[Kizzy]

A Strangeways prisoner who scaled a fence while stripped to just his underwear is into the second day of his apparent protest.

The prisoner, now known to be Stuart Horner, a convicted murderer who is serving 27 years inside for killing his uncle, has been on the roof since around 2pm on Sunday.

He shouted things to reporters and photographers throughout the night and members of the public gathered outside.

He also wrote a note his t-shirt saying: "It's not 1990 tell the Gov we've all had enough. Sort the whole system"

Police and prison riot officers have been keeping a watchful eye, as he clambers across roofs inside the Strangeways compound, causing damage along the way.

This morning Horner continued to shout and smash glass panes across the roofs, and claimed he would stay up there for '40 days and nights'.

Must be cold..... tiddler on the roof

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....oftop-10047129

[AnnieK]

Oh dear......

[Kizzy]

He's right it isn't 1990 these tories don't give a toss, they'll send katie hopkins in with a rifle.
Dave wants to privatise the prisons so it won't get any better, they'll go the same way as the NHS run down until put into 'special measures'.

[JoshBB]

What is he protesting?

[Cherie]

At least he can protest unlike his uncle

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

What is he protesting?

1990...

Bill Gould, aged 32, said he had been in and out of nearly every jail in the country, but Strangeways was one of the worst. ‘The prison should have been burned down years ago. It is a barbaric regime ruled by brutality and drug abuse.’ He shouted at the protesters to hold out. ‘You’ll be battered and then banged for a long time when you come down. They did it to me when I was involved in a riot situation.’

He said he had been inside the Manchester jail five times and was not condemning all prison staff, only those who used drugs as a ‘liquid cosh because it was the only way for them to keep control.’

David Waddington, the Home Secretary, has agreed to meet leaders of the Prison Officers’ Association on Wednesday to hear their complaints about understaffing. '

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...c-archive-1990


Now...
The M.E.N. can reveal the catalogue of violence that has erupted in Strangeways over the last month as the jail reaches ‘boiling point’.

The prison has been simmering for several months due to an alleged staffing crisis and prisoners spending up to 23 hours locked up resulting in a spate of incidents.

In the last five weeks six staff and 23 prisoners have been assaulted and in the same period there have been 19 incidents of self harm.

A spokesman for the Prison Officers Association said the situation had reached ‘boiling point’.
The POA spokesman added: “Nationally the level of serious violence across the prison estate has risen dramatically. Serious assaults on staff are up 48 per cent in the last year according to the latest data from NOMS.

Within the High Security Estate, Manchester is a cause for most concern as the pressure to deliver more with less staff hits home.

“The year on year budget cuts and staff shortfalls across the prison estate are the main underlying cause to the increase in violence, low staff morale and prisoner unrest.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....dents-10051582

[kirklancaster]

As Cherie said;

"At least he can protest unlike his uncle".

One well trained sniper would solve this situation, prevent more expensive damage being caused, and save the tax-payer a lot of money in keeping this murderer in luxury for years to come.

Where's the problem?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

1990...

Bill Gould, aged 32, said he had been in and out of nearly every jail in the country, but Strangeways was one of the worst. ‘The prison should have been burned down years ago. It is a barbaric regime ruled by brutality and drug abuse.’ He shouted at the protesters to hold out. ‘You’ll be battered and then banged for a long time when you come down. They did it to me when I was involved in a riot situation.’

He said he had been inside the Manchester jail five times and was not condemning all prison staff, only those who used drugs as a ‘liquid cosh because it was the only way for them to keep control.’

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....dents-10051582

"Bill Gould, aged 32, said he had been in and out of nearly every jail in the country"

"He said he had been inside the Manchester jail five times"

And we are here CRITICISING THE PRISONS?

Strangeways is so barbaric, in human and intolerable, that this imbecilic waste of air has voluntarily been inside it 5 TIMES.

Do me a favour.

[Kizzy]

The problem is with the prison system and public services in general, that's the wider debate here if you shot him then would everything in the prison be hunky dory?
I'm going to be branded a 'bleeding heart' again I know but if you widen your perspective then it's easy to see that improving conditions in prisons is of the greatest benefit. I'm not saying have them in luxury by any means, my worry is for the staff... it's a pressure cooker and with assaults up 48% it proves the draconian measures aren't working.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

"Bill Gould, aged 32, said he had been in and out of nearly every jail in the country"

"He said he had been inside the Manchester jail five times"

And we are here CRITICISING THE PRISONS?

Strangeways is so barbaric, in human and intolerable, that this imbecilic waste of air has voluntarily been inside it 5 TIMES.

Do me a favour.

I don't know I'm not getting into some deep discussion on social stratification, what this man has done with his life is not the issue here.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't know I'm not getting into some deep discussion on social stratification, what this man has done with his life is not the issue here.

