[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Maybe. I do feel feminists would fight a hell of a lot harder for something that effects women though. But apparently these days women are equal, if not moreso than poor men?

I shall remember this the next time some loser pinches my arse just because I happen to be wearing tight trousers..or assumes I am dumb because I do not possess a penis. Or talks over me. And so on. I should feel lucky I guess.

are you really saying only men talk over women and never the other way around? are you seriously saying if a man touches you , you dont have the legal right to report it to the police and get him arrested?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

men arent allowed to speak on these matters simple. if they do they lose their jobs and get smeared and and slandered. The culture is now obscenely biased towards women

Can you provide an example of a man speaking out against sexism and losing his job?

[the truth]

Despite what you have been told, in the western world today almost all legal and lethal sexual discrimination is against men.
Men are 97% of combat fatalities.
Men pay 97% of Alimony
Men make 94% of work suicides.
Men make up 93% of work fatalities.
Men make up 81% of all war deaths.
Men lose custody in 84% of divorces.
80% of all suicides are men.
77% of homicide victims are men.
89% of men will be the victim of at least one violent crime.
Men are over twice as victimised by strangers as women.
Men are 165% more likely to be convicted than women.
Men get 63% longer sentences than women for the same crime.
Court bias against men is at least 6 times bigger than racial bias.
Males are discriminated against in school and University.
Boys face vastly more corporal punishment than girls.
60-80% of the homeless are men.
Women's Cancers receive 15 times more funding than men's
At least 10% of fathers are victims of paternity fraud.
One third of all fathers in the USA have lost custody of children, most are expected to pay for this.
40-70% of domestic violence is against men however less than 1% of domestic violence shelter spaces are for men.

[Marsh.]

So that's a no then?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I agree with the OP. The violence ad especially is horrific. You speak of feminists though...getting ads banned and such. Can I ask one thing? Why do you expect feminists (who are mainly about womens rights) to stand up for men? In theory I agree that fighting for equality in general is the way forward, but surely there should be men standing up for themselves rather than expecting women to do it...if that makes sense? Why is there no male' equivalent of feminists? You could maybe start off such a movement, given your dedication to pointing out how males are disadvantaged?

Genuine feminists (i.e. liberal feminists and not radical ones, like most seem to assume all feminists are these days) support, fight and believe in the emancipation of women to achieve equality with men, and vice versa. It isn't about women surpassing men at all costs as some seem to believe, but more about bringing genuine equality to both sexes. This would thus - and does- actually include supporting issues which disproportionally affect men.

The OP is actually correct. There are very real issues that affect men more than women and they do need addressing, and in fact a lot of them stem from the socially constructed gender roles society has created (oh btw that reminds me, sorry I haven't got round to reading that link yet but I've been busy with moving back to uni - shall do it soon). That said, the truth seems to believe that discrimination and societal issues are a competition and exist in isolation of each other when that isn't the case at all (some reading on intersectionality would be useful). There are problems affecting men, women, homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual, disabled people, etc etc to varying degrees - and they all need addressing.

[the truth]

http://freedomdaily.com/sergeant-maj...men-in-combat/

[the truth]

THE REAL MONEY GAP.
Men earn 61.5% of all income but only account for 25% of domestic spending. Men only spend 40% of what they earn after tax. In contrast women make up 38.5% of all income but control 75% of domestic spending, women on average spend 90%

[the truth]

TAX & HEALTHCARE DISCRIMINATION
Men pay over 70% of income tax but the vast majority of public spending is on services for women. There is more money spent on breast cancer than lung cancer and prostate cancer combined, despite the fact that lung cancer alone has 3-4 times more fatalities than breast cancer. A man's chance of getting cancer is 44% and 23% of men will die from cancer, 38% of women get cancer and 19% die. Yet there is vastly more money spent on cancer for women, this is lethal discrimination. Women pay 60% less tax despite spending 300% more in domestic spending than men. Women also consume two third of public spending, there are 3 times the amount of gender specific health services for women than men despite the fact that for equal increases in health spending a man's life expectancy rate increases nearly twice as much as a woman's.

