[Shaun]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18539463

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg has reacted angrily to Michael Gove's plan to scrap GCSEs in England saying they would create a "two-tier system".

Mr Clegg said the education secretary's announcement was "self-evidently not policy that has been discussed or agreed within the coalition".

The Daily Mail said Mr Gove wants to bring back a system similar to the O-Levels, with CSEs for less able pupils.

He later told MPs the current system was letting children down.

But Mr Clegg, who is at an UN conference on sustainable development in Brazil, said: "I am not in favour of anything that would lead to a two-tier system where children at quite a young age are somehow cast on a scrap heap."

Asked if Mr Gove was wrong to do what he was doing, Mr Clegg said: "Mr Gove is entirely entitled to come up with proposals and then if he wants to we can discuss them within the government.

"It's really important we have an exam system that's fit for the future, and doesn't just hark back to the past. That it really pushes all children across the whole school system and doesn't just cater for a small number of children".

If the plan goes ahead, students would begin studying what the leaked document says will be "tougher" O-level style exams in English, maths and the sciences from September 2014. They would take their exams in 2016.

Less academic pupils would sit a different "more straightforward" exam, like the old CSE.

The ideas, if introduced, would amount to the biggest change to the exams system for a generation.

Following the angry reaction from Lib Dems, Downing Street stressed that the plans were "not there yet" and were going to be put out for consultation.

But a senior Liberal Democrat source said the plan would be a "huge upheaval for very modest gains".

The source continued: "The main problem we have with this is it looks like it sets far too low an aspiration for our young people.

"Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems do not want to return to the divisions we saw in the 1950s."

The source said the party would not accept a policy which would leave "a large number of children behind at a relatively young age".

Some in the party are said to feel today's newspaper report, the first they knew about the plan, was an attempt to bounce them into accepting the changes.

Foreign Office Minister, Jeremy Browne - a Liberal Democrat - told the BBC's Daily Politics: "What will be the guiding principle over rank and file Lib Dems is to have a system where everybody is able to realise their potential, that you don't have glass ceilings put in at different layers."

But it is not just Liberal Democrats MPs, the junior partners in the coalition government with the Conservatives, who are unhappy with the proposals.

Conservative MP Graham Stuart, chair of the Education Select Committee, told BBC Radio 4's The World at One he was "sceptical" about changing the system of secondary school qualifications in England.

He said the plan had "come out of the blue" and asked: "How will it help close the gap between rich and poor? How will it increase social mobility?"

Michael Gove: ''We'd like to see every student in this country able to take world class qualifications''

For Labour, shadow schools minister Kevin Brennan said Mr Gove's plan would take the exam system "back to the 1950s".

"GCSEs may well need improving, but a two-tier exam system which divides children into winners and losers at 14 is not the answer," he said.

Mr Gove was called to Parliament to answer questions from MPs about the leaked plans.

He said the current exams system needed to be improved: "Children are working harder than ever but we are hearing that the system is not working for them. We want to tackle the culture of competitive dumbing down."

He said rigour needed to be restored to the system if England was to keep pace with educational improvements in some other countries.

Russell Hobby, the general secretary of the National Association of Head Teachers, welcomed the move towards having a single exam board per subject, which he said was sensible and would "remove a lot of concerns about the system".

"But a move to a two-tier (exam) system does not sound a good step forward," he added, saying such a change would mean choices about children's futures being taken at too young an age.

As control of education in the UK is devolved, Mr Gove's plans are for England only. It would be up to Wales and Northern Ireland to decide whether to follow suit. In Scotland, pupils take Standard Grades, Highers and Advanced Highers rather than GCSEs and A-levels.

The Education Minister for Wales, Leighton Andrews, has said Wales will not return to O-level-style exams.

This leak seems to have taken officials at the Department for Education by surprise.

The timing is certainly not good, with tens of thousands of teenagers in the final days of their GCSE and A-level exams catching headlines suggesting the government does not think their exams are tough enough.

If ministers decide to go ahead with the proposals and the time-scale given, they cannot afford to hang around. The design and approval of the new exams will take time and that will come after the consultation planned for the autumn.

In Wales and Northern Ireland, the devolved governments will need to decide whether to stay in step with the proposed changes. They could continue to let their schools choose GCSE qualifications from the exam boards, which are private companies.

[Doogle]

So I think that means I'm in the last year of students who did GCSEs I'm special.

I don't know if this will do anything though. Just changing the name... they need to make a lot of changes to it if it's going to be worth doing.

[Saph]

Is this a good thing? I hope it doesnt mean GCSE's become worthless

[Patrick]

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Shaun

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18539463

What the f

[arista]

Originally Posted by Marc

What the f

No its still being worked out.
Leaked by a team member that did
not like the New Direction.


Education Wise
this nation is not good.

Learn a Trade
thats wanted - is the trick.

[CharlieO]

GCSE's are to easy

[arista]

Originally Posted by CharlieO

GCSE's are to easy

Thats the Fecking problem
that Stinking New Labour Education left us.

[joeysteele]

Now it's been leaked and the Lib Dems have jumped off the fence for a minute or two to make token grumbles, this is likely another idea that will get shelved because the plan for the Govt again is to now take listening/consultation time.

Michael Gove actually seems a bright guy to me, however it seems he is not very popular with not only the Lib Dems but some in his own party too.
I cannot see this proposal now gathering any steam at all to be made policy.

