[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Bullying can and does happen in primary schools, and even in nurseries, although at the nursery level it is pretty unsophisticated.

I was bullied in primary school by someone two years below me who was physically heavier than I was, even though I was taller. For no reason at all, she started following me around every interval, pushing me around, hitting me, making nasty comments and getting her friends to gang up on me. Eventually, one day, when she had been pinching and hitting me, I pushed her away. She played the victim card and ran howling to her teacher: I got lectured and threatened in front of her class, and it was reported back to my parents, who lectured and threatened me more. I wasn't given a chance to explain or defend myself.

..I'm not saying that bullying doesn't happen in primary schools just that not everything is bullying and can quite often be clashes of characters..in the case of Jim in the BB house, I don't see anything that would be bullying...obviously we are seeing things differently, if you do...anyway, I'm going to bow out of this thread because I'm just really repeating the same thing...and I was only really giving my opinion on comments about Jim being 'bullied', which imo, he isn't...

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

She says he "gets on my tits" because he's not into her games. Linda was the one who started the accusations of misogynism and sexism, and Luisa is very easily influenced by Linda. I haven't really seen him being particularly so, but men of his generation usually are, even though they don't see it in themselves, so it's hardly surprising and not a cardinal sin. There was a guy on this forum who told me that Jim should rise above Linda's behaviour because she was menopausal and females have hormonal issues. That, for me, is patronising and sexist, and if Jim was coming out with stuff like that then I'd be absolutely in agreement with Luisa and Linda. It still wouldn't excuse their behaviour or the bitching and bullying.

Just because Luisa also thinks Jim is sexist doesn't mean she's being influenced by Linda. They both hate Jim for different reasons, and Luisa is a very girls-first type of a girl as has already been established. I don't know how you can say you haven't seen Jim be sexist when he turned "Luisa isn't going to cook for me or Lionel" into "I'll do the cooking for the boys only." And yesterday had his whole thing about dancing is for girls. I know you're saying there's no excuse for "bullying" (someone actively excluding themselves and victimizing themselves is NOT bullying) but I don't know why you're so quick to excuse blatant sexism and chalk it up to a generational thing. That's concerning to me, especially coming dr a woman.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

If you feel that the bullying he is experiencing now is some sort of payback for all the jokes he's made in the past, then that's your prerogative. I don't. What I do think is appropriate is what Blaize did when he met Jim Davidson.. You can read about it here:

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/201...-up-be-counted

As far as the allegations of historic crimes - people are innocent until they are proven guilty, and there are two sides to every story. A woman I know thought she had a violent husband, but actually she was more violent than he was. It was always her bullying, carping, relentless, critical behaviour which started the arguments and after she had goaded him into losing his rag, she'd act like a victim. She did it to me once: thumping me around the head in an unprovoked attack, then when I put an arm up to shield myself she accused me of hitting her. I am in no way saying that Jim Davidson is not a wife beater. I am saying that we do not know the full story, and he should be charged and given the right to a fair trial before anyone judges him.

No, I don't feel it is payback because I don't believe he is being bullied. Please don't put words into my mouth.
What I said was I don't freaking care about HM's sniping and bitching at him, because he hasn't exactly been blameless himself in the house.
He was a nasty man and I haven't seen any great change in him to make me think he is now a good man. Maybe he's mellowed with age, but I still don't like the person he was. If you want to spend hours on end championing such a man, that is your prerogative.
My stance is - who freaking cares is he isn't having a good time in the house. He wouldn't know what a good time was if it bit him on the ass. He's a spoiled, grumpy git spreading misery and getting back misery in return.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..the member didn't say anything about bullying being a 'payback', just didn't agree that there was any bullying taking place, and I don't see it either...

Perhaps it would be an idea to do a bit more reading on the subject then, because of your position in schools. Bullying does take place in primary schools and it can take insidious and subtle forms. A friend's daughter was driven close to suicide due to subtle (non-violent) mobbing type bullying which her teachers refused to acknowedge or deal with. My sister had to change the school her younger son attended because of relentless bullying which the teachers didn't recognise or acknowledge. The most common complaint of parents whose children are bullied at school is that the school either didn't acknowledge it or didn't do anything about it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Perhaps it would be an idea to do a bit more reading on the subject then, because of your position in schools. Bullying does take place in primary schools and it can take insidious and subtle forms. A friend's daughter was driven close to suicide due to subtle (non-violent) mobbing type bullying which her teachers refused to acknowedge or deal with. My sister had to change the school her younger son attended because of relentless bullying which the teachers didn't recognise or acknowledge. The most common complaint of parents whose children are bullied at school is that the school either didn't acknowledge it or didn't do anything about it.

..I do agree that bullying takes place in all kind of environments and primary schools as well but I also know that not every clash of personality is bullying as well..which are my feelings about the characters in the CBB house...I'm sorry for your own personal experiences and those of your friends and family, I'm sure you do a good job in trying to recognise bullying now in your job and acting on it, which is a great asset to the children at your school...

