[Dollface]

I get what they were saying but why did they all have to pipe up like that? He literally had Chloe, Danny, Sam & even Cristian bitching about him.

[Amy Jade]

Seemed to me they have all finally cottoned on to how manipulative and sly he is.

[RodHull]

Im surprised it took them this long, they never liked Joel they all bitched about him before the 4in 4out twist he just became useful to them to ally with until the final.

[Rorkimaru]

They need a target and Joel is peripheral and mellow enough to be a perfect punching bag. It's easier to target him than to target Sam for being a people pleaser. All Joel was doing was seeing if Sam just votes with the group which she does and was mentioned on BOTS a couple of times tonight too. It's not inherently wrong but I think he just wants her to stand up for herself more since he is an opinionated person.

They see him as sneaky and manipulative because they couldn't grasp what he was doing.

[vafunghoul]

All good points but I think it's all about their collective insecurities. He is far more educated and articulate than they are and with the numbers winding down in the house they see him as a big threat to win it all.

[JamesBond]

Originally Posted by Dollface

I get what they were saying but why did they all have to pipe up like that? He literally had Chloe, Danny, Sam & even Cristian bitching about him.

Danny saw another hero opportunity and got a semi.

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by vafunghoul

All good points but I think it's all about their collective insecurities. He is far more educated and articulate than they are and with the numbers winding down in the house they see him as a big threat to win it all.

It was hilarious watching them all latch on to the same points without any foundation... cause they couldnt argue with him

The reason they cant argue with him same with Ash and Marc was cause mostly hes right and they havent got a valid point. His intelligence intimidates and annoys them so they just resort to baseless name calling 'Joel your just x/y/z'

Im not overly keen on Joel as such but I respect his honesty and he is not intimidated by anyone. His point was sound as well, Sam was chatting s**t as usual...

'my mum told me to do right thing' err hold where was the moral choice here it was just some food or some money?? there was no moral choice no right or wrong.

And then after saying choosing the money was the moral choice she admitted shed have gone with the group and eaten the food had they voted against her. As usual she was chatting out of her arse and flapping her gums...

[johne]

Originally Posted by RodHull

It was hilarious watching them all latch on to the same points without any foundation...

What, without any foundation?? It's amazed me that sly manipulative Joel, with his constant "interview" method of holding a conversation, wasn't rumbled from week one. The guys mega creepy and will make an excellent politician some day.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Because he sucks? He's relentlessly patronizing and condescending straight from the Gerry Stergiopoulos school of faux intelligence.

[Tregard]

The argument is always "you're making me say things I don't want", which is such a non starter Joel shouldn't even bother talking to them. Maybe it's not that Joel is manipulative, but these people are just really frigging easy to "manipulate"

[Today]

Originally Posted by Tregard

The argument is always "you're making me say things I don't want", which is such a non starter Joel shouldn't even bother talking to them. Maybe it's not that Joel is manipulative, but these people are just really frigging easy to "manipulate"

Joel like most of the hm's is treated the programme as one extended interview for his Jeremy Kyle style role he's mapped out for himself. He seems to wish to combine this with a future in the conservative party as a back up for when he gets de-selected in the event he ever does get elected.
What the housemates problem is that they know he is manipulative but they simply cannot articulate well enough in an argument to demonstrate this.
There is one simple reason for this, because Joel controls the narrative of any discussion he is involved in and chooses those he will debate with very carefully. He restricts the conversations to his comfort zone which is rarely shared by any other hm, when the conversation strays outwith his boundary he skilfully returns it by uttering one of his simple stock statements, "but what you said earlier/yesterday/last week" "So what you are saying is" "so that's not the real issue for you" etc.
They know it's happening but are not recognising it when it does. That is their problem.
With one exception, Harry! He rarely engages her because she sees it coming and that is dangerous for him and risks exposure.
Jack has also sussed him out but is unable to combat this hence his outing of him both to his face and to the group. Jack blew his cover but was unable to deliver the killer blow so planted the seed with other housemates who eventually all twigged that what he was saying had merit.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Today

Joel like most of the hm's is treated the programme as one extended interview for his Jeremy Kyle style role he's mapped out for himself. He seems to wish to combine this with a future in the conservative party as a back up for when he gets de-selected in the event he ever does get elected.
What the housemates problem is that they know he is manipulative but they simply cannot articulate well enough in an argument to demonstrate this.
There is one simple reason for this, because Joel controls the narrative of any discussion he is involved in and chooses those he will debate with very carefully. He restricts the conversations to his comfort zone which is rarely shared by any other hm, when the conversation strays outwith his boundary he skilfully returns it by uttering one of his simple stock statements, "but what you said earlier/yesterday/last week" "So what you are saying is" "so that's not the real issue for you" etc.
They know it's happening but are not recognising it when it does. That is their problem.
With one exception, Harry! He rarely engages her because she sees it coming and that is dangerous for him and risks exposure.
Jack has also sussed him out but is unable to combat this hence his outing of him both to his face and to the group. Jack blew his cover but was unable to deliver the killer blow so planted the seed with other housemates who eventually all twigged that what he was saying had merit.

Excellent 1st post

Completely agree

[Patricia4]

I said last week when Marc went the next to get picked on will be Joel and I was right.

[Pete.]

The sly snake deserves clocking

[just thinkin]

anyone ever see that new programme on channel 4 - humans. that's joel

a monotonous mono-tone robot made out to be human.

[Today]

Originally Posted by just thinkin

anyone ever see that new programme on channel 4 - humans. that's joel

a monotonous mono-tone robot made out to be human.

It's the reverse actually, a human groomed to behave like a robot would be a more apt description

[Vicky.]

They no longer have Marc as a common enemy, they need someone else to target/blame all the house ills on I did think it was going to be Jack but he seems to have dodged that bullet..

[Alf]

I'm quite sure Joel enjoys it, he loves the cut and thrust of a good argument.