any respect for themself was Romeo, hes a true gentleman and he is going to lose over a yobby kid who enjoys pervving over and winding up women.

Nice one British public...

[Ammi]

...Uh huh.and even though 'BB is in no doubt thet your behaviour was unacceptable'
...yet still no apology

[Ammi]

....as for the 'getting your tits out of a living'
...who's the fool there...Denise gets them out in public for free

[Jake.]

So this is less of a 'what really happened' and more of a 'my take on the situation is...'. Lets not forget that Nicola gives as good as she gets, don't label her as the samaritan.

[BadBoyMcCoy]

Originally Posted by RodHull

For 2 days now Twins haters and Denise lovers have been painting THAT argument as some appalling case of bullying directed at Denise, nothing could be further from the truth.

That night the twins and Nicola were having fun on their own, they shouted to Denise when he music started so she could come and join in. Denise then in her own drunken boundary breaking way decided to take things to far with a girl she barely knows and says she doesn't like by yanking her pyjama bottoms down.

Granted this was done as a joke, a really bad ill place joke, but it wasn't done maliciously. Karissa then got a bit weird, said she wasn't cool with it but largely everything was ok, THEN Denise not knowing when to back the **** up decided to pretend she was doing it again... Even then Karissa just gets annoyed goes and tells Frankie and Romeo who happen to be outside, they both laugh it off (probably not helpful) and say to calm down, she then asks Kristina to step in, when she doesn't Karissa then goes to the diary room.

Its at this stage that about 75% of posters here seem to remember a totally different show to what actually happened.

From this point onward Karissa pretty much exclusively spent all her time in the diary room apart from at the very end of the show. She over reacted a bit, was a bit drunk and made some silly threats about sueing BB, which im sure the production team found hilarious. At this stage she has no clue whats going down in the house.

Meanwhile Kristina is discussing with Denise whats just happened, shes telling Denise that Karissa is quite shy and reserved, however silly this might seem to the neanderthals who believe that all glamour models are 1 step away from prostitutes, thats her sister speaking who was at this stage is quite calm and trying to explain to denise that although it doesnt seem a big deal her sister is upset and she will defend her regardless. Remember at this stage as well Kristina doesn't know whats going in the Diary room, she doesn't know what her sister is saying or doing just that shes upset.

Next Frankie gets involved and starts defending Denise saying it was only a joke, despite him not being there and having no clue what happened, he also keeps repeating 'CALM DOWN' in a really annoying tone. At this point Kristina gets quite annoyed, understandably. Her sister is upset and she has a 19 year old perv who has spent weeks making lewd comments at them telling her to clam down while he has no clue what happened.

Then its flashpoint (watch it back) spurred on by Frankies defense Denise says "Look love you do get your tits out for a living" as though to excuse her behaviour, then and only then does Kristina get annoyed. And I totally understand why.

Meanwhile Nicola has decided to try and calm things down by removing Kristina so she could explain that denise is just being drunk denise and didnt mean any real harm. Then Frankie and Denise start attacking Nicola for getting involved. Nicola even stands at the door, the turning point of the argument when it got nasty and says 'Look Denise do me a favour if you want this to kick off I will let her back in' at which point Frankie (everyones HERO) says just 'let them talk', when its clear TALKING is the last thing that will happen.

Then Denise continues to try and defend her actions, meanwhile Frankie is just repeating 'calm down your shouting' which is the single best way to NOT calm someone down who is annoyed and feels they arent being heard. He then continues to push Kristinas buttons to make her more annoyed. THEN Nicola steps in and says "look I might be wrong saying this but I was a page 3 model for years your cool with flashing your boobs, im not, im not comfortable with that if you'd pulled my pants down I would be upset as well"

Its worth noting at this stage this is the first person who has defended or stuck up for Kristina since the argument started, in contrast Frankie has sat goading Kristina and egging Denise on the entire time.

Then what turns out to be the real argument happens, Denise says something like, look Nicola there is stuff I haven't said about you (clearly a childish reaction to Nicola mentioning Denise flashing her boobs) and then spends a minute or two avoiding the issue while she tries to remember some ammunition to attack Nicola with. She then brings up LETTERGATE an issue Denise is completely in the wrong about and hasn't mentioned once to her, indeed she had previously told Nicola she was glad she pressed it. She also says shes jealous of Nicola and the Twins being close since Natalie/Georgia left...

