[kirklancaster]

The proof that Fracking' causes earthquakes and has - God knows what - other dangerous and probably irreversible ecological consequences, is becoming more incontrovertible by the day.

None of us - no matter of which political persuasion - can stand by and let greedy bastard people in positions of authority and privilege, continue to cause future ecological disasters for the sake of profit now.

These selfish greedy bastards do not CARE what future damage they will cause by this process just as long as it makes them colossal amounts of money so that they can continue to live 'The Good Life' now. As usual, with ALL aspects of life, it will be us common people who pay for their greed.

You cannot FECK with nature.

Everyone who studied science and chemistry at school will know that Sodium explodes once in contact with water, and that it is stored safely in mineral oil.

Imagine a tall beaker. The bottom third is full of sodium, the middle third is mineral oil, and the top third is water. ALL SAFE while ever it is undisturbed.

Then let some idiot come along and suck up all the oil through the water layer leaving the sodium now in full contact with the water -- BOOM.

Now, I'm not saying this is LITERALLY (or chemically) what happens with Fracking - just that the cretinous principle is the same.

THEY MUST BE STOPPED.


http://news.sky.com/story/1467751/is...uakes-in-texas

[Nedusa]

Put simply Fracking or hydraulic fracturing of lower strata gas bearing permeable rock is a desparate latch ditch method to extract the last remnants of hydrocarbon oil/gases wherever the effects on the environment .

It is dangerous, potentially destructive way of trying to extract gas/oil which can result in Minor earthquakes and contamination of the water table.

Should be avoided at all costs....

[joeysteele]

It was a worrying report this morning on the news for sure Kirk.

I think a lot more deep searching into it is needed before going ahead.

I have kept an open mind to it until now but that was a strong though provoking report.

[Nedusa]

Thankfully the price of oil/gas has dropped in recent month due to weakening demand and over supply. This in turn should make possible Fracking operations uneconomical and hopefully this whole Fracking nightmare will go away.

[arista]

But Kirk
no one can Frack unless its safe


We are not America

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

The proof that Fracking' causes earthquakes and has - God knows what - other dangerous and probably irreversible ecological consequences, is becoming more incontrovertible by the day.

None of us - no matter of which political persuasion - can stand by and let greedy bastard people in positions of authority and privilege, continue to cause future ecological disasters for the sake of profit now.

These selfish greedy bastards do not CARE what future damage they will cause by this process just as long as it makes them colossal amounts of money so that they can continue to live 'The Good Life' now. As usual, with ALL aspects of life, it will be us common people who pay for their greed.

You cannot FECK with nature.

Everyone who studied science and chemistry at school will know that Sodium explodes once in contact with water, and that it is stored safely in mineral oil.

Imagine a tall beaker. The bottom third is full of sodium, the middle third is mineral oil, and the top third is water. ALL SAFE while ever it is undisturbed.

Then let some idiot come along and suck up all the oil through the water layer leaving the sodium now in full contact with the water -- BOOM.

Now, I'm not saying this is LITERALLY (or chemically) what happens with Fracking - just that the cretinous principle is the same.

THEY MUST BE STOPPED.


http://news.sky.com/story/1467751/is...uakes-in-texas

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Put simply Fracking or hydraulic fracturing of lower strata gas bearing permeable rock is a desparate latch ditch method to extract the last remnants of hydrocarbon oil/gases wherever the effects on the environment .

It is dangerous, potentially destructive way of trying to extract gas/oil which can result in Minor earthquakes and contamination of the water table.

Should be avoided at all costs....

Ukip are basically the biggest supporters of fracking around though, that's not a deal breaker at all for you two then?

[kirklancaster]

Hi Joey and Nedusa,

There are lots of issues which make my blood boil and this - and the totally evil destruction of the Rainforests - is such.

None of us - NO HUMAN - owns this planet. We are no more than CARETAKERS who have a duty to look after it during our tenure for future generations.

We have yet to reap the catastrophic apocalyptic consequences of all which we have sown, but the signs are all here now and increasing in number and gravity - from climate change to the hole in our ozone layer.

