[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by the truth

Russia? 17 million square miles twice the size of any other country and 70 times the size of the uk and 860 times the size of wales who have offered to take more refugees than russia

Russia and Muslims though.

[smudgie]

Aren't most of the refugees trying to escape the Assad regime, which is being propped up by Russia?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Aren't most of the refugees trying to escape the Assad regime, which is being propped up by Russia?

Get out of this thread smudgie, with your common sense and reason... you have no place here.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Livia

Get out of this thread smudgie, with your common sense and reason... you have no place here.

To be honest, a lot of if goes straight over my muddled head.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by smudgie

To be honest, a lot of if goes straight over my muddled head.

Seems to me you have a very clear view of it!

[MTVN]

I'd say more civilians are fleeing IS than Assad in Syria, and just the war in general. There are no good sides in that conflict right now. Assad might be a dictator but Syria was still quite a sophisticated country before the war and many of those fleeing would once have had well paid jobs and good educations.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then our tiny overpopulated island should not be dropping bombs anywhere if we cannot give aid to those innocents displaced.I see your aversion to the term refugee and it does appear to be a rather blinkered view due to the magnitude of conflict in the world at present.
Your shoot first ask questions later attitude does not surprise me at all, it appears to be endemic due to the confusing mish mash of information we have to decipher.

Absolutely and well said.

I am giving up on this thread because the more I read it the more disillusioned with some people as to this so called great nation of ours to be admired I become.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I'd say more civilians are fleeing IS than Assad in Syria, and just the war in general. There are no good sides in that conflict right now. Assad might be a dictator but Syria was still quite a sophisticated country before the war and many of those fleeing would once have had well paid jobs and good educations.

How true. What a bloody mess it is... and how terrifying for ordinary families and ordinary people. It really annoys me though when it turns out the biggest b*stards in the whole sad mess turn out to be the Brits! Well, according to some of the posts on here.

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by Chaos

saw this on FB and I pretty much agree with it.

"The current migration crisis is so complicated at the moment that it is important to look at a range of points. It is a FACT that countries like Syria are war torn and currently inhabitable for the civilians. They are in the right to consider moving to another country for a better life. The problem is that an asylum seeker is meant to reside in the first safe country they visit. They in theory should have no reason to go West. However the starting countries like Greece and Turkey are ill equipped to deal with the sheer number of migrants arriving on their doorstep and therefore draws them to the more prosperous countries like Germany and the UK.

It is a FACT that our country is already being stretched economically by government cuts etc but we can deal with the crisis better than other countries. We should do whatever we can to help the genuine suffers of the crisis.

It is a FACT that some yes only want to come to the UK for benefits etc but an increasing number of migrants are in need of a better life. What the world actually NEEDS to do right now is to bring military action to Syria and eradicate ISIS and cease the holocaust like conditions Assad is using on its own people. This way the migrants would have NO reason to travel West. If we don't act fast it may led to more tragedies in the future."

The last time we took Military Action to the Middle East, the Western World effectively created and trained groups like IS and Al Nusra under the guise of "Heroic Rebels". Not much good going to battle terrorists while creating others.

[LeatherTrumpet]

We should just take women and children

All men should be set back and when the war stopsstops a ll can be returned.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

We should just take women and children

All men should be set back and when the war stopsstops a ll can be returned.

that's the most disgusting sexist trash ive ever read

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

How true. What a bloody mess it is... and how terrifying for ordinary families and ordinary people. It really annoys me though when it turns out the biggest b*stards in the whole sad mess turn out to be the Brits! Well, according to some of the posts on here.

By this you mean mine?... If you make a mess you have to help clean up, what did we think would happen that the Syrians would just stay there and die like good little foreigners?

[Ammi]

..some posts means some posts and opinions that feel the main blame lays with the British for this sad situation.. as there are indeed some/and quite a few posts where that view is upheld, really as stated I would think and nothing more...and nothing that Livia has posted or her opinion on this would equate in any way even remotely to... the Syrians can just stay there and die like good little foreigners ../kind of sounds a little like a 'trash media' term to me....