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by jet

No, I don't feel it is payback because I don't believe he is being bullied. Please don't put words into my mouth.
What I said was I don't freaking care about HM's sniping and bitching at him, because he hasn't exactly been blameless himself in the house.
He was a nasty man and I haven't seen any great change in him to make me think he is now a good man. Maybe he's mellowed with age, but I still don't like the person he was. If you want to spend hours on end championing such a man, that is your prerogative.
My stance is - who freaking cares is he isn't having a good time in the house. He wouldn't know what a good time was if it bit him on the ass. He's a spoiled, grumpy git spreading misery and getting back misery in return.

What you said included this:

Why would anyone give a rat's ass if they bitch about him? He's given out a 1000 times worse over they years and he knows it.
He beat up his wife and thumped her in the stomach with a barbell

I am not championing Jim Davidson. I am discussing the issue of bullying, group dynamics, mobbing, manipulation, etc. I would say the same things no matter who the target was. We too, btw, are manipulated by BB, who manipulate our opinions by presenting their pick of clips in order to cause the maximum controversy. It's an evil genius, but that's what makes it compulsive viewing.

[jet]

She says he "gets on my tits" because he's not into her games. Linda was the one who started the accusations of misogynism and sexism, and Luisa is very easily influenced by Linda. I haven't really seen him being particularly so, but men of his generation usually are, even though they don't see it in themselves, so it's hardly surprising and not a cardinal sin. There was a guy on this forum who told me that Jim should rise above Linda's behaviour because she was menopausal and females have hormonal issues. That, for me, is patronising and sexist, and if Jim was coming out with stuff like that then I'd be absolutely in agreement with Luisa and Linda. It still wouldn't excuse their behaviour or the bitching and bullying.

Talk about twisting words! I was the man on this forum who said that Linda was going through the menopause (which she herself said) - and I said that I sympathized with that as I knew that at the time of the menopause women's hormones can make their emotions go all over the place. What is patronizing and sexist about that? It is a well documented, physical, medical FACT. I did not say that Jim should rise above it, just that I gave her a bit of a pass.

Then you use the generalization that men of Jim's generation are usually misogynist and sexist? That opinion is ageist and sexist. I am not much younger than Jim, and I am neither.
Talk about double standards!

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by jet

Talk about twisting words! I was the man on this forum who said that Linda was going through the menopause (which she herself said) - and I said that I I sympathized with that as I knew that at the time of the menopause women's hormones can make their emotions be all over the place. What is patronizing and sexist about that? It is a well documented, physical, medical FACT. I did not say that Jim should rise above it, just that I gave her a bit of a pass.

Then you use the generalization that men of Jim's generation are usually misogynist and sexist? That opinion is ageist ans sexist. I am not much younger than Jim, and I am neither.
Talk about double standards!

Lol. Thanks for giving me the biggest laugh I've had today.

I told you at the time that I thought it was a patronising and insulting comment to make, lol. Just about every woman goes through the menopause and they can still hold down jobs, bring up families and jog along with all kinds of people in the workplace. The type of behaviour being exhibited by Linda is nothing to do with her "hormones".

[jet]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

What you said included this:



I am not championing Jim Davidson. I am discussing the issue of bullying, group dynamics, mobbing, manipulation, etc. I would say the same things no matter who the victim was. We too, btw, are manipulated by BB, who manipulate our opinions by presenting their pick of clips in order to cause the maximum controversy. It's an evil genius, but that's what makes it compulsive viewing.

There is no bullying going on. Why are you so intent on making Jim Davidson into a victim?

[Slevin]

its Jim...



MAN!

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I do agree that bullying takes place in all kind of environments and primary schools as well but I also know that not every clash of personality is bullying as well..which are my feelings about the characters in the CBB house...I'm sorry for your own personal experiences and those of your friends and family, I'm sure you do a good job in trying to recognise bullying now in your job and acting on it, which is a great asset to the children at your school...

Thanks very much. That's kind of you to say. I hope that you might read a bit more about the issue. Primary school teachers have such an important role in children's development.

Of course, you're right. Every personality clash doesn't lead to bullying.The problem arises when one of the parties bolsters their strength by surrounding themselves with other people who will agree with them and join them in ganging up on another person.

Anyway - have a nice day.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Lol. Thanks for giving me the biggest laugh I've had today.

I told you at the time that I thought it was a patronising and insulting comment to make, lol. Just about every woman goes through the menopause and they can still hold down jobs, bring up families and jog along with all kinds of people in the workplace. The type of behaviour being exhibited by Linda is nothing to do with her "hormones".

Well thanks for telling me that women can hold down jobs, bring up families etc while going through the menopause. I would never have known that.
When I made the post about sympathizing with Linda it was at the time she broke down when Jim cruelly brought out the incident about Frank Carson's dressing room. I noticed that earlier in the programme she was flushed and fanning herself to cool down, which is a symptom of hormonal fluctuations. I was simply sympathizing that the cruel reveal came at a time when she may have been feeling under the weather. So shoot me for being insulting (in your opinion) on one occasion.

