[Ammi]

...sadly I think that it's often so easy to feel that there are so many bad people in the world/a proportion much larger than there actually is because it's those people who demand attention and demand recognition for their evil acts in the lives they take and the lives they destroy when they take...when we see the very bad and the very worst, I think it's important to also acknowledge the very good and the very best...there are many, many 'heroes' out there, very many good people and I think much more so than there are the opposite of that...maybe they all should receive awards, are all deserving...but that would be the wrong that they were not appropriately acknowledged for showing us the very good in people..this is a time to get it right though because ..not because his act was more brave or more heroic but because I think we need to absorb and celebrate and remind ourselves of the Bernard Kennys in existence at times like this..it's a balance and it's an appropriate balance..good/evil...and if we've got it wrong in the past then let's not keep getting it wrong but get it right this time...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

strange how none of these politicians have mentioned bernard in the last few days?
it was his 78th birthday today and he was released from hospital yet not a camera or a polirician in sight? clearly he didnt serve their pro eu agenda

I think in time he will be asked if he wants to give a interview, maybe he himself asked for little publicity.

This man is bound to have some fear and even still some shock too now,being almost 80,after trying to aid someone being so brutally murdered and then stabbed himself too by the sick individual who did it.

He is still not fully fit again and was going home to recuperate.
It may have been felt too that he would get targeted verbally by some as to the EU referendum, as to being used to make capital for the remain side.

I agree with you, they could have been there to see him discharged from Hospital but it is just my guess, maybe he did not want any fuss or publicity at this time.
I do feel sure and hope so too, when he himself is ready he will likely talk about this tragic and brutal murder that day.

[Cherie]

It's quite likely he has asked for no fuss, he is from that generation, the media are to be applauded for leaving him alone as Im sure they all want his story.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It's quite likely he has asked for no fuss, he is from that generation, the media are to be applauded for leaving him alone as Im sure they all want his story.

Yes, another good point as to the media.
Who usually are like hungry wolves for any story but on this I think it shows a bit more respect for his wishes than anything else.

[Ninastar]

I totally think he deserves an award. 77 is no age to be fighting off a criminal/murderer. He's a hero, there's no other way to put it. But I do agree with Livia when she says if it was a Torie who was murdered, there would be no where near as much fuss. Oh well, give the man an award for his bravery anyway.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I totally think he deserves an award. 77 is no age to be fighting off a criminal/murderer. He's a hero, there's no other way to put it. But I do agree with Livia when she says if it was a Torie who was murdered, there would be no where near as much fuss. Oh well, give the man an award for his bravery anyway.

Oh is that what she meant?... That's a horrible thing to presume, and I'd hope very wrong.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh is that what she meant?... That's a horrible thing to presume, and I'd hope very wrong.

Actually, that was a passing comment, not my main point but still true in my opinion based on countless historic posts on this forum.

What I actually mean, for anyone that's still struggling... Soldiers do acts of bravery in a battle zone regularly, selfless acts that put their own lives at risk. They don't all get the Victoria Cross. And while this man is undoubtedly a hero and should be recognised publically in some way, I don't believe the George Medal is suitable in this case.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

Actually, that was a passing comment, not my main point but still true in my opinion based on countless historic posts on this forum.

What I actually mean, for anyone that's still struggling... Soldiers do acts of bravery in a battle zone regularly, selfless acts that put their own lives at risk. They don't all get the Victoria Cross. And while this man is undoubtedly a hero and should be recognised publically in some way, I don't believe the George Medal is suitable in this case.

Soldiers are trained to react to situations though and whilst I understand your point, I think a civilian stepping in when a gun and a knife are involved is particularly brave.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Soldiers are trained to react to situations though and whilst I understand your point, I think a civilian stepping in when a gun and a knife are involved is particularly brave.

Soldiers are humans, they're not robots.

Anyhoo... I've said the same thing over and over again, I don't think I need say it all again.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

Soldiers are humans, they're not robots.

Anyhoo... I've said the same thing over and over again, I don't think I need say it all again.

Trained for conflict humans

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Trained for conflict humans

Fired on my invisible snipers, inches away from IUDs, in constant danger of being killed, not knowing which person is your enemy... yeah, it's exactly the same. They're all trained to handle that like a robot.

[kirklancaster]

I have to agree with you Livia.

This brave guy was heroic and DESERVED recognition for his selfless valour by way of some official award or medal, but awarding him The George Cross would be demeaning to countless other equally as brave people who have committed heroic deeds - some who have even lost their lives in doing so - who have not received this particular award.


Incidentally, I am no spring chicken, though considerably younger than Bernard, but I would have done EXACTLY the same as he did, God Bless him.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I totally think he deserves an award. 77 is no age to be fighting off a criminal/murderer. He's a hero, there's no other way to put it. But I do agree with Livia when she says if it was a Torie who was murdered, there would be no where near as much fuss. Oh well, give the man an award for his bravery anyway.

