[Nemo123]

I think when Greg Dyke was forced to resign from the BBC over the "sexed-up dossier", it marked the end of when the BBC lost its credibility; when it cowed to the establishment, and did what the govt. told it to do. That's a decade ago. And the BBC has still not recovered.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

Yes - and... ?

Well, if you can see what is going on, why do you assume others can't?

[Nemo123]

Bradley Manning is a selfless human being who dedicated his life to the army of America. He believed he was doing his duty. At some point, in witnessing what he was a party to, he had a crisis of conscience. He released he was a party to murder. Injudicious murder. Not the kind of murder he had signed up for. Plain and simple murder. Afflicted from an army helicopter, on innocent people.
He dared to speak up, and show he world video evidence of the murder he had witnessed. For his crime he has been sentenced to 35 years in prison. For telling the world how 12 or 13 innocent Iraqis were murdered by a trigger-happy Apache gunner murdered innocent Iraqis, he has to go to jail, for 35 years. How wrong, HOW WRONG can the world be let go? We need to reclaim our democracy. We need to take back our freedoms and our wills, and our sense of right and wrong.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Nemo123

Bradley Manning is a selfless human being who dedicated his life to the army of America. He believed he was doing his duty. At some point, in witnessing what he was a party to, he had a crisis of conscience. He released he was a party to murder. Injudicious murder. Not the kind of murder he had signed up for. Plain and simple murder. Afflicted from an army helicopter, on innocent people.
He dared to speak up, and show he world video evidence of the murder he had witnessed. For his crime he has been sentenced to 35 years in prison. For telling the world how 12 or 13 innocent Iraqis were murdered by a trigger-happy Apache gunner murdered innocent Iraqis, he has to go to jail, for 35 years. How wrong, HOW WRONG can the world be let go? We need to reclaim our democracy. We need to take back our freedoms and our wills, and our sense of right and wrong.

He didn't dedicate his whole life to the US Army. He dedicated his life to it (so you say) only up until the point he decided to turn his back on it and make himself judge, jury and executioner. What did you expect the army would do? Pin a medal on him? He was never cut out to be a soldier, I'm surprised they didn't spot that earlier.

You can't train young men to be fighters, send them into a theatre of war and expect them to turn into plaster saints. Any word on what the Apache gunner had seen in his time in Iraq? Any word on the stuff he'd witnessed? I know a few servicemen who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan and lived to tell the tale, and who's lives will never be the same. Where's Bradley Manning's bleeding heart for them?

[Nemo123]

Originally Posted by Livia

He didn't dedicate his whole life to the US Army. He dedicated his life to it (so you say) only up until the point he decided to turn his back on it and make himself judge, jury and executioner. What did you expect the army would do? Pin a medal on him? He was never cut out to be a soldier, I'm surprised they didn't spot that earlier.

You can't train young men to be fighters, send them into a theatre of war and expect them to turn into plaster saints. Any word on what the Apache gunner had seen in his time in Iraq? Any word on the stuff he'd witnessed? I know a few servicemen who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan and lived to tell the tale, and who's lives will never be the same. Where's Bradley Manning's bleeding heart for them?

He didn't make himself "judge, jury and executioner". You're mistaking him with the crew of the Apache helicopter. He didn't kill anybody.

[Kizzy]

Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies.

Robert Kennedy

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Nemo123

He didn't make himself "judge, jury and executioner". You're mistaking him with the crew of the Apache helicopter. He didn't kill anybody.

You make it sound like that was the only information he released... instead of the 500,000 documents he handed over. How could he have known what was in all of those documents? Do you think he read them all before he handed them on?

You say he didn't kill anybody. I'm not sure anyone could put their hand on their heart and say that, seeing that he was charged with "Aiding the Enemy".

[Nedusa]

He was charged with aiding the enemy ... That's a laugh !! The only enemy he was aiding was the US Army, who clearly are the enemy of justice and morality.

The only real power he had was to inform the US public of the unlawful practices being carried out in their name. I personally do not think he should have been jailed for 35 years for this.

To me this is immoral and unjust and the American people need to stand up and reclaim their constitution. Bradley Manning's intentions were honerable, why else would he do this ??

Was he perhaps a secret Muslim sympathiser, or a Communist ? I don't think he is any of those, just a very brave man who has put his personal safety at risk to try and highlight a serious area of concern within the US Army in the current theatre of war .

[GypsyGoth]

I think Chelsea was extremely reckless, not brave at all. She released documents, which as Livia mentioned, she couldn't have read through. She didn't know would happen, if she was gonna get loads loads of her fellow soldiers killed or if it would lead to american embassies getting attacked.

And I don't think she has to be a member of some enemy group to have done what she did. She was just misguided.

35 years seems a fair amount of time for betraying your country the way she did.

[Nedusa]

I have made a new post to reply to the earlier post(s) above. My post is not in agreement with the sentiments expressed in the posts above, although I do respect the opinions expressed by other members on this forum.

Unfortunately the forum moderators have removed my post so if you wish to read it you will have to contact TiBB and quote thread and post number, they may let you see it or not ...

Good to see they are still working at this late hour...!!!!

[Nemo123]

Originally Posted by Livia

You make it sound like that was the only information he released... instead of the 500,000 documents he handed over. How could he have known what was in all of those documents? Do you think he read them all before he handed them on?

You say he didn't kill anybody. I'm not sure anyone could put their hand on their heart and say that, seeing that he was charged with "Aiding the Enemy".

I heard he went meticulously through the documents and filtered out anything which might aid the enemy and endanger his comrades in the army. Furthermore he took his concerns up the chain of command to his superiors. In particular the fact that US military intelligence were passing the names of political opponents to the Iraqi authorities who then arrested, imprisoned, tortured and probably killed. These were legitimate political opponents, not terrorists.ssssss