I am not a 'Green' but I really believe that if something is not done soon to stop, or even limit, these moronic practices, then all the dystopian, nightmare, 'wasteland' scenarios of the future so beloved of SF writers, will become a reality.

'People Power' CAN stop this madness.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Ukip are basically the biggest supporters of fracking around though, that's not a deal breaker at all for you two then?

Not at all. Policies CAN be changed by the WILL of the people - as the Poll Tax protests prove. I do not personally hold with ALL UKIP's policies Matt, but I firmly believe that UKIP are the only party who promise to deal with the major issues - the ones which I DO personally believe are critical to the UK.

[Kizzy]

I've always said this is a really stupid idea, now an American company wants to dig the beautiful fields of Surrey more appear to be taking notice, when it was only Blackpool and surrounding town experiencing issues nobody wanted to know.
I still say the recent problems with smog are a direct result of fracking and nothing to do with car emissions or weather conditions in Europe.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I've always said this is a really stupid idea, now an American company wants to dig the beautiful fields of Surrey more appear to be taking notice, when it was only Blackpool and surrounding town experiencing issues nobody wanted to know.
I still say the recent problems with smog are a direct result of fracking and nothing to do with car emissions or weather conditions in Europe.

I accept that you DID oppose this abominable practice Kizzy, and you are right to, but my opposition to it transcends counties or even borders - I am for getting involved in trying to stop them Fracking anywhere in the world, as in the decimation of the rainforests, because I don't believe that ultimately, if left unchecked, the ecological consequences will be merely localised to the site of the fracking.

I sincerely believe that the entire planet could be at risk. They are like blindfolded baboons poking at a wasps nest with sticks.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I accept that you DID oppose this abominable practice Kizzy, and you are right to, but my opposition to it transcends counties or even borders - I am for getting involved in trying to stop them Fracking anywhere in the world, as in the decimation of the rainforests, because I don't believe that ultimately, if left unchecked, the ecological consequences will be merely localised to the site of the fracking.

I sincerely believe that the entire planet could be at risk. They are like blindfolded baboons poking at a wasps nest with sticks.

'Q. what other possibly lethal gas could be released by fracking?'

Here's a question I posed on the forum in October 2013, I got bored of waiting for a reply so this year I answered it myself in the smog thread.


'The death toll from air pollution, usually put at around 29,000 a year in the UK, could be substantially higher because the lethal effect of nitrogen dioxide (NO2), emitted during fossil fuel burning, has not been taken into account, experts believe.'

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...say-scientists

Liquid Nitrogen (LN2) is an effective alternative to carbon dioxide in many situations, especially in fracturing shallower wells. Linde supplies nitrogen to many areas of North America, through its network of air separation units. '

http://www.lindeus.com/en/industries...ing/index.html

Nitrogen oxides (NOx) consist of nitric oxide (NO), nitrogen dioxide (NO2) and nitrous oxide (N2O) and are formed when nitrogen (N2) combines with oxygen (O2).

http://dwb.unl.edu/teacher/nsf/c09/c...g/nitrogen.htm


My view on a thread in 2014...
'You don't have to buy renewables though... once the initial outlay it's just maintenance.
There are green deals set up for those communities who wish to invest. I can't help but think for the future I would feel more comfortable going down this road than the fracking/ nuclear route, which is also grossly expensive and if any problems occur the results would be catastrophic.'

Americas oil production has risen 4000% due to fracking I can't see them giving that up easily, the oligarchs rule.

[MTVN]

Kizzy and Kirk going for the TiBB's Greenest member award

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Kizzy and Kirk going for the TiBB's Greenest member award

I've been trying to raise this issue for 2yrs

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Kizzy and Kirk going for the TiBB's Greenest member award

The thing is; Kizzy seems to be arguing against herself I've AGREED with her.

[bots]

I think things need to be clarified a little. There is nothing inherently wrong with the process of fracking. Where the problem lies is in how we implement the process. Every safeguard needs to be put in place such that the environment remains stable around the area "fracked".