Meanwhile you spend hours on end trying to convince everyone that poor Jim is a victim of bullying (which was suggested could be caused by his sexist remarks) but that's okay because his misogyny and sexism is just typical of a man of his generation so he should be given a pass. Hmmm...

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by jet

There is no bullying going on. Why are you so intent on making Jim Davidson into a victim?

I changed my post to the word "target", which is a more appropriate word to use. I'm not intent on making Jim Davidson into anything. That is the point I have been trying to make. Bullying isn't defined by the target. It is about the behaviour of the bullies and the power/influence which is held/exerted by the instigators.

Let's just leave the topic of bullying. It is an interesting topic but I am viewing it from a more academic/behavioural viewpoint. Plus, on a more personal note - I really hate bullies. Rest assured that if Jim Davidson was behaving like Linda is, I'd utterly detest him.

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by Jamie585

I hate the over use of the word 'bullying' he's a grown man who could stick up for himself but chooses not too..

I think he chooses not to because if Jim had a row with Luisa in the same way that she had with Lionel, it would not be pretty, and he knows that

She fights with her mouth like a man, cause she knows nothing could happen, she uses fighting talk, knowing the men will back down (ie. dappy, lionel etc)
Jim walks away cause he would never back down to that vitriolic bull that comes out of her annoyingly whiney mouth

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by jet

Well thanks for telling me that women can hold down jobs, bring up families etc while going through the menopause. I would never have known that.
When I made the post about sympathizing with Linda it was at the time she broke down when Jim cruelly brought out the incident about Frank Carson's dressing room. I noticed that earlier in the programme she was flushed and fanning herself to cool down, which is a symptom of hormonal fluctuations. I was simply sympathizing that the cruel reveal came at a time when she may have been feeling under the weather. So shoot me for being insulting (in your opinion) on one occasion.

Meanwhile you spend hours on end trying to convince everyone that poor Jim is a victim of bullying (which was suggested could be caused by his sexist remarks) but that's okay because his misogyny and sexism is just typical of a man of his generation so he should be given a pass. Hmmm...

I think she has been under the weather, but that doesnt excuse her gathering everyone around her to ensure they all hate Jim
The row they had years ago was because her husband was stealing from Jims best mate, who else wouldnt be annoyed
he should not have brought it up EVER (after a mans death) but he's not the most intelligent man on the block, she should have shut up and stopped picking on a guy who had a secret on her
I really cant stand a thief, so although it was him and not her, her excusing it by saying he only gave a guilty plea to save his family from stress was bull, he was CAUGHT ON CAMERA after money had been going missing all week!!

Again, none of that is her fault, but shut up about it!

[jet]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

I changed my post to the word "target", which is a more appropriate word to use. I'm not intent on making Jim Davidson into anything. That is the point I have been trying to make. Bullying isn't defined by the target. It is about the behaviour of the bullies and the power/influence which is held/exerted by the instigators.

Let's just leave the topic of bullying. It is an interesting topic but I am viewing it from a more academic/behavioural viewpoint. Plus, on a more personal note - I really hate bullies. Rest assured that if Jim Davidson was behaving like Linda is, I'd utterly detest him.

So you don't detest the man with the long history of racism, homophobia, sexism, wife beating, (which he admitted) which are all forms of bullying - yet you detest Linda for sniping at and disliking that man (who is not a helpless child and sniped back) on a reality TV show.

Do you seriously believe a man with his history of nastiness is incapable of giving it back 100 - fold if he so chose? He is holding back because he is playing the game of Mr. Innocent Victim - and you are falling for it.

Now THAT is funny.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Miranda123

I think she has been under the weather, but that doesnt excuse her gathering everyone around her to ensure they all hate Jim
The row they had years ago was because her husband was stealing from Jims best mate, who else wouldnt be annoyed
he should not have brought it up EVER (after a mans death) but he's not the most intelligent man on the block, she should have shut up and stopped picking on a guy who had a secret on her
I really cant stand a thief, so although it was him and not her, her excusing it by saying he only gave a guilty plea to save his family from stress was bull, he was CAUGHT ON CAMERA after money had been going missing all week!!

Again, none of that is her fault, but shut up about it!

Nobody can make anyone hate another person. How exactly do you do that? Nobody in that house is naive or stupid as far as I can see. They can work things out for themselves with their own brains and eyes and ears and if they like Jim then they are not going to stop liking him because Linda has a grudge against him. I don't know where the ridiculous idea came from that Linda influenced them all to nominate him.
They have been nominating him from the very first nom, which was in the diary room and in private. If Linda tried to influence nearly them all in that short time and they were afraid not to nom him in private then she is some kind of ultra superwoman.
The fact is, we have no idea whatsoever if Linda made even one person dislike him or if they just don't like him full stop. Common sense would indicate the latter.
Linda is as sour faced as Jim and I don't like her either, but come on.