[Samuel.]

I agree with Cleggers. A two tier system doesn't sound fair at all.

[Harry!]

The main issue is not that exams are easier, it is the fact that their is more oppotunties to improve your grades through coursework and exam resits that bothers the govt. They say it does not show a true reflection of the potential in the student. Which I find wrong. Many students find exams worrying especially if it is just one final exam, resits give them a second chance if they mess up. The more oppotunites the better well being of the student.

[Niall]

I don't like this. How anyone can think a two tiered system like this is going to be fair and equal is beyond me.

I also don't see the point in this constant shift that the education system seems to be going through. It seems that we can't keep to same exam standard for any more than 10 or 15 years. The constant change will surely be to the detriment of people's education?

I just think this traditional style of exams the tories are trying to bring back is the absolute wrong way to go about it. The way they're changing the A-Levels is absolutely horrid too. Ugh.

[Kizzy]

Well well the tories suggesting an us and them soloution to inner city schooling?
We are officially in reverse, they will bring back grammar schools and secondary moderns for those unfortunates not to pass their 11+ next.

I was in the first year to do GCSE's but not all the year was allowed to sit them you were allocated a 'band', G band sat GCSE and C band CSE.

I have always felt sorry for the one's not given the opportunity to sit GCSE as all employers now require A-C grades at GCSE.
Therefore, won't going back to that system just churn out lots of people who are simply unemployable?

[fruit_cake]

this sounds like a good idea, GCSE's are too easy imo

[Samuel.]

Do they need to be harder? Will that really make them any more valuable? If you're serious about your education you'll be at least going for A-levels anyway, at which point they become worthless.

And there are better ways in improving GCSE's than introducing this two tier system.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

I agree with Cleggers. A two tier system doesn't sound fair at all.

But they are not having that.


Thats what Labour have spun.



Education under New Labour
went like Starbucks.
Everyone going to University
fecked it all up.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

But they are not having that.


Thats what Labour have spun.



Education under New Labour
went like Starbucks.
Everyone going to University
fecked it all up.

Why shouldn't everyone that has the ability go to uni?...
Are you advocating elitism?

[arista]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Why shouldn't everyone that has the ability go to uni?...
Are you advocating elitism?

No
but they did not ,
all want to go.



New Labour started the Elite Education.

[Shaun]

I'm just glad I've been through the education system already... because I would not have got into university with this idea. I believe AS modules are being scrapped too, and those are effectively what made up my grade requirements (UCAS points).

It's just going to widen the gap to appease this notion that "exams are too easy". You try being forced to do an IT course when you're 13.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

No
but they did not ,
all want to go.



New Labour started the Elite Education.

What?...what do you mean they didn't want to go?...Type in a straight line ffs.
No they did not, they gave intelligent children from less priviledged backgrounds the choice.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by arista

But they are not having that.


Thats what Labour have spun.



Education under New Labour
went like Starbucks.
Everyone going to University
fecked it all up.

You're actually ridiculous. Explain to me how seperating children into groups of 'less academic' and 'more academic', and giving them different exams isn't two tiered then.

If introduced this will be nothing but a horribly backwards and elitist system. Then again, you shouldn't really expect anything better than that with the tories I suppose.

[Shaun]

I believe the point arista's making is that there're so many people with a degree now that it's, to some extent (ie. the Daily Mail's perspective), become less valuable to have one.

The problem with that viewpoint, of course, is that the economy is in such a dire state and that jobs are so sparse and largely ignorant of long-term opportunities and employee growth, thanks to the unstoppable greed of corporations, that it's really not the problem of the education system any more. Tampering with the education system and making people artificially "more difficult" is basically like the Spinal Tap scene where you're turning the maximum volume to 11. It's still the same. You're just stripping children of opportunities.

I sure as hell didn't know what I wanted to do when I was 14 (when I had to choose GCSE options). There are still times I'm unsure, and I'm 22. Thankfully I had retakes and modules to pick and choose from and become passionate about - and that that might be taken away from students is just sad.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I believe the point arista's making is that there're so many people with a degree now that it's, to some extent (ie. the Daily Mail's perspective), become less valuable to have one.

The problem with that viewpoint, of course, is that the economy is in such a dire state and that jobs are so sparse and largely ignorant of long-term opportunities and employee growth, thanks to the unstoppable greed of corporations, that it's really not the problem of the education system any more. Tampering with the education system and making people artificially "more difficult" is basically like the Spinal Tap scene where you're turning the maximum volume to 11. It's still the same. You're just stripping children of opportunities.

I sure as hell didn't know what I wanted to do when I was 14 (when I had to choose GCSE options). There are still times I'm unsure, and I'm 22. Thankfully I had retakes and modules to pick and choose from and become passionate about - and that that might be taken away from students is just sad.

Fair point


And yes Shaun, honey
you have had a tough start up
but tonight on BBC4 its David Bowie Night

[arista]

Originally Posted by kizzy

What?...what do you mean they didn't want to go?...Type in a straight line ffs.
No they did not, they gave intelligent children from less priviledged backgrounds the choice.

My Style of writing
will not change.


That Choice will still be there
but also Learning Trades will be there.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

My Style of writing
will not change.


That Choice will still be there
but also Learning Trades will be there.

It's not a style.

What trade can you enter into that do not require English and Maths at GCSE level?