Around this time Kristina gets removed by BB cause Karissa has asked for her. Now its Nicola ON HER OWN. Denise then gets herself more and more worked up and upset, despite the fact nobody has done anything to her all night, and starts wailing like a banshee turning on the tears and throwing all sorts of unfair s*** at Nicola who sits looking bemused and hurt. By the time Nicola asks to leave and properly gets really upset only 1 other HM (Michael) even attempted to defend her, even though she was totally in the right.

When she goes to the diary room the twins then leaving ask why she is so upset and get really annoyed at Gareth and Frankie who are laughing on the couches. Gareth says 'it wasnt me girls ask her yourself' and frankie just laughs.

Frankie, HERO Frankie, who was so MATURE according to some people here then admits OPENLY to Gareth that he enjoyed watching them get angry earlier and did it deliberately.

And this guy is now favourite to win?? Some people seem to have this image of the twins and Nicola ganging up on Denise and good samaritan Frankie defending a poor old lady.

THAT ISNT WHAT HAPPENED.

At no stage all night was Denise ganged up on, the only reason she got so upset was when she attacked Nicola she started screaming and crying about an event 2 days ago. She wasnt even especially upset when the argument was about the Twins.

In fact the only people who were 'ganged up on' was Kristina by Frankie and Denise and Nicola by Frankie and Denise.

Thats the facts. But people remember what they want cause they dont like the twins or nicola, just like frankie doesnt like the twins cause they find him gross and voted out kirk so he saw an opportunity to stitch them up.

In the next episode Denise herself admitted to Nicola
“I thought that you didn’t like me any more, so everything you said I took personally"

Look back at the argument and you clearly see when Denise spots her opportunity to hurt and attack Nicola cause she wanted to punish her. It was despicable.

As an aside, during the first DR visit from Karissa amongst her silly ranting about lawyers she says "I have Frankie in there who sexually harasses me every day and Im fed up with it"

I know lots of people will think, who cares shes a glamour model. But I not only think thats sick thinking but sad that someone like Frankie who basically spurred the whole thing on and treats women like objects is now favourite to win cause the UK is xenophobic toward Americans.

The only HM to show any respect for themself was Romeo, hes a true gentleman and he is going to lose over a yobby kid who enjoys pervving over and winding up women.

Nice one British public...

Pretty accurate IMO

[SourMango]

What happened is that Karissa intentionally showed a bit of arse cheek on a tv show, thus consenting to showing a bit of arse cheek on said tv show.

Then later Karissa unintentionally showed a bit of the same arse cheek on the same tv show.

Then made a huge fuss about the second one.

[chuff me dizzy]

Is this FACT or you own take on it ?

[SourMango]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Is this FACT or you own take on it ?

Mine is a factual take on it.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by JH95

So this is less of a 'what relly happened' and more of a 'my take on the situation is...'. Lets not forget that Nicola gives as good as she gets, don't label her as the samaritan.

Spot on ,you cannot claim FACTS when it your own take on things, well you can ,but expect the pi$$ to be dragged out of you

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by JH95

So this is less of a 'what relly happened' and more of a 'my take on the situation is...'. Lets not forget that Nicola gives as good as she gets, don't label her as the samaritan.

No it is exactly what happened... the episode is available to watch for free on 5s website, please watch it yourself and point out to me where im wrong.

For the record I dont like Nicola, vile person in real life, but she genuinely didnt do much wrong during that argument and got totally shot down for her troubles with nasty lies that were designed to hurt her by an old drunk, who, I might add continued drinking throughout the entire argument and show...

Please explain what Nicola did at any stage to have Frankie and Denise attack her before denise threw accusations at her?

[Marc]

Yes Denise was definitely in the wrong, she started it all.. but the Twins could have taken it a little better, had a little banter with Denise/the whole house.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by SourMango

What happened is that Karissa intentionally showed a bit of arse cheek on a tv show, thus consenting to showing a bit of arse cheek on said tv show.

Then later Karissa unintentionally showed a bit of the same arse cheek on the same tv show.

Then made a huge fuss about the second one.

