[Crimson Dynamo]

Kirsty wark. Give up.

[JTM45]

Israel deserves everything it gets!
They've been slaughtering Palestinians and stealing their land and getting away with it for far too long.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Israel deserves everything it gets!
They've been slaughtering Palestinians and stealing their land and getting away with it for far too long.

pretty much

[the truth]

israel is the worst country in the world

[Livia]

You'd think Israel was firing into Gaza for no reason. While Israel's reaction is way over the top, Hamas aren't exactly all sweeteness and light. And I would remind everyone that this latest bout of violence was sparked when three innocent Israeli teenagers were murdered by Hamas.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

You'd think Israel was firing into Gaza for no reason. While Israel's reaction is way over the top, Hamas aren't exactly all sweeteness and light. And I would remind everyone that this latest bout of violence was sparked when three innocent Israeli teenagers were murdered by Hamas.

yes and that disgusting incident was sparked by the israelis and they were reacting to what hammas did and they were reacting to what israel did and so this mindless cold blooded carnage goes round and round in circles and 1000s of innocents get butchered. israel is a disgusting country, hammas are a disgusting group. but both sides are too merciless too stupid too cruel too pig headed to change their ways. israel should never have become the nation it is. but now it is here, the only way forward is for the israelis to recognise palestine as a country and for the UN and everyone else to do so. only then can we even have the remotest possibility of a 2 state solution. this is ultimately in the hands of the israelis

[Niall]

Well I imagine attacking a deprived land with such an incredibly careless and relentless bombing campaign will earn consistent bad press. Israel ****ing deserves it.

[Brother Leon]

Makes a nice change from the usual pro Israel we have had to put up with.

[the truth]

the appalling fox news are already calling the united nations anti semetic , what a sick joke
the UN?
anyone who criticizes zionism or israel is a racist right?
if you dont believe reverse racism exists well now you know it does and its every bit as bad as racism , maybe worse. the zionists are using reverse racism to justify butchering thousands and thousands of innocent people. heartless barstewards

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

You'd think Israel was firing into Gaza for no reason. While Israel's reaction is way over the top, Hamas aren't exactly all sweeteness and light. And I would remind everyone that this latest bout of violence was sparked when three innocent Israeli teenagers were murdered by Hamas.

By the Hebron branch of Hamas operating on its' own, as it has done for decades as it's largely controlled by organised criminals.

Israel used their deaths as an excuse to "retaliate"; i.e.carry out attacks that they already wanted to carry out and had already basically pre-planned, waiting only for the slightest reason to pull the trigger.

Both sides in this conflict are in the grips of "war psychology"... committing atrocities with very little scope for empathy; both believing they are on the "right side". Of course Hamas are not all sweetness and light, but that's the very reason that they are in unchallenged control. The civilians feel powerless and are being offered ways to "fight back". Unfortunately, those ways are ineffective against a military funded to the tune of several billion by the United States. Like throwing pebbles at an Apache attack helicopter.

BUT, if you take all of that out of the equation; the questionable Hamas leaders, the entirely disproportionate Israeli response, the decades-long sea blockades designed to keep the Palestinian economy barely functional... if you go right back... it boils down to this, for me:

There is no justification for the formation of the state of Israel in international law. Absolutely none. It should never have happened, it was always destined to be an absolute disaster, it was largely pushed through out of guilt, and partly because Western powers found the idea of having a pet-state plonked down in that area of the word very attractive. But I don't think they foresaw quite this level of bloodthirstiness. They lost control of their puppy. Now it's just a ****ing mess.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

You'd think Israel was firing into Gaza for no reason. While Israel's reaction is way over the top, Hamas aren't exactly all sweeteness and light. And I would remind everyone that this latest bout of violence was sparked when three innocent Israeli teenagers were murdered by Hamas.

Israel's been committing atrocities for years and they've taken over one thousand lives in those teenager's names, 70% of which are civilian deaths.

[the truth]

the bbc 10 oclock news tonight ONLY reported the 2 israel deaths and not the 100+ palestinians who died today?

[MTVN]

Not often the BBC is accused of being anti-Israel

Couple of weeks ago: http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...za-palestinian

The BBC has defended its coverage of the latest Israeli air strikes in Gaza after it was criticised in a 45,000-strong online petition organised by a pro-Palestinian group and faced a protest outside its London headquarters.

The online open letter to BBC director general Tony Hall, organised by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, claimed the corporation’s news programmes were “entirely devoid of context or background” in their coverage of the latest Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The petition, signed by Noam Chomsky, John Pilger, Ken Loach, Brian Eno and Jeremy Hardy, accused the corporation of pro-Israeli bias and said it would “like to remind the BBC that Gaza is under Israeli occupation and siege [and] that Israel is bombing a refugee population”.

The protest rally – with estimates of numbers taking part ranging from several hundred to several thousand – took place outside the BBC’s New Broadcasting House in central London on Tuesday afternoon, with people chanting “BBC – shame on you!”. The rally following another demonstration outside BBC North in Salford on Saturday.

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by the truth

the bbc 10 oclock news tonight ONLY reported the 2 israel deaths and not the 100+ palestinians who died today?

This happens often on the news. Not sure why OP is so annoyed when it tends to always be the opposite anyway.

[lostalex]

unfortunately, some people will always try to justify terrorism. on both sides. Hell, even I as an American can look back at history, and look at our war of independence, and i will justify any of the tactics my forefathers used to liberate our land from the British imperialists. Just like many will also justify attemptes at irish independence. and if some Scots are unhappy about the result after the referendum, i couldn't blame some Scots for taking up arms if they are not allow3d independence.

