[toronto_matt]

someone really has to help me with this, i started off LOVING chris and christopher from the start and throughout most of the series

ashleigh, i was always so so on, especially during her month long hiding in corners with danielle moaning and snickering stage but i never actually "disliked" her

and helen, my god, i despised her, i could not stand her! i honestly thought there was no way i could dislike a housemate ever again as much as i did her BUT

something happened, dont ask me what, there just came a point where i realized chris, christopher and ashligh started to really get to me and i found myself while not "liking" helen per say, but i started to understand her more and slowly but surely, the tables completely flipped and i found myself pro helen!

its madness i know..

i know there are alot of hardcore helen fans out there that have loved her from the start, but is there anyone else that started off absolutely despising the woman to now wanting her to win? i mean, i cant be the only one.. can i?

[kistar]

Originally Posted by toronto_matt

someone really has to help me with this, i started off LOVING chris and christopher from the start and throughout most of the series

ashleigh, i was always so so on, especially during her month long hiding in corners with danielle moaning and snickering stage but i never actually "disliked" her

and helen, my god, i despised her, i could not stand her! i honestly thought there was no way i could dislike a housemate ever again as much as i did her BUT

something happened, dont ask me what, there just came a point where i realized chris, christopher and ashligh started to really get to me and i found myself while not "liking" helen per say, but understanding her more and her point of view. and slowly but surely, the tables completely flipped and i found myself pro helen!

its madness i know..

i know there are alot of hardcore helen fans out there that have loved her from the start, but is there anyone else that started off absolutely despising the woman to now wanting her to win? i mean, i cant be the only one.. can i?

I think a lot if people are warming to Helen , maybe we shouldn't have judged her so quickly , I'm glad we have had time to see more of her and to understand her .

I still find it difficult to like her but let's just say I dislike her less now.

[Brother Leon]

Christopher is really likable tbf. I still don't get how Chris or Ashleigh are considered "Nice" though

[kistar]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Christopher is really likable tbf. I still don't get how Chris or Ashleigh are considered "Nice" though

It's all about perception I guess

[Redvines]

I have had the same feelings as the OP. I started going off Chris when Danielle left and he became Ashleigh's new Danielle. I liked Christopher until Mark choose to befriend Christopher after Matthew left. Both Chris and Christopher choose to play second fiddle to Ashleigh and Mark respectively.

[bots]

I think there are quite a few with similar views as the OP including myself. Not sure if I would go as far as wanting Helen to win, but I would like the Helen trio in the top 3 now. Its a funny old world

[toronto_matt]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Christopher is really likable tbf. I still don't get how Chris or Ashleigh are considered "Nice" though

ya to be fair i still do like christopher, i know i lumped him in their with chris and ashleigh but hes actually not that bad

but ashleigh and chris, the definition of nice does not come to mind

i couldnt believe it in last nights highlight show when i actually heard her insult helens looks, called her ugly rofl, i mean really? your insulting someone based on how they look??

thats like the go to insult when you've run outta material "your ugly!" bravo LOL

nasty girl!

[booboomartin]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Christopher is really likable tbf. I still don't get how Chris or Ashleigh are considered "Nice" though

i agree with you. i think christopher can be a bit annoying, but on the whole he is a decent bloke. ashleigh however is a spoilt, petulant brat who needs to look at herself a bit more closely. she goes on about helen, but at least helen will say things to your face, unlike miss prissy, who can only run to the diary room to complain and swear her head off. creepy chris is a lousy actor (perhaps thats why he cannot get a job) he pretends to like ashleigh in a 'friend' way. sorry, don't think so, and neither did her boyfriend when he was spoken to, in a telephone call in BBOTS. creepy and dishonest.

[Daffodil]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Christopher is really likable tbf. I still don't get how Chris or Ashleigh are considered "Nice" though

Agree wholeheartedly.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by toronto_matt

someone really has to help me with this, i started off LOVING chris and christopher from the start and throughout most of the series

ashleigh, i was always so so on, especially during her month long hiding in corners with danielle moaning and snickering stage but i never actually "disliked" her

and helen, my god, i despised her, i could not stand her! i honestly thought there was no way i could dislike a housemate ever again as much as i did her BUT

something happened, dont ask me what, there just came a point where i realized chris, christopher and ashligh started to really get to me and i found myself while not "liking" helen per say, but i started to understand her more and slowly but surely, the tables completely flipped and i found myself pro helen!

its madness i know..

i know there are alot of hardcore helen fans out there that have loved her from the start, but is there anyone else that started off absolutely despising the woman to now wanting her to win? i mean, i cant be the only one.. can i?