Has enough investigation been done into the consequences - no.
Do I trust companies to show due diligence when fracking - no

If they sort the above out, then it shouldn't be an issue, but until that's done, no ****ing fracking

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

The thing is; Kizzy seems to be arguing against herself I've AGREED with her.

I'm not arguing anything, I agreed with you that it was a worldwide issue it always was and always will be.
Even if I agree with you you choose to mock me.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I think things need to be clarified a little. There is nothing inherently wrong with the process of fracking. Where the problem lies is in how we implement the process. Every safeguard needs to be put in place such that the environment remains stable around the area "fracked".

Has enough investigation been done into the consequences - no.
Do I trust companies to show due diligence when fracking - no

If they sort the above out, then it shouldn't be an issue, but until that's done, no ****ing fracking

Eloquently put, and I may be persuaded if SUCH investigation is carried out and safeguards are then put in place.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm not arguing anything, I agreed with you that it was a worldwide issue it always was and always will be.
Even if I agree with you you choose to mock me.

Kizzy FFS lighten up - I am NOT mocking you. I was answering Matt's humorous post with the same humour. I am on good terms with you (at last) as just lately we seem to be discovering common ground.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I think things need to be clarified a little. There is nothing inherently wrong with the process of fracking. Where the problem lies is in how we implement the process. Every safeguard needs to be put in place such that the environment remains stable around the area "fracked".

Has enough investigation been done into the consequences - no.
Do I trust companies to show due diligence when fracking - no

If they sort the above out, then it shouldn't be an issue, but until that's done, no ****ing fracking

There is plenty wrong, from the escaping gasses to the water table to the potential for earthquake. Where are the geologists reports that suggest fracking is safe? ... There aren't any because it isn't, there's just the potential to be oil rich, that tops everything.
As you say the govt cant be trusted to put any safeguards in place or for it to be regulated sufficiently, not nearly enough research has been done it's a disaster waiting to happen.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Kizzy FFS lighten up - I am NOT mocking you. I was answering Matt's humorous post with the same humour. I am on good terms with you (at last) as just lately we seem to be discovering common ground.

Matt will get his legs slapped don't you worry, we do have some common ground finally so don't frack it up.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Matt will get his legs slapped don't you worry, we do have some common ground finally so don't frack it up.

Very clever.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Thankfully the price of oil/gas has dropped in recent month due to weakening demand and over supply. This in turn should make possible Fracking operations uneconomical and hopefully this whole Fracking nightmare will go away.

That becomes circular though : the very reason that there's an oversupply and prices have plummeted is BECAUSE fracking operations in the US have been so successful. As soon as the US is bled dry and has no sites left to exploit, supply will dwindle, demand will rise, and everyone else will be desperate to frack their countries to death.

Maybe, though, if the US has a big enough supply and keeps it up, there will be enough evidence of the disastrous consequences to put other countries off when it comes to going down that route.

There were plans to introduce fracking within a few miles of where I live quite recently. The local council and Scottish government managed to block them (people were going absolutely wild about it) but from what I've read, thats for a limited time and the issue will be revisited in future. It's something that genuinely worries me.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That becomes circular though : the very reason that there's an oversupply and prices have plummeted is BECAUSE fracking operations in the US have been so successful. As soon as the US is bled dry and has no sites left to exploit, supply will dwindle, demand will rise, and everyone else will be desperate to frack their countries to death.

Maybe, though, if the US has a big enough supply and keeps it up, there will be enough evidence of the disastrous consequences to put other countries off when it comes to going down that route.

There were plans to introduce fracking within a few miles of where I live quite recently. The local council and Scottish government managed to block them (people were going absolutely wild about it) but from what I've read, thats for a limited time and the issue will be revisited in future. It's something that genuinely worries me.

The USA is a huge land mass though, so it could take generations for effects to show up. Being a small island, you are never very far away from the coast and therefore any messing with the water table as they go underneath it to frack could have catastrophic effects.

[Helen 28]

Yes lets give up on fracking which can be perfectly safe if managed correctly and instead lets hold ourself to ransom to Russians and Sheiks.