[Vicky.]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...the-front-line

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/179920...ng-born-a-boy/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...gender-soldie/

Sorry for the sun link but it seems the only rag willing to put the full story.

Basically 'Chloe' joined the army 4 years ago. Completed training and such as a man. Changed her name last month. Recently started taking hormones. Came 'out' as transgender when caught crossdressing. And is now celebrated as the first female on the front line.

Now, I know this is a touchy subject on here, but is this really right? What I mean by this is that the actual first woman on the frontline will have overcome huge obstacles to do so and is not expected until 2018 due to training and physicals required to do so. Chloe completed all of the training and such whilst male, whilst benefiting from testosterone levels and the strength of a man, and without having to deal with the discrimination women in the army face based on their sex.

This reporting, to me, is absurd. It is taking away REAL achievements by women before they have even happened? What will the news say now? 'More' women join Chloe on the frontline? Or will it just blow over quietly as we have already had a 'woman' in the role?

In the rush to fall over ourselves to be seen as 'progressive' we seem to be going backwards in another area...women rights and womens achievements.

Honestly, does anyone actually see someone who trained for 4 years as a man, passed physicals as a man, and now decides to be a woman..stays in the same frontline position as before and still benefits from everything being a male offers (ie. physical strength required for such a role) as an achievement for women?

I could get behind this being lauded as the 'first transwoman' on the front line. But its not even that as transwomen have fought on the front line for years now? So where exactly is the news here? I find the entire thing so ****ing wrong. Good on Chloe and good on the army for allowing her to identify as the gender she decides without discrimination. But this is NOT a step forward for women in the military as it is being hailed as. The law changed to allow women to be able to do this, but...Women are not expected to complete training and examinations required to be on the frontline until 2018. A transwoman who was a man until recently remaining in the same post he trained for and passed examinations for..is in no way 'the first female on the front line'.

The news and such is taking the piss here.

Fantastic way to take away womens achievements, eh...

Chloe makes history as the first female infantry soldier since the Army began in 1660

History...made.

[Niamh.]

This is a touchy kind of a subject but yeah I agree that it's kind of unfair to women who were born women and wouldn't have the advantage of the male biology when doing their training

[Northern Monkey]

I don't even know where to start.I think i'll just not bother.This is infraction territory for me

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I don't even know where to start.I think i'll just not bother.This is infraction territory for me

Yes it is rather difficult to talk about anywhere as such conversations tend to end in bans. Personally I feel if we can talk about it all respectfully and without purposely insulting anyone then it should be fine. Not totally sure what the 'official' forum definition of transphobia is though (/bad mod) so I may have broken rules by pointing out biology tbh :S

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes it is rather difficult to talk about anywhere as such conversations tend to end in bans. Personally I feel if we can talk about it all respectfully and without purposely insulting anyone then it should be fine. Not totally sure what the 'official' forum definition of transphobia is though (/bad mod) so I may have broken rules by pointing out biology tbh :S

Honestly I'm not sure where the line is drawn either I think in the debates forum we should be allowed speak about things like this, whilst trying to be respectful at the same time?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Honestly I'm not sure where the line is drawn either I think in the debates forum we should be allowed speak about things like this, whilst trying to be respectful at the same time?

Pretty much yeah, might need to clarify with James though. All I know if deliberate misgendering is classed as transphobia..but we have only ever had to define the rule for BB previously.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...the-front-line

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/179920...ng-born-a-boy/

Sorry for the sun link but it seems the only rag willing to put the full story.

Basically 'Chloe' joined the army 4 years ago. Completed training and such as a man. Changed her name last month. Recently started taking hormones. Came 'out' as transgender when caught crossdressing. And is now celebrated as the first female on the front line.

Now, I know this is a touchy subject on here, but is this really right? What I mean by this is that the actual first woman on the frontline will have overcome huge obstacles to do so and is not expected until 2018 due to training and physicals required to do so. Chloe completed all of the training and such whilst male, whilst benefiting from testosterone levels and the strength of a man, and without having to deal with the discrimination women in the army face based on their sex.

This reporting, to me, is absurd. It is taking away REAL achievements by women before they have even happened? What will the news say now? 'More' women join Chloe on the frontline? Or will it just blow over quietly as we have already had a 'woman' in the role?

In the rush to fall over ourselves to be seen as 'progressive' we seem to be going backwards in another area...women rights and womens achievements.

Honestly, does anyone actually see someone who trained for 4 years as a man, passed physicals as a man, and now decides to be a woman..stays in the same frontline position as before and still benefits from everything being a male offers (ie. physical strength required for such a role) as an achievement for women?

I could get behind this being lauded as the 'first transwoman' on the front line. But its not even that as transwomen have fought on the front line for years now? So where exactly is the news here? I find the entire thing so ****ing wrong. Good on Chloe and good on the army for allowing her to identify as the gender she decides without discrimination. But this is NOT a step forward for women in the military as it is being hailed as. The law changed to allow women to be able to do this, but...Women are not expected to complete training and examinations required to be on the frontline until 2018. A transwoman who was a man until recently remaining in the same post he trained for and passed examinations for..is in no way 'the first female on the front line'.

The news and such is taking the piss here.

Fantastic way to take away womens achievements, eh...




History...made.

its all about pendering to womens rights, absolute joke

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Pretty much yeah, might need to clarify with James though. All I know if deliberate misgendering is classed as transphobia..but we have only ever had to define the rule for BB previously.

Yeah but that was people being disrespectful cos they didn't like the HM or whatever so that's understandably classed as transphobia I think

[Vicky.]