More to the point, is what this **** has done to SOMEONE ELSE'S life - he ended it violently.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

More to the point, is what this **** has done to SOMEONE ELSE'S life - he ended it violently.

It's not the point, I understand your opinion on the protester.

[bitontheslide]

The point Kirk is making is that 5 times the man had the opportunity to turn his life around and not end up back in the "hell hole" If it really was so so bad, he would have made sure he didn't end up back there

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The problem is with the prison system and public services in general, that's the wider debate here if you shot him then would everything in the prison be hunky dory?
I'm going to be branded a 'bleeding heart' again I know but if you widen your perspective then it's easy to see that improving conditions in prisons is of the greatest benefit. I'm not saying have them in luxury by any means, my worry is for the staff... it's a pressure cooker and with assaults up 48% it proves the draconian measures aren't working.

Prisons are already virtual 'hotels' - which is exactly WHY guests keep returning. The average prisoner is better fed and kept warmer than the average Old Age Pensioner, and have access to free Television, PC's - you name it.

The untenable position within prisons has but one cause - weakness.

When discipline went out of the window 40 years or so ago, prisons quickly became a joke.

My heart is breaking.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The point Kirk is making is that 5 times the man had the opportunity to turn his life around and not end up back in the "hell hole" If it really was so so bad, he would have made sure he didn't end up back there

Thank you BitOnTheSlide - I'm so glad you get it.

[Kizzy]

Yes it's a hotel that's why there are so many staff at risk :/

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes it's a hotel that's why there are so many staff at risk :/

Among many other examples of 'Prisoner Appeasement', Prison Officers in MANY prisons are now officially told to turn a 'blind eye' to drug dealing and usage so as not to 'endanger' the stability of the prison.

No prisoners are in jail for 'keeping to the rules' and 'respecting' them, so how do we expect the very worst of them to abide by prison rules without discipline, deterrent, and punishment?

Appeasement and weakness DO NOT WORK.

The 'bad guys' will always want more. Will always capitalise on weakness.

This is true in EVERY walk of life.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Among many other examples of 'Prisoner Appeasement', Prison Officers in MANY prisons are now officially told to turn a 'blind eye' to drug dealing and usage so as not to 'endanger' the stability of the prison.

No prisoners are in jail for 'keeping to the rules' and 'respecting' them, so how do we expect the very worst of them to abide by prison rules without discipline, deterrent, and punishment?

Appeasement and weakness DO NOT WORK.

The 'bad guys' will always want more. Will always capitalise on weakness.

This is true in EVERY walk of life.

Source?

[kirklancaster]

My primary sources are two Prison Officer friends and my brother who worked as a Senior Prison Officer for over 20 years at jails such as Armley and Wakefield and a book called 'Drugs In Prison' by Steve Gravett.

However, the internet is full of it:

www.rt.com/uk/235759-serco-corruption-allegations-drugs/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/prisoner-ha...nd-eye-1517658

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...zero-tolerance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31625243

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

My primary sources are two Prison Officer friends and my brother who worked as a Senior Prison Officer for over 20 years at jails such as Armley and Wakefield and a book called 'Drugs In Prison' by Steve Gravett.

However, the internet is full of it:

www.rt.com/uk/235759-serco-corruption-allegations-drugs/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/prisoner-ha...nd-eye-1517658

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...zero-tolerance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31625243

Your first link is to a privately run immigration centre not a prison, seeing as dave now wants prisons in the private sector then that's a good omen isn't it?
The last isn't a prison either but a privately run centre.

Non of the links address staffing issues which appear to be at the crux of the protest.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Your first link is to a privately run immigration centre not a prison, seeing as dave now wants prisons in the private sector then that's a good omen isn't it?
The last isn't a prison either but a privately run centre.

Non of the links address staffing issues which appear to be at the crux of the protest.

I believe that you asked for my sources based on my claim that some prison officers are being officially told to turn a blind eye to drug dealing and usage etc, and now that I have answered you, you 'move the goalposts' onto 'Staffing Levels'

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I believe that you asked for my sources based on my claim that some prison officers are being officially told to turn a blind eye to drug dealing and usage etc, and now that I have answered you, you 'move the goalposts' onto 'Staffing Levels'

And from the links you provided 2 are irrelevant and they are not prisons, one is about an inmate allegedly having sex in a shower whilst paralysed in hospital and another about Chris Grayling announcing a crackdown on drugs in prison... So where is this 'blind eye'?

I haven't moved any goal posts, my point all along has been staffing levels impacting on the prison system.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

At least he can protest unlike his uncle

[smudgie]

Hope we are in for a cold spell, freeze the beggar then we taxpayers won't have to pay for his upkeep.

[Northern Monkey]

This is kind of embarrassing.I thought the police would have learned how to deal with these situations by now.They've had plenty of practice in the past.It's only one man ffs.