Oh right...intentionally and unintentionally..they're quite similar aren't they
..a bit like consentually and rape

[MTVN]

Great post

[lostalex]

The Twins are insecure about being seen as sluts, and Denise is insecure about being a slut, so she pulled down Karissa's pants, to try to literally bring the twins down to her level. The Twins had more self-respect than Denise bargained for. the Twins proved that they have more self respect, and Denise proved that she has no respect for women at all.

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Spot on ,you cannot claim FACTS when it your own take on things, well you can ,but expect the pi$$ to be dragged out of you

I challenge you to, rewatch the episode and please I beg you embarrass me by pointing out all the things I got wrong...

Or perhaps you won't cause you know you can't? Put up or shut up I say

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by Marc

Yes Denise was definitely in the wrong, she started it all.. but the Twins could have taken it a little better, had a little banter with Denise/the whole house.

This wasn't the kick off point for the row though. Like I say the actual nasty argument which leaves both Denise and Nicola in tears wasn't even to do with the twins, it was Denise chucking up crap from days ago she'd previously said she was fine with.

Its weird but watch it back and its true. The twins barely featured in the whole show from the start of that argument except on their own in the diary room.

[Samuel.]

I love you.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marc

Yes Denise was definitely in the wrong, she started it all.. but the Twins could have taken it a little better, had a little banter with Denise/the whole house.

..maybe they would have...if she hadn't kept pushing...'you will forgive me though' ....'but you'll forgive me ..you will forgive me..' ....
Karissa already said..not right now...tomorrow

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by RodHull

No it is exactly what happened... the episode is available to watch for free on 5s website, please watch it yourself and point out to me where im wrong.

For the record I dont like Nicola, vile person in real life, but she genuinely didnt do much wrong during that argument and got totally shot down for her troubles with nasty lies that were designed to hurt her by an old drunk, who, I might add continued drinking throughout the entire argument and show...

Please explain what Nicola did at any stage to have Frankie and Denise attack her before denise threw accusations at her?

She was more than rude to Frankie and Denise, and had she had realised that it was none of her business, things could have died down quicker. What makes me laugh is that the two slappers were fine with Nicola defending their corner (even though it wasn't her place) yet they talked to Frankie like dirt for speaking up for Denise.

[SourMango]

Originally Posted by Ammi

Oh right...intentionally and unintentionally..they're quite similar aren't they
..a bit like consentually and rape

No.

A bit like consenting to show a bit of arse cheek on a tv show then threatening to sue when they same arse cheek is shown on the same tv show.

Nothing to do with rape at all.

You people minimise the seriousness of rape by comparing it with this.

[lostalex]

Why should the twins have friendly banter and let it go with someone who just NOMINATED them to their FACES??? Obviously the twins and Denise were not friends, so how does Denise say that "i do this with my friends so it's okay" well would you put your friends up for NOMINATION denise??

DENISE VOTED FOR THE TWINS ON NOMNIATIONS< LET"S NOT FORGET THAT> AND SHE DID IT TO THEIR FACE.

[HBB1508]

Without taking sides my thoughts are that it would have been a lot less volatile if (and I know this sounds daft) the twins weren't two people. If either were in there on their own the situation could have been contained and dealt with sensibly - I always think twins counting as one contestant have an unfair advantage as they have family to back them up in the house, whereas the rest of them are on their own.

[Livia]

When you say, let's get some perspective... you mean, this is your perspective.

We all saw it, we really don't need to read a long statement about what somebody else saw. What's more, going to all this trouble really does seem like taking it a bit too seriously. All the girls had drunk too much and Frankie is just a gob****e sho doesn't know when to button his lip.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by JH95

She was more than rude to Frankie and Denise, and had she had realised that it was none of her business, things could have died down quicker. What makes me laugh is that the two slappers were fine with Nicola defending their corner (even though it wasn't her place) yet they talked to Frankie like dirt for speaking up for Denise.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by SourMango

What happened is that Karissa intentionally showed a bit of arse cheek on a tv show, thus consenting to showing a bit of arse cheek on said tv show.

Then later Karissa unintentionally showed a bit of the same arse cheek on the same tv show.

Then made a huge fuss about the second one.

You really can't see what a ridiculous statement that is, can you.