What on earth is pandering to womens rights about this article truth? Its the total opposite?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

its all about pendering to womens rights, absolute joke

What do you mean?

[jaxie]

Oh I must have missed where she wasn't born a woman. I thought you were posting about about a woman, woman going into a male employment/danger field at first. Then I read comments and went back to reread.

I struggle with the gender reassignment issues because I think it's extremely confusing. If you have had your penis removed but still have the internals of a man and physiology and strength I struggle to see how you can be a woman. If you have had a penis built but still have a womb I struggle to see how you are a man. It's complicated.

I don't think it's entirely fair for anyone/press to nail this as the achievement of a woman or the first woman to do the job.

However it's a great stride for the transexual community.

[Northern Monkey]

Ok.With respect.Imo.A man can never and will never be a woman no matter how much estrogen they inject or how much chopping and tucking they get.
This title should have been given to a woman who has earned it doing the same training as all her male peers.Just as the ridiculous idea of putting post op transsexuals competing against women in the olympics is unfair.So is this.
I'm thinking that this maybe just The Suns spin on it though to make a story.In 2018 they'll now have to have the headline 'First real woman on the frontline'.
Imo.

[smudgie]

Good for her, and really good for the forces.
About time we have real equality in this country. Equality for all.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Ok.With respect.Imo.A man can never and will never be a woman no matter how much estrogen they inject or how much chopping and tucking they get.
This title should have been given to a woman who has earned it doing the same training as all her male peers.Just as the ridiculous idea of putting post op transsexuals competing against women in the olympics is unfair.So is this.
I'm thinking that this maybe just The Suns spin on it though to make a story.In 2018 they'll now have to have the headline 'First real woman on the frontline'.
Imo.

Its not just the sun. BBC and a few others reporting the same. Its apparently some major breakthrough

Very bad reporting :S

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What do you mean?

im not allowed to expand the mods keep taking it down

[the truth]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Good for her, and really good for the forces.
About time we have real equality in this country. Equality for all.

what does equality mean in reality? some people are more equal than others and get special treatment, starting with mothers. as for real equal opportunities , the disabled the sick the elderly the vulnerable have been pushed to the back of the queue because womens rights and gay rights have taken a disproportionate share of the public money and media attention

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

im not allowed to expand the mods keep taking it down

I took down your offtopic post that seemed very much like spam. You can expand on why you think this is 'pandering to womens rights' given the person in receipt of this title is a trans woman (biologically male) though? Do you believe a man who changed his name a month ago is a woman and as such this is pandering to 'women'? Otherwise I can make no sense of your opinion?

I am guessing you saw woman/womens rights and saw red? The story is actually about womens achievements and such being taken away by men :S

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its not just the sun. BBC and a few others reporting the same. Its apparently some major breakthrough

Very bad reporting :S

Yes.Very bad 'media' spin.There is a definate clash in this country and the world infact between womens rights and trans rights.Two worlds(causes) have collided.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I took down your offtopic post that seemed very much like spam. You can expand on why you think this is 'pandering to womens rights' given the person in receipt of this title is a trans woman (biologically male) though? Do you believe a man who changed his name a month ago is a woman and as such this is pandering to 'women'? Otherwise I can make no sense of your opinion?

I am guessing you saw woman/womens rights and saw red? The story is actually about womens achievements and such being taken away by men :S

Thats your interpretation not mine, youre trying to control everything I say so theres no point me expanding

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

Thats your interpretation not mine, youre trying to control everything I say so theres no point me expanding

Im not trying to control anything you say. I deleted a post that had NOTHING to do with the OP. You then reposted acknowledging the OP which was fine.

But if you don't want to reply, thats up to you. I find it odd that you class a man being the first 'female' front line soldier as a 'pandering to women' thing though...very weird.

[VanessaFeltz.]

Originally Posted by the truth

what does equality mean in reality? some people are more equal than others and get special treatment, starting with mothers. as for real equal opportunities , the disabled the sick the elderly the vulnerable have been pushed to the back of the queue because womens rights and gay rights have taken a disproportionate share of the public money and media attention

how is some group getting media attention they need is a problem?

I think elder people should get the attention as well just because we are talking about an issue it doesnt mean other topic doesnt get anything

[the truth]

Originally Posted by MelihV

how is some group getting media attention they need is a problem?

I think elder people should get the attention as well just because we are talking about an issue it doesnt mean other topic doesnt get anything

theres only so much public money and public and media attention to go around, womens issues and gay issues get an absurdly disproportionate share

[VanessaFeltz.]

Originally Posted by the truth

theres only so much public money and public and media attention to go around, womens issues and gay issues get an absurdly disproportionate share

not really.

Media gets TONS of money so they can cover up every single topic, the reason they dont get much attention is that people are not speaking about this issue much.

I am supporting to give more attention to elder care because they have worked their entire life, they deserve to have their last years happy but that doesnt mean we have to take away from other movements that still need attention

[arista]

Not being Rude
but she looks like a Fella

[the truth]

Originally Posted by MelihV

not really.

Media gets TONS of money so they can cover up every single topic, the reason they dont get much attention is that people are not speaking about this issue much.

I am supporting to give more attention to elder care because they have worked their entire life, they deserve to have their last years happy but that doesnt mean we have to take away from other movements that still need attention

people are talking but it isnt salacious enough for the media to spend as much time talking about the neglect of the disabled the sick the elderly the oaps in care homes ...as Ive stated here before 25000 people a year die in nhs hospitals from undiagnosed blood clots, but you wont see people marching over that because its simply not sexy enough. oh but the ban trump from the uk campaign gets half a million. what an idiocracy