Excellent post matt. ...apart from the Christopher bit [I stil want him to win!] I agree whole heartedly!

[CaudleHalbard]

Ashleigh = trainee bitch
Chris = got issues
Christopher = ok

[toronto_matt]

i just think we deserve a winner that completely puts themselves out there, for good or for bad and does not hide aspects of their personality for the cameras.

i may not like helen 100% of the time, but i can honestly say after 2 months of watching this show i can say I KNOW WHO SHE IS. weather i like what i see or not

chris? i literally have no idea who he is.. asheligh, same thing, very closed off, very reserved, ya shes young, shes only 18, but being young and "surviving" the big brother experience doesnt make you a winner

then again... helen having the pass to the final probably made her more open and honest, so i can see the flip side. all im saying is, i want a winner thats actually done something for 2 months, not someone thats "nice" or someone that you feel sorry for

thats not what i watch this program. i want entertainment, i want to be entertained! and helen, well shes entertained!

but realistically i know she cant and wont win, thats fine, but as bitontheslide said, a top3, will be well deserved and will make me happy

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by toronto_matt

i just think we deserve a winner that completely puts themselves out there, for good or for bad and does not hide aspects of their personality for the cameras.

i may not like helen 100% of the time, but i can honestly say after 2 months of watching this show i can say I KNOW WHO SHE IS. weather i like what i see or not

chris? i literally have no idea who he is.. asheligh, same thing, very closed off, very reserved, ya shes young, shes only 18, but being young and "surviving" the big brother experience doesnt make you a winner

Really well said,I agree with all you are saying in the main,I had Ashleigh in my top 3 at the start and Helen down in 15th place,.
Over the weeks the more I have learned as to both,I have now got Helen right up there on my list and it is Ashleigh way down.

It's been a really odd and uninspiring series but I don't usually have such a big turnaround as to housemates as I have had with Helen and Ashleigh.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by toronto_matt

i just think we deserve a winner that completely puts themselves out there, for good or for bad and does not hide aspects of their personality for the cameras.

i may not like helen 100% of the time, but i can honestly say after 2 months of watching this show i can say I KNOW WHO SHE IS. weather i like what i see or not

chris? i literally have no idea who he is.. asheligh, same thing, very closed off, very reserved, ya shes young, shes only 18, but being young and "surviving" the big brother experience doesnt make you a winner

Great post - very good point. Seeing a full person in all their good and bad is what makes the best HMs.

And for me too, that has to be Helen. Yet it used to be the other way round.

I started off finding Helen's arguing and voice grated on me and Ashleigh never annoyed me at all. Now it's pretty much the opposite.

For all Helen's 'bad side' of being moody and potty mouthed - i see more and more that Ashleigh is just as bad. The main difference between Helen and Ashleigh is that Helen vocalises it louder, but then it blows over and she always reflects on herself and her behaviour.

Ashleigh gets moody (not as outwardly angry as Helen) but it never seems to blow over with her, she keeps brooding on it. Big difference being - unlike Helen - you never hear Ashleigh reflecting on herself after her outbursts !

Also - Helen is not afraid to laugh at herself. Ashleigh never does that !

Funny how it can change, but that's part of what makes BB such a fascinating show.

.

[bots]

Its an odd one, usually viewers have something immediate that they can see and latch on to that they like or that they can identify with in a hm. This series has very much been more of an acquired taste, whether its seeing qualities that were not immediately obvious or situations/adversities that bring out aspects of someones character that they then appreciate

[user104658]

I think the unfortunate truth is that they're all pretty awful people... As I think, unfortunately, only certain types of person go for a place in BB now.

The most ironic thing about the Helen / Ashleigh split is that they have EXACTLY the same personality type. Give Ashleigh a baby and have her turn to prostitution, fast forward 10 years, dye her hair and... That's Helen. Helen is an older, jaded, and yet more down to earth Ashleigh.

Neither of them are good people.

The only half "decent" person in there is actually Ash. He's literally the ONLY one I've seen much genuine emotion from over the entire series: be that having fun and laughing about things that everyone else is getting worked up about, or the way that he was visibly gutted when he realised Winston was really gone - with no ulterior motive. Just genuinely sad about it. He also is the only one who seems to be genuinely happy when they're all getting along, and disappointed when it falls apart... And was the only one of ash/helen/Winston who was even vaguely remorseful about the breakout thing.