If it had been a Conservative, UKIP in fact any MP,I would still have been one for certain who would have expressed the same horror and disgust.

I would certainly too still be calling for any 77 year old man who went to try to help and got stabbed himself, to be given one of the highest awards for doing so.
I'd never even dream of bringing politics into it as to what party the MP was from, my disgust was at the senseless brutal murder of that MP who was another human being.

I think you and others may well have been massively surprised at the response from others,(no need to pre-judge people),even had it been a Conservative or any other MP, because most people wouldn't even think on those lines at the news of such a brutal and cruel end to anyone's life.

I would not for sure,and certainly will not either, want to qualify what award he should get either,for me none is too great in fact.
Also probably the gentleman himself is not even thinking he warrants one himself.

Even less likely would he want any big honour, if he came across people on party lines begrudging him certain ones.
Sick, it is bad enough someone lost their young life so cruelly.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I have to agree with you Livia.

This brave guy was heroic and DESERVED recognition for his selfless valour by way of some official award or medal, but awarding him The George Cross would be demeaning to countless other equally as brave people who have committed heroic deeds - some who have even lost their lives in doing so - who have not received this particular award.


Incidentally, I am no spring chicken, though considerably younger than Bernard, but I would have done EXACTLY the same as he did, God Bless him.

This man very nearly lost his life in fact, he was stabbed in the stomach, a 77 year old man, he is fortunate to still even be alive especially with the shock element added to that too.

I don't agree at all with anyone who would take that stand, no honour should even be seen as begrudged even if one is ever given, this is all before he even gets one.

My Father and My older Brothers all served in the armed forces, none of them think he shouldn't get this medal, people are calling for.

How much more heroic does anyone have to be at the age of 77, to see a woman being stabbed and gunned down, totally defenceless, and then rush to try to save her life if he could.
Risking his own with no thought for himself.

That's a pretty good measure of a hero in my book.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh is that what she meant?... That's a horrible thing to presume, and I'd hope very wrong.

Even the vast majority of Pilots, Sailors and Soldiers I doubt would not begrudge this man that honour,I dare bet money on that.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This man very nearly lost his life in fact, he was stabbed in the stomach, a 77 year old man, he is fortunate to still even be alive especially with the shock element added to that too.

I don't agree at all with anyone who would take that stand, no honour should even be seen as begrudged even if one is ever given, this is all before he even gets one.

My Father and My older Brothers all served in the armed forces, none of them think he shouldn't get this medal, people are calling for.

How much more heroic does anyone have to be at the age of 77, to see a woman being stabbed and gunned down, totally defenceless, and then rush to try to save her life if he could.
Risking his own with no thought for himself.

That's a pretty good measure of a hero in my book.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This man very nearly lost his life in fact, he was stabbed in the stomach, a 77 year old man, he is fortunate to still even be alive especially with the shock element added to that too.

I don't agree at all with anyone who would take that stand, no honour should even be seen as begrudged even if one is ever given, this is all before he even gets one.

My Father and My older Brothers all served in the armed forces, none of them think he shouldn't get this medal, people are calling for.

How much more heroic does anyone have to be at the age of 77, to see a woman being stabbed and gunned down, totally defenceless, and then rush to try to save her life if he could.
Risking his own with no thought for himself.

That's a pretty good measure of a hero in my book.

None of the above is ACTUALLY relevant to Livia's post or mine Joey, but I am not going to repeat what I said because it is futile and my post - and its meaning - is still there to be read -- as is Livia's.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

None of the above is ACTUALLY relevant to Livia's post or mine Joey, but I am not going to repeat what I said because it is futile and my post - and its meaning - is still there to be read -- as is Livia's.

I think it is very relevant indeed actually.

You said Heroic acts should only get the medal, you then said,'your words', it would be demeaning to others to give this man this medal just because some others didn't get one.

I pointed out how over and above his personal call of duty, just how heroic this man's act was even at the age of 77.

I have read all the posts you mention unfortunately,and, except for your initial response here and your decent response on the thread dealing with Jo's tragic murder too, I find them rather petty,begrudging and sickening to be honest.

I agree 100% with 'the truth' who made this thread calling for him to get this award,massive credit to 'the truth' for that from me.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This man very nearly lost his life in fact, he was stabbed in the stomach, a 77 year old man, he is fortunate to still even be alive especially with the shock element added to that too.

I don't agree at all with anyone who would take that stand, no honour should even be seen as begrudged even if one is ever given, this is all before he even gets one.

My Father and My older Brothers all served in the armed forces, none of them think he shouldn't get this medal, people are calling for.

How much more heroic does anyone have to be at the age of 77, to see a woman being stabbed and gunned down, totally defenceless, and then rush to try to save her life if he could.
Risking his own with no thought for himself.

