[lostalex]

I think you should be allowed to say anything you like as long as you truly believe it to be true.

But you shouldn't be allowed to say things that you know are false just to hurt other people. Like accusing someone of pedophillia knowing full well they never molested you, but you say it just to destroy their life. Or knowing full well there is no fire in a theater, but you scream fire! in a crowded theater just to watch the chaos.

It's fine to scream fire in a crowded theater if you really do think there is a fire though.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I think you should be allowed to say anything you like as long as you truly believe it to be true.

But you shouldn't be allowed to say things that you know are false just to hurt other people. Like accusing someone of pedophillia knowing full well they never molested you, but you say it just to destroy their life. Or knowing full well there is no fire in a theater, but you scream fire! in a crowded theater just to watch the chaos.

It's fine to scream fire in a crowded theater if you really do think there is a fire though.

good logic. but what if theres a fire and you dont scream it?

[Ammi]

..I'm not sure that Voltaire had much experience of the internet, media, social media etc though....there should be no freedom of consequence of bullying, abuse, racism, prejudice etc...

[Dollface]

There is no such thing as freedom of speech, unfortunately

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Dollface

There is no such thing as freedom of speech, unfortunately

This.Just some things are more acceptable for some people to say than others.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

good logic. but what if theres a fire and you dont scream it?

i don't see what that has to do with free speech. not screaming fire has nothing to do with speech. that would be more about the freedom to remain silent(which americans also have)

anyone who has ever watched an american cop show knows the first thing the cops have to tell you is "you have the right to remain silent"

[letmein]

The UK doesn't have freedom of speech as hate speech is a crime. The US is the only country that has the most liberal laws regarding speech...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedo..._United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ech_exceptions

The country's first amendment has to do with free speech. The country's laws were based on opposition to Europe's.

Lack of free speech is hurting Europe. We're seeing a rise in fascism thanks to it. Curbing what is considered hate speech only leads to animosity, which explodes into nationalism and terrorism. Europe has a history and it isn't recognizing where its headed. There are little Hitler's waiting in the wings ready to resolve "society's ills."

France was already seeing the rise of fascism. This event is going to have severe repercussions. Hang onto your seats.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Anaesthesia

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Voltaire.

Let's discuss?

Freedom of speech is selective Anaesthasia,you only have to look on here,you have a different opinion than some and your fcuked,people are too scared to say what they really think.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Freedom of speech is selective Anaesthasia,you only have to look on here,you have a different opinion than some and your fcuked,people are too scared to say what they really think.

I never disagree with you Kazz my darling (but please Lord; if Kazz is really going to be '****ed' for having a difference of opinion, then let me be the one she has it with. )

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I never disagree with you Kazz my darling (but please Lord; if Kazz is really going to be '****ed' for having a difference of opinion, then let me be the one she has it with. )

Kirk,lol,

[bitontheslide]

We only need to refer to super injunctions to show that, where needed, the super rich can silence anyone they want. The UK doesn't have free speech and indeed its more dangerous than those without it as if it is hidden and subversive , it is much more of a threat to our freedoms.

[Liam-]

I believe in freedom of speech, until people take it upon themselves to use it as an excuse to be purposely horrible and bigoted towards other people.

Believing in what you believe is all well and good, until it crosses the line from just saying what you believe, into the realm of saying what you think in order to specifically hurt people and get their backs up, that is where i believe the line of free speech should be drawn.

[Nedusa]

Freedom of Speech is necessary in a free thinking democracy, but the speech should not be a threat to inflict harm on someone or an incitement to harm or kill someone.

Poking fun and satirising all aspects of our lives is OK if a little unkind but satire is necessary to make social comment on a host of issues.

Deliberately publishing or speaking in a deflammatory way is not allowed and it is covered in our libel and slander laws.

Religion is always fair game for satire as it is based on fantasy not fact ie
God is a theoretical human construct part of a belief system and NOT a real human being who could take offence.

[Kizzy]

Not like a real unpredictable dictator type that might take offence to say a film about them or something?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not like a real unpredictable dictator type that might take offence to say a film about them or something?

I agree the film that was made that acts out a plot to kill the current leader of a sovereign state ( no matter how mad he may be) was in very poor taste and cannot be defended under freedom of speech or expression.

As it was unnecessary to make and it's only point was to caricature a current world leader and show his assassination, it certainly cannot be realistically defended by anybody as being in the public interest.




.

[arista]

Originally Posted by letmein

The UK doesn't have freedom of speech as hate speech is a crime. The US is the only country that has the most liberal laws regarding speech...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedo..._United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ech_exceptions

The country's first amendment has to do with free speech. The country's laws were based on opposition to Europe's.

Lack of free speech is hurting Europe. We're seeing a rise in fascism thanks to it. Curbing what is considered hate speech only leads to animosity, which explodes into nationalism and terrorism. Europe has a history and it isn't recognizing where its headed. There are little Hitler's waiting in the wings ready to resolve "society's ills."

France was already seeing the rise of fascism. This event is going to have severe repercussions. Hang onto your seats.

Yes Great Points
letmein

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

people are too scared to say what they really think.