Basically he seems like a normal, friendly guy who went there to have a laugh but got sucked into a very negative series. Even as recently as last week he seemed genuinely keen for everyone to get along, when the rest were just paying lip service, and were simply looking for an excuse to end the ceasefire... Because they're happier sniping at each other. All of them.

And yet, I don't think he'd be a "worthy" winner... Because he's simply not been strong enough a character.

[Achilles]

I disagree with the entire contents of this thread

[toronto_matt]

Originally Posted by Achilles

I disagree with the entire contents of this thread

care to elaborate? i mean its fine if you do, im just interested to know exactly what you disagreed with in particular..

you dont agree that some people can have good "and" bad traits? you dont think you can support someone even tho you may not agree with them 100% of the time?

the thing i dont get is most ashleigh fans seem to think ashleigh has no faults at all, while helen fans (as well as helen herself) at least reflect and recognize her faults and mistakes.

all i ever read is, helen bad, helen bully, helen must go! its like ya, we get it, you dont like helen, but what about YOUR housemate? tell me about them! why should THEY win? not win by default because you dont like helen..

tell me why ashleigh should win without mentioning the word "helen"

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by toronto_matt

care to elaborate?

Ashleigh, Chris and Christopher are old school BB. I would rather have spent the last 2 months watching just those 3 in the house and none of the rest.

[toronto_matt]

Originally Posted by Achilles

Ashleigh, Chris and Christopher are old school BB. I would rather have spent the last 2 months watching just those 3 in the house and none of the rest.

old school BB is bitching about other people for the first 4 weeks of the show in a corner in the house with danielle?

old school BB is calling someone ugly? and insulting them based on physical appearance?

and 0 self reflection?

that doesnt sound like old school BB but our definitions may differ

as for chris i thought old school BB was regular people living in a house, not working ACTORS

[mrflibble]

Originally Posted by Achilles

I disagree with the entire contents of this thread

So do I I don't know what's so bad about being 'closed off', but maybe that's because that's how I am. I am extremely introverted, I love being alone and I only like having a small, close group of friends. So I find the Chris/Christopher/Ashleigh group very real, honest and relatable for me.

Whereas I feel Helen's manipulative with her 'good' side, lacks self-awareness and a filter, and is just plain nasty. I don't feel that it's good that she voices every single thought that pops into her head and is completely predictable because that means she has no ability or will to change her bad traits, doesn't care if she hurts other people and never reflects on anything she does. Just because we 100% know she is a nasty, aggressive and loud person doesn't mean we should like her for it.

It's a very difficult thing to show restraint and remain polite and cordial with people you don't like and keep a level-head when things aren't going your way and when people show these qualities I consider them a strong person and someone who I would say I liked. Helen shows none of these and Chris/Christopher/Ashleigh have (to different extents). The Ashleigh crew also demonstrate a lot of intelligence and thought, unlike the Helen crew.

[susie q]

Originally Posted by mrflibble

So do I I don't know what's so bad about being 'closed off', but maybe that's because that's how I am. I am extremely introverted, I love being alone and I only like having a small, close group of friends. So I find the Chris/Christopher/Ashleigh group very real, honest and relatable for me.

Whereas I feel Helen's manipulative with her 'good' side, lacks self-awareness and a filter, and is just plain nasty. I don't feel that it's good that she voices every single thought that pops into her head and is completely predictable because that means she has no ability or will to change her bad traits, doesn't care if she hurts other people and never reflects on anything she does. Just because we 100% know she is a nasty, aggressive and loud person doesn't mean we should like her for it.

It's a very difficult thing to show restraint and remain polite and cordial with people you don't like and keep a level-head when things aren't going your way and when people show these qualities I consider them a strong person and someone who I would say I liked. Helen shows none of these and Chris/Christopher/Ashleigh have (to different extents). The Ashleigh crew also demonstrate a lot of intelligence and thought, unlike the Helen crew.

Great post

[booboomartin]

Originally Posted by mrflibble

So do I I don't know what's so bad about being 'closed off', but maybe that's because that's how I am. I am extremely introverted, I love being alone and I only like having a small, close group of friends. So I find the Chris/Christopher/Ashleigh group very real, honest and relatable for me.