It's very complicated. Who are terrorists and who are freedom fighters? I think if you purposefully target civilians you are a terrorists though. and i don't think Israel is targeting civilians. Hamas definitely targets civilians.

Hamas has sent suicide bombers into shopping centers just because they could kill more civilian people, people they knew had nothing to do with the government or military of Israel. Israel has never targeted an area just because it creates more civilian victims. Israel always targets an area to target military and political leaders specifically. so i think there is a difference.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by lostalex

unfortunately, some people will always try to justify terrorism. on both sides. Hell, even I as an American can look back at history, and look at our war of independence, and i will justify any of the tactics my forefathers used to liberate our land from the British imperialists. Just like many will also justify attemptes at irish independence. and if some Scots are unhappy about the result after the referendum, i couldn't blame some Scots for taking up arms if they are not allow3d independence.

It's very complicated. Who are terrorists and who are freedom fighters? I think if you purposefully target civilians you are a terrorists though. and i don't think Israel is targeting civilians. Hamas definitely targets civilians.

Hamas has sent suicide bombers into shopping centers just because they could kill more civilian people, people they knew had nothing to do with the government or military of Israel. Israel has never targeted an area just because it creates more civilian victims. Israel always targets an area to target military and political leaders specifically. so i think there is a difference.

Officially, maybe, although they use sweeping tactics quite freely knowing that civilian casualties are a certainty, rather than a risk. Israeli troops are also becoming increasingly trigger-happy when identifying their targets, using massive force against positions where the threat is dubious, if it exists at all.

And of course... that's just officially. There are, on the side of Israel, groups and organisations that can ONLY be described as terrorist organisations. I'm sure they fully believe that they're simply fighting for their "rightful land", but they are unofficial, armed illegally, use terror-tactics and DEFINITELY target civilians deliberately. Whilst they're (probably?) not condoned or funded by the Israeili government, they're also not particularly concerned with stopping them.

[the truth]

israel are deliberately bombing schools and hospitals every day ? thats just pure evil and the UN and all nations must step in.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

israel are deliberately bombing schools and hospitals every day ? thats just pure evil and the UN and all nations must step in.

they aren't bombing schools or hospitals because they are schools and hospitals though, they are bombing them because that's where Hamas is hiding it's weapons and soldiers. The UN itself has said this, that Hamas has intentionally infiltrated their sites. The UN itself has condemned Hamas for invading their sites, and so it's not fair to say that Israel is targeting UN buildings. Israel doesn't target UN buildings, they target Hamas weapons caches. unfortunately Hamas uses UN buildings to store weapons.

If the UN can't secure their own sites from being used by Hamas, then the UN has no business being there. Hamas should have the balls to create it's own military sites away from civilian populations. but they are too cowardly to act like a REAL military. they want to act like they are a legitimate military, with a legitimate cause, but they won't play by the rules of war. They intentionally hide behind civilians, and intentionally don't wear uniforms, and intentionally break all of the rules of geneva conventions.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

they aren't bombing schools or hospitals because they are schools and hospitals though, they are bombing them because that's where Hamas is hiding it's weapons and soldiers. The UN itself has said this, that Hamas has intentionally infiltrated their sites. The UN itself has condemned Hamas for invading their sites, and so it's not fair to say that Israel is targeting UN buildings. Israel doesn't target UN buildings, they target Hamas weapons caches. unfortunately Hamas uses UN buildings to store weapons.

If the UN can't secure their own sites from being used by Hamas, then the UN has no business being there.

please explain what your sentence means ...."they aren't bombing schools or hospitals because they are schools and hospitals though"

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

please explain what your sentence means ...."they aren't bombing schools or hospitals because they are schools and hospitals though"

what is there to explain? Israel is not bombing schools or hospitals because they are schools and hospitals, they are bombing them because Hamas has turned those schools and hospitals into military targets by storing weapons in them or by using them to shelter Hamas militants. Hamas has turned those schools and hospitals into military installations.

Do you honestly think that Israel targeted any school or hospital just because it wanted to murder kids or sick people?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what is there to explain? Israel is not bombing schools or hospitals because they are schools and hospitals, they are bombing them because Hamas has turned those schools and hospitals into military targets by storing weapons in them or by using them to shelter Hamas militants. Hamas has turned those schools and hospitals into military installations.

Do you honestly think that Israel targeted any school or hospital just because it wanted to murder kids or sick people?

you worded it very poorly

but theyre bombing them. knowing full well theyre killing 100s of innocent people. to bomb hospitals just to try and target some handful of people hiding with pea shooters is plain mental , evil too....the israelis seem to be looking for an excuse to hurt and destroy people.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

you worded it very poorly

but theyre bombing them. knowing full well theyre killing 100s of innocent people. to bomb hospitals just to try and target some handful of people hiding with pea shooters is plain mental , evil too....the israelis seem to be looking for an excuse to hurt and destroy people.

and Hamas knew full well they were creating a target of thousands of innocent people by storing their rockets in UN buildings. right?
Hamas knows that by storing their military equipment there, they would be making a target of a humanitarian outpost, an outpost that is there just to help Palestinians.

Please tell me why Hamas wants to put the people they are supposedly fighting to defend in MORE danger??? please explain to me why Hamas would do that??? Why does Hamas seem to care so little about actual Palestinian peoples lives, yet they claim to be fighting for the Palestinian people. It makes no sense to me.