This is true. I used to be very out spoken on the internet until one incident where i posted a video of islamic extremists which resulted in me being threatened by a muslim woman twice my age. i was suffering from severe anxiety at the time so it was very distressing and in the end i felt i had to leave the forum. (weirdly enough, she left the forum just after me, it was like she made her account just to threaten a 16 year old!) now i try to steer clear of conversations about religion etc.

[Anaesthesia]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Freedom of speech is selective Anaesthasia,you only have to look on here,you have a different opinion than some and your fcuked,people are too scared to say what they really think.

I know, and it's partly observing this, partly current events and partly pure curiosity that led me to start this thread.

It just fascinates me how others are SO affected by other's thoughts that they take violent and abusive action. From a small, safe scale (on here) to an extent that people are killed (eg Charlie Hebdo)

It's DANGEROUS to speak your mind. Yet the more people become cowed by fear of repercussion, the more of a perfect environment for bullying and terrorising is created.

Nedusa, I loved your post, as it is close to my own feelings :

"Freedom of Speech is necessary in a free thinking democracy, but the speech should not be a threat to inflict harm on someone or an incitement to harm or kill someone.

Poking fun and satirising all aspects of our lives is OK if a little unkind but satire is necessary to make social comment on a host of issues.

Deliberately publishing or speaking in a deflammatory way is not allowed and it is covered in our libel and slander laws.

Religion is always fair game for satire as it is based on fantasy not fact ie
God is a theoretical human construct part of a belief system and NOT a real human being who could take offence."

With the last paragraph, there is the huge qualifier that even if SkyDaddy is NOT a real human being, there are enough real human beings out there to cause real serious harm on his behalf.

[kirklancaster]

I was going to post a really eloquent, well written essay on here about how we should all stand up for our right to speak when we want to and to say what we want, but

Spoiler:

I daren't because my wife says she'll bash me if I do.

[Anaesthesia]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I'm not sure that Voltaire had much experience of the internet, media, social media etc though....there should be no freedom of consequence of bullying, abuse, racism, prejudice etc...

Agreed. And there ARE consequences, which is as it should be.

Even in Voltaire's day where seditious beliefs were mostly committed to pamphlet or cartoon, you ran the risk of execution for lampooning the Royals...funny to see how priorities shift, the Royals are absolute fair game nowadays

And interesting to see that cartoonists still run the risk of fatal repercussion.

[Anaesthesia]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I was going to post a really eloquent, well written essay on here about how we should all stand up for our right to speak when we want to and to say what we want, but

Spoiler:

I daren't because my wife says she'll bash me if I do.

Haha, that reminds me of the fable of the one wise man:

A henpecked Sultan was sick of the henpecking, and summoned the men of his realm.

"Men!" he said. "I want all of you who are not under the control of your wives to go and stand by the fountain. Those who bow to their wives' command go to the statue."

One solitary man, looking rather sheepish, moved to the fountain. The sultan was delighted!

"Good fellow, please tell me your secret and I will give you riches beyond your imagining!" beamed the sultan"

"My lord," said the wise man. "It is this. My wife said she would kill me if I didn't."

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dollface

This is true. I used to be very out spoken on the internet until one incident where i posted a video of islamic extremists which resulted in me being threatened by a muslim woman twice my age. i was suffering from severe anxiety at the time so it was very distressing and in the end i felt i had to leave the forum. (weirdly enough, she left the forum just after me, it was like she made her account just to threaten a 16 year old!) now i try to steer clear of conversations about religion etc.

Hey Dollface, I'm really pissed off to hear that. I do understand, but you should post if you really feel strongly about something even if you post about everything but terrorism then. Just proves what I'm being lambasted for by some on here; that some 'ordinary' Muslims do support terrorist bastards.

I hope the twat that threatened you gets struck down with a lightening bolt and rots in hell.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by the truth

there is only freedom of speech if youre taunting white christian men.
any other sector of society is over protected. fact.

Oh my god you really have to pretend white christian men are oppressed, don't you...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Anaesthesia

Haha, that reminds me of the fable of the one wise man:

A henpecked Sultan was sick of the henpecking, and summoned the men of his realm.

"Men!" he said. "I want all of you who are not under the control of your wives to go and stand by the fountain. Those who bow to their wives' command go to the statue."

One solitary man, looking rather sheepish, moved to the fountain. The sultan was delighted!

"Good fellow, please tell me your secret and I will give you riches beyond your imagining!" beamed the sultan"

"My lord," said the wise man. "It is this. My wife said she would kill me if I didn't."

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Freedom of Speech is necessary in a free thinking democracy, but the speech should not be a threat to inflict harm on someone or an incitement to harm or kill someone.

Poking fun and satirising all aspects of our lives is OK if a little unkind but satire is necessary to make social comment on a host of issues.

Deliberately publishing or speaking in a deflammatory way is not allowed and it is covered in our libel and slander laws.

Religion is always fair game for satire as it is based on fantasy not fact ie
God is a theoretical human construct part of a belief system and NOT a real human being who could take offence.

Anyone who doesn't believe in free speech does not belong in the Western world.

These idiots who come to Britain and other parts of Europe and think they can force their religious views on the people native to the countries they are guests in through threats and violence are not welcome here and never will be.

They are fools of the highest order who will never get the world dominance they seek because they lack the intelligence required.