Whereas I feel Helen's manipulative with her 'good' side, lacks self-awareness and a filter, and is just plain nasty. I don't feel that it's good that she voices every single thought that pops into her head and is completely predictable because that means she has no ability or will to change her bad traits, doesn't care if she hurts other people and never reflects on anything she does. Just because we 100% know she is a nasty, aggressive and loud person doesn't mean we should like her for it.

It's a very difficult thing to show restraint and remain polite and cordial with people you don't like and keep a level-head when things aren't going your way and when people show these qualities I consider them a strong person and someone who I would say I liked. Helen shows none of these and Chris/Christopher/Ashleigh have (to different extents). The Ashleigh crew also demonstrate a lot of intelligence and thought, unlike the Helen crew.

asleigh is also a nasty, aggresive and loud person. the difference between her and helen is, that helen will say what she thinks to your face. ashleigh however will only say what she wants to certain people eg: having a go at christopher, but with others (helen) she has to rush to the diary room and swear her head off there. helen always reflects on what she has said, and will admit it if she thinks she is wrong. ashleigh on the other hand never thinks she is wrong. i cannot see where you say that ashleigh is able to show restraint, and remain polite when things are not going her way. are we both watching the same show?, miss prissy has thrown her toys out of her pram so many times i have lost count. as for showing intelligence, i think that ashleigh is very clever at manipulating the situation. she only has christopher on her side because mark has gone. chris is with her because he 'likes' her,but would like more, and thinks that there is going to be a big friendship between him, ashleigh and her boyfriend. i don't think her boyfriend is into threesomes, so she will drop him like a stone when this series is over. christopher is week, but on the whole a decent bloke. of those three i would only have christopher in the final

[mrflibble]

Originally Posted by booboomartin

asleigh is also a nasty, aggresive and loud person. the difference between her and helen is, that helen will say what she thinks to your face. ashleigh however will only say what she wants to certain people eg: having a go at christopher, but with others (helen) she has to rush to the diary room and swear her head off there. helen always reflects on what she has said, and will admit it if she thinks she is wrong. ashleigh on the other hand never thinks she is wrong. i cannot see where you say that ashleigh is able to show restraint, and remain polite when things are not going her way. are we both watching the same show?, miss prissy has thrown her toys out of her pram so many times i have lost count. as for showing intelligence, i think that ashleigh is very clever at manipulating the situation. she only has christopher on her side because mark has gone. chris is with her because he 'likes' her,but would like more, and thinks that there is going to be a big friendship between him, ashleigh and her boyfriend. i don't think her boyfriend is into threesomes, so she will drop him like a stone when this series is over. christopher is week, but on the whole a decent bloke. of those three i would only have christopher in the final

I disagree with most of that, though I did say they had all shown restraint and politeness to different extents, Ashleigh has got fed up a number of times. Helen saying 'oh that was wrong' is not Helen reflecting - to reflect means to realise what you've done that is wrong and to take steps to change it. She knows what she's doing is wrong and she says that for everyone else's sake - but she doesn't care. And as I said in my post, it's not necessary to tell everyone everything you think about them as you think it. Ashleigh stops herself most of the time and goes to vent in private, which is a much nicer way of dealing with issues. Someone like Helen will not accept criticism and will not listen to someone else telling her she is wrong (which is also why she'll say 'that was wrong of me', so people think she's learned from her mistakes, but continuously makes the same mistakes).

Helen is also the instigator for 90% of the problems in that house, and when someone is as aggressive and nasty as she is, it's very difficult to do anything in that confined space. Ashleigh has not been aggressive towards Helen, she's been defensive and stood her ground. She has said nasty things but who hasn't against someone who's treated you like Helen has treated her? And loud, well she has to be to get a word in. I've compared Helen before to an injured animal that just growls and bites at everyone who comes near it and that's all she will be until she realises how her actions affect others. Whereas Ashleigh's the animal that's had enough of being mistreated and fights back.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Achilles

I disagree with the entire contents of this thread

Me to, loved Christopher in his role as prosecutor, didnt he speak well. I have loved Chris since the beginning and was so grateful when Ashleigh went to him after Danielle left and told him that she wanted his friendship. He had been left out along with a few others. Their friendship is one of loyalty and trust along with Christopher.

On the other hand I was amazed at the amount of HMs read out by Christopher, whom Helen had had "fights" with. One forgets a lot.

CHRIS: ASHLEIGH and CHRISTOPHER for my final three.