That's a pretty good measure of a hero in my book.

Very well said Joey.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think it is very relevant indeed actually.

You said Heroic acts should only get the medal, you then said,'your words', it would be demeaning to others to give this man this medal.

I pointed out just how over and above his personal call of duty, just how heroic this man's act was even at the age of 77.

I have read all the posts unfortunately and find them rather petty,begrudging and sickening to be honest.

Here in its unaltered entirety is my post:

"I have to agree with you Livia.

This brave guy was heroic and DESERVED recognition for his selfless valour by way of some official award or medal, but awarding him The George Cross would be demeaning to countless other equally as brave people who have committed heroic deeds - some who have even lost their lives in doing so - who have not received this particular award.

Incidentally, I am no spring chicken, though considerably younger than Bernard, but I would have done EXACTLY the same as he did, God Bless him."
__________________

Now let us just analyse what I actually said and compare it with what you claim I said:

YOU CLAIM:

"You said Heroic acts should only get the medal"

I ACTUALLY SAID:

"This brave guy was heroic and DESERVED recognition for his selfless valour by way of some official award or medal"

YOU CLAIM:

" you then said,'your words', it would be demeaning to others to give this man this medal."

I ACTUALLY SAI

"but awarding him The George Cross would be demeaning to countless other equally as brave people who have committed heroic deeds - some who have even lost their lives in doing so - who have not received this particular award."

Despite taking my words out of context, clearly YOUR interpretation of what I wrote is wrong.

I have nothing but admiration for this brave selfless man and nothing but sorrow for the senseless tragic death of the all too young and beautiful, caring MP Jo Cox, and I have never stated that anyone's reaction to this horrific incident would be any different had it been a Tory, Green or UKIP MP, because I personally do not believe it would be - senseless, brutal taking of innocent life is abhorrent - no matter what political persuasion the victim(s) may have had.

[Niamh.]

seriously can't believe that there is arguments breaking out on a thread about something so well intentioned

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

seriously can't believe that there is arguments breaking out on a thread about something so well intentioned

I agree Niamh, and the great sad irony is - that apart from the type of medal - NO ONE is actually disagreeing.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Here in its unaltered entirety is my post:

"I have to agree with you Livia.

This brave guy was heroic and DESERVED recognition for his selfless valour by way of some official award or medal, but awarding him The George Cross would be demeaning to countless other equally as brave people who have committed heroic deeds - some who have even lost their lives in doing so - who have not received this particular award.

Incidentally, I am no spring chicken, though considerably younger than Bernard, but I would have done EXACTLY the same as he did, God Bless him."
__________________

Now let us just analyse what I actually said and compare it with what you claim I said:

YOU CLAIM:

"You said Heroic acts should only get the medal"

I ACTUALLY SAID:

"This brave guy was heroic and DESERVED recognition for his selfless valour by way of some official award or medal"

YOU CLAIM:

" you then said,'your words', it would be demeaning to others to give this man this medal."

I ACTUALLY SAI

"but awarding him The George Cross would be demeaning to countless other equally as brave people who have committed heroic deeds - some who have even lost their lives in doing so - who have not received this particular award."

Despite taking my words out of context, clearly YOUR interpretation of what I wrote is wrong.

I have nothing but admiration for this brave selfless man and nothing but sorrow for the senseless tragic death of the all too young and beautiful, caring MP Jo Cox, and I have never stated that anyone's reaction to this horrific incident would be any different had it been a Tory, Green or UKIP MP, because I personally do not believe it would be - senseless, brutal taking of innocent life is abhorrent - no matter what political persuasion the victim(s) may have had.

Read my amended post.I missed part of your quote off. My apologies for that.

It was stated had this been a Tory MP the reaction would have been different from people,I say it would not.
No one could even know that.

Many like yourself, no lovers of Labour at all,have only expressed their horror at the murder of this poor Woman and the admiration for this man's bravery.
I was one of the first to condemn the attacks on Nigel Farage when out with his family.

I think it inappropriate to score a party point from a murder and the heroic actions of this man.
I am not going to argue with you but find it sad you take the stance you have now.
At least you made a point of posting on Jo's murder thread expressing your shock and sadness at her cruel and senseless murder.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I agree Niamh, and the great sad irony is - that apart from the type of medal - NO ONE is actually disagreeing.

Who really gives a s**t about the type of medal ffs

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

seriously can't believe that there is arguments breaking out on a thread about something so well intentioned

Sorry Niamh, I will get off this thread now, I worked half a day with Jo last year in her election campaign and she made a bigger good impression on me than many people who have been in my life for years.

For me however any honour to this man I would support but if he gets the one called for in the opening post of this thread, then for me it is well and truly deserved, and should not be conditional in any way.
No more arguments from me, my apologies again.