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by the truth

that's the most disgusting sexist trash ive ever read

For once I agree with you

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

The last time we took Military Action to the Middle East, the Western World effectively created and trained groups like IS and Al Nusra under the guise of "Heroic Rebels". Not much good going to battle terrorists while creating others.

to which I basically said

Originally Posted by Chaos

Thats why I personally believe we need to keep people there for as long as it will take. Even if we need to supervise for 50 years, it's better than having a war, ending it, people leaving, the tyrants getting strong again, war again etc etc. We need to keep people out there. Whether its armies, military bases, CIA etc etc, we have to keep it supervised.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Chaos

to which I basically said

Yes we definitely need people out there looking after the citizens, possibly destroying weapons supplies, enforcing a banning of weapon sales to those countries or something of the sort.. I'm no military strategist.

But I disagree with bombings because there have been far too many civilian casualties that we cannot justify

[Ninastar]

Oh and within that idea/plan/thought/whatever I have above, I think we should also focus on rebuilding schools/hospitals/homes etc etc and ensure a happier/more peaceful living environment for the places which have been destroyed. We should ensure that people can go to school without being shot for being a different religion. We as a nation, should ensure that these people can live a normal life, without the young boys (and even some girls) being lured into terrorism. They should be given the right to have a proper education. And I believe that we as a nation can do that.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Yes we definitely need people out there looking after the citizens, possibly destroying weapons supplies, enforcing a banning of weapon sales to those countries or something of the sort.. I'm no military strategist.

But I disagree with bombings because there have been far too many civilian casualties that we cannot justify

I also disagree with bombings. I think we should have armies out there taking out the terrorists by hand or whatever. I don't agree with war, esp because innocent people die, but sometimes I think it's needed. I think having soldiers and the army etc out there, would have less innocent people killed than having bombs dropped out of the sky willy nilly.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..some posts means some posts and opinions that feel the main blame lays with the British for this sad situation.. as there are indeed some/and quite a few posts where that view is upheld, really as stated I would think and nothing more...and nothing that Livia has posted or her opinion on this would equate in any way even remotely to... the Syrians can just stay there and die like good little foreigners ../kind of sounds a little like a 'trash media' term to me....

Ok is this to me? I sound like 'trash media' that's strange because I was just thinking the same about some posts on this issue across the board today.
Us Brits can do no wrong atm eh? don't take refugees, bomb Syria, taking (some)refugees, bomb Syria, kicking refugees out at 18, ... it's all gravy.

[MTVN]

Any UK military activity in Syria has been minimal and all very recent. We might have contributed to the destabilisation of the region but it is hardly as if Syria would be a haven without us or that there would be no civil war.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Any UK military activity in Syria has been minimal and all very recent. We might have contributed to the destabilisation of the region but it is hardly as if Syria would be a haven without us or that there would be no civil war.

That's beside the point, it's like starting a fire in Hull and saying 'oh well it's a ****hole anyway'.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That's beside the point, it's like starting a fire in Hull and saying 'oh well it's a ****hole anyway'.

It's not besides the point because you keep implying that the entire Syrian crisis has its origin in UK foreign policy ('we made the mess', 'we started the fire' etc.): it does not.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Any UK military activity in Syria has been minimal and all very recent. We might have contributed to the destabilisation of the region but it is hardly as if Syria would be a haven without us or that there would be no civil war.

That's true. And although we (and by "we" I mean the coalition of countries who participated) have contributed to the destabilisation, the countries of the Middle East are hardly blameless.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's not besides the point because you keep implying that the entire Syrian crisis has its origin in UK foreign policy ('we made the mess', 'we started the fire' etc.): it does not.

The entire crisis?..No I haven't implied that, 'we' by our questionable actions have a degree of culpability. The refugee issue will worsen very soon, as we are 'informed' ( after the fact) about targeted attacks being carried out.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's true. And although we (and by "we" I mean the coalition of countries who participated) have contributed to the destabilisation, the countries of the Middle East are hardly blameless.

Exactly what I was saying earlier:

But no one is against giving aid to displaced innocents' - only 'opportunists' who voluntarily leave their countries and travel 'Westward Ho' in search of 'La Dolce Vita' - and surely, it is not only naive to claim that these countries were completely stable 'paradises' even before our involvement, but also the degree of culpability that we have for the current 'Status Quo' is highly contentious.