[Beetlejuice]

Do people not realize that honesty without honor, integrity, wisdom, fairness, kindness, justice, responsibility and temperance is worth very little? Some of the most repugnant human beings in the history of the world have nevertheless been "honest". So what? Who cares? It doesn't tell us anything important about who you really are.

And in the case of Helen, she isn't even honest anyway. She sure as hell isn't honest with herself. And when people try to be honest with her she just talks over them to block it out. When she's given warnings she accepts them, but only because she has to. Not because she's honest enough to admit she's done wrong.

[Shaun]

[Withano]

I hate the whole "I'll tell it as it is, I'm not two faced. I hate you for these reasons" attitude that some Bb fans prefer to 'not being two faced'. It's just cruel and tactless.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Withano

I hate the whole "I'll tell it as it is, I'm not two faced. I hate you for these reasons" attitude that some Bb fans prefer to 'not being two faced'. It's just cruel and tactless.

It's the Jade Goody School Of Ethics

[Macie Lightfoot]

mhmm, Helen has the appearance of being a "real talker" because she just shouts the **** over everyone else, but she often tells half truths and whole lies. The perfect example I always go back to is from last year when she heard Ashleigh and Chris talk about her. They said that they were initially afraid of Helen but actually grew fond of her, but Helen just took what she wanted to her and determined that they were slagging her off and went around and bitched about it to Ash and Mark and Steven before confronting them and trying to get them to admit something that they didn't even say.

It really is alarming how many people both in the BB house and on this forum seem to think that "sayin it to your fookin face xxx" is an excuse to call someone a cumbucket or a fat **** or whatever else Marc and Helen have called people.

[Videostar]

Yeah, I've always preferred liars.

If you are using Helen (of all people) as the poster-child of "honesty" of course you wont find that an attractive quality in someone....but someone who is upfront with others and actually gives their opinion without being nasty would be someone to respect.

The Danny's and Chloe's of this BB world are non entities and should never be respected just because they "don't want to cause offense or rock the boat"...those characters are radar dodgers and have no place in the final of a BB...but sadly those types usually does make the final.

It's more brave to voice an opinion or take sides than it is to sit on the fence.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Videostar

but someone who is upfront with others and actually gives their opinion without being nasty would be someone to respect.

unfortunately "being upfront with others" and "giving opinions without being nasty" are mutually exclusive concepts on this show, it seems.

Also since Videostar brought it up, what is this obsession with sitting on the fence? Like, perhaps just *MAYBE* there are times where issues aren't black and white and it doesn't really make sense to pick a side. Try telling that to Katie Hopkins though (**** CBB15 omfg what an abhorrent series all-around)

[liqidclark]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

Like, perhaps just *MAYBE* there are times where issues aren't black and white and it doesn't really make sense to pick a side.

Reasonable ideas like that are thought-crimes in BB. Everything is about generating conflict and reveling in it like children, not resolving it like rational adults.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by liqidclark

Reasonable ideas like that are thought-crimes in BB. Everything is about generating conflict and reveling in it like children, not resolving it like rational adults.

I get what you and Macie are saying, but Housemates that never voice an opinion or rarely voice an opinion is what can make me angry as the whole point of BB is to see peoples reactions and hear their opinions to things.

[Macie Lightfoot]

That never really happens though? Like, we watch an hour of this godforsaken show every night for two to three months. Just by the sheer amount of content we watch we're going to see everyone state their opinions on certain situations, whether it be belligerently shouting at people or gossiping away from the action or chatting in the DR. I don't think any one method should be valued more than another because they're all appropriate at different times. Unfortunately though, BBUK has devolved into a nightmare where everyone is expected to tell it how it fookin is in the most socially unacceptable way possible, and if you don't partake in such behavior you are labeled a fence-sitter, which is really just BBUK slang for "my target this week."

I'm actually going to call on MAYSOON of all people and that moment when Stuart and Dale were giving her grief about being boring and not sharing her opinions and she just rolled her eyes at them and said that she doesn't have to share her opinions to impress them of all people <3 goddess

[sampvt]

Given the option to have a liar talk behind my back or a nobhead to tell me straight to my face, I would prefer to know my fate and not to let people spread a cancer of issues behind my back that can and often do get out of hand and get twisted leaving a trail of destruction behind, so yes I like the Helen approach.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I'm going to *gasp* SIT ON THE FENCE and say that while nobody obviously wants people talking about them behind their backs, I also wouldn't want Helen screaming at me that I'm a pigeon-chested ****, or whatever her generic insult of the day is.

(also, just because Helen has a reputation of being upfront and "saying it to your fookin face" doesn't mean that she won't talk **** behind your back either. It's always a double dosage with her because behind your back and to your face aren't mutually exclusive)

[bots]

why do people keep equating life in the BB house to the real world. Its not. Many of these so called honest characters or its only banter characters would be punched in the face if they ever tried it in the real world. It is only effective in a world where they are protected from aggressive action

[VanessaFeltz.]

it is an excuse to be a vile disgusting low life hateful bitch

[Niamh.]

Absolutely agree, I hate when nasty HMs behaviour is excused with the "honesty" tag. People can be honest with their opinions without being dicks or without just letting every thought they have pour out unedited. If we all said exactly what we thought all the time, the world would be a cruel and unfriendly place.

[smudgie]

Honesty, or just an excuse to mouth off about someone abusively.
All boils down to opinion, it's just the way that you give your opinion that matters.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Videostar

Yeah, I've always preferred liars.

If you are using Helen (of all people) as the poster-child of "honesty" of course you wont find that an attractive quality in someone....

She promotes herself as the poster-child of honesty. Anyone who doesn't let it all hang out in the most vulgar and obnoxious manner like her, she seems to think is somehow being dishonest or fraudulent.

but someone who is upfront with others and actually gives their opinion without being nasty would be someone to respect.

Yes, which Helen seems to be incapable of.

The Danny's and Chloe's of this BB world are non entities and should never be respected just because they "don't want to cause offense or rock the boat"...those characters are radar dodgers and have no place in the final of a BB...but sadly those types usually does make the final.

It's more brave to voice an opinion or take sides than it is to sit on the fence.

Both Danny and Chloe have given their opinions on numerous things. But because they don't do it in an aggressive manner, they get called "radar dodgers". Whilst the likes of Helen are celebrated as "Legends"

This is how low Big Brother has sunk and it has done so because the viewers actually go along with it.