[Maru]

Several 911 calls were made about a man with a gun, one saying he was suicidal.

Look at it this way... he's in front of a assisted care facility and a man is seen trying to "coax" or "talk" to the troubled and likely agitated resident. If they had been told about the 911 calls (likely) and they see the supposed "gunman" yelling back to the other man or otherwise appearing overly agitated with a weapon, then fitting 911 caller's description, the police then may think they also have cause to think it is a potential aggravated man with a gun with a possible suicide in progress...

Supposedly the cop was firing at the man on the ground and that would make sense seeing as the staff member was hit in the leg. Of course sometimes they do aim for the leg... wouldn't make sense in this case if they weren't trying to shoot the other guy because he was right there also

If only they had full video of this... could show this to a class because I think it's a good example of how appearances can be very deceiving even when you think you have all the correct information.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Official statistics are always riddled in intricacies and variables like under reporting, lying on surveys, consistent boundary changing by the researchers which has a knock-on effect on the results, prejudices from the researchers meaning certain areas and people are overanalysed thus skewing the data, etc etc etc. They have just as many problems. But you know this already

yes jack this extensive survey is as as good if not equal to seeing a you tube clip


give yer head a wobble lad

[Tom4784]

Another indefensible act of violence from an incompetent officer that shouldn't be allowed a stapler without supervision never mind a gun.

I look forward to see how racists try to spin this into being the victim's fault.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes jack this extensive survey is as as good if not equal to seeing a you tube clip


give yer head a wobble lad

You continue being disingenuous and ignoring facts fam

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Maru

Several 911 calls were made about a man with a gun, one saying he was suicidal.

Look at it this way... he's in front of a assisted care facility and a man is seen trying to "coax" or "talk" to the troubled and likely agitated resident. If they had been told about the 911 calls (likely) and they see the supposed "gunman" yelling back to the other man or otherwise appearing overly agitated with a weapon, then fitting 911 caller's description, the police then may think they also have cause to think it is a potential aggravated man with a gun with a possible suicide in progress...

Supposedly the cop was firing at the man on the ground and that would make sense seeing as the staff member was hit in the leg. Of course sometimes they do aim for the leg... wouldn't make sense in this case if they weren't trying to shoot the other guy because he was right there also

If only they had full video of this... could show this to a class because I think it's a good example of how appearances can be very deceiving even when you think you have all the correct information.

Again, what you're saying is this is all OK if it's true that he was aiming at the other man. A distressed, confused and scared autistic person. That's who he was aiming at? In my opinion that only makes his actions worse.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Maru

Several 911 calls were made about a man with a gun, one saying he was suicidal.

Look at it this way... he's in front of a assisted care facility and a man is seen trying to "coax" or "talk" to the troubled and likely agitated resident. If they had been told about the 911 calls (likely) and they see the supposed "gunman" yelling back to the other man or otherwise appearing overly agitated with a weapon, then fitting 911 caller's description, the police then may think they also have cause to think it is a potential aggravated man with a gun with a possible suicide in progress...

Supposedly the cop was firing at the man on the ground and that would make sense seeing as the staff member was hit in the leg. Of course sometimes they do aim for the leg... wouldn't make sense in this case if they weren't trying to shoot the other guy because he was right there also

If only they had full video of this... could show this to a class because I think it's a good example of how appearances can be very deceiving even when you think you have all the correct information.

..yeah that was my initial thought as well, Maru...(it's so annoying because the actual shot isn't in the vid and that seems quite odd..?..)...but maybe his hand with the toy truck was fleetingly in front of Charles Kinsey's leg and it was to try to shoot the gun out of his hand to remove the danger and the threat, which the officers couldn't be certain of ...this is almost like one of the situations that Mr Maru posted of a 'training scenario', isn't it ..which have made me think a lot so I'm really reluctant to try to judge it from media releases ...the thing that really concerns me though..(if true..)...is that when Charles asked the officer why he fired his weapon..?...he said that he didn't know and that should never ever be an acceptable answer...even if calls are made incorrectly and they must inevitably be sometimes..an officer should always be able to reply to 'why..?..'....hmmmm....

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again, what you're saying is this is all OK if it's true that he was aiming at the other man. A distressed, confused and scared autistic person. That's who he was aiming at? In my opinion that only makes his actions worse.

Never said anything was OK.

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah that was my initial thought as well, Maru...(it's so annoying because the actual shot isn't in the vid and that seems quite odd..?..)...but maybe his hand with the toy truck was fleetingly in front of Charles Kinsey's leg and it was to try to shoot the gun out of his hand to remove the danger and the threat, which the officers couldn't be certain of ...this is almost like one of the situations that Mr Maru posted of a 'training scenario', isn't it ..which have made me think a lot so I'm really reluctant to try to judge it from media releases ...the thing that really concerns me though..(if true..)...is that when Charles asked the officer why he fired his weapon..?...he said that he didn't know and that should never ever be an acceptable answer...even if calls are made incorrectly and they must inevitably be sometimes..an officer should always be able to reply to 'why..?..'....hmmmm....

I don't really know what to suggest should change with regards to training except maybe to show the situations where false information can make a situation seem something it is not. Clearly they can't just go by 911 calls for all their information. An eyewitness account (someone on scene) might be a better solution, but even then you open yourself up to risk...

Ultimately though there's really no way to completely remove human error.

It might've been a good idea though for the facility to have called 911 at the time that he got out (and maybe they did for all we know ) to let them know a patient escaped and voluntarily give out information that he is unarmed. I would even suggest it should be a high priority call for law enforcement to answer the calls because the sooner they are back in a facility, the less they are a harm to themselves and the public.

Maybe at that point when more agencies have adopted units trained in mental health issues, those calls can be hopefully be answered by those specific units instead of regular officers.