[the truth]

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
There are hundreds of surveys which shows women are as violent if not more violent than men in domestic violence cases. Men get arrested in 85% of all arrests but its estimated that Women are the perpetrators in most Domestic Violence cases. Most reciprocal violence is started by women and 70% of non reciprocal violence is perpetrated by women. Women however only get arrested in 15% of all DV arrests. This example of 572 different studies covering 371,600 people demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
More men than women were victims of intimate partner physical violence and over 40% of severe physical violence was directed at men. http://www.batteredmen.com/NISVS.htm
Despite this though,99.3% of DV shelter spaces are for women and even men who report violence against them by women are arrested far more often than the woman who is attacking them

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

THE REAL MONEY GAP.
Men earn 61.5% of all income but only account for 25% of domestic spending. Men only spend 40% of what they earn after tax. In contrast women make up 38.5% of all income but control 75% of domestic spending, women on average spend 90%

Is the obvious answer to this not...men more often work while women stay home with the kids and run the household...thus take care of bills and shopping and such? In MOST cases. That also accounts for in divorce proceedings women getting (more often than not) residency while men have visitation rights.

I may well be missing something though

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

THE REAL MONEY GAP.
Men earn 61.5% of all income but only account for 25% of domestic spending. Men only spend 40% of what they earn after tax. In contrast women make up 38.5% of all income but control 75% of domestic spending, women on average spend 90%

You realise domestic spending means what is spent on the household/for the family? So it's not women going spending men's money on shoes. But her still having the responsibility to go and get the food in, pay the bills for the family including the men.

Think about things.

[Vicky.]

I disagree with all forms of violence. However the DV violence stats you quote seem to miss out that

Domestic abuse: Will affect 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men in their lifetime. Leads to, on average, two women being murdered each week and 30 men per year.

And again, womens refuges and such are set up by women for women. There is nothing stopping people opening mens DV refuges? Also do your percentages include hostels that say they are primarily for women, but do accept men? We have a local place that is called a 'womens refuge' but accept anyone who is a victim of DV...just wodnering if this would be classed under only female or not?

I find the percentages astronomically high though for violence against men if those are correct. However the 2 per week v 30 per year kind of says...when men are violent the woman comes off a lot worse off. Not that that makes any of it any better/worse though

Side note, unless ONS have released new figures, seems your stats are wrong? https://www.theguardian.com/society/...s-figures-show

Still a ridiculously high amount of DV in general though. And it is surprising that so much of it is against men.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

are you really saying only men talk over women and never the other way around? are you seriously saying if a man touches you , you dont have the legal right to report it to the police and get him arrested?

LOL yeah, I would be taken really seriously for reporting a butt pinch to the police? And no, of course I am not saying only men talk over women and never the other way around...but it happens more (ina professional environment) that men speak over women, and men are more listened to than women simply for being men. About technical stuff women can never know apparently as they are sweet little flowers that should be in the kitchen, not working in a 'mans environment'. Hell, last year I was in the apple shop and saw some guy umming and ahhing about some ridiculously pricey tablet he was wanting and asked for help, a woman came over and he said he wanted someone who 'actually knows what they are talking about' and beckoned a bloke over, who told the guy that the woman was actually best qualified and would be better to answer. That was quite funny to witness..and its definitely not the only instance of this kind of thing I have seen

Originally Posted by Jack_

Genuine feminists (i.e. liberal feminists and not radical ones, like most seem to assume all feminists are these days) support, fight and believe in the emancipation of women to achieve equality with men, and vice versa. It isn't about women surpassing men at all costs as some seem to believe, but more about bringing genuine equality to both sexes. This would thus - and does- actually include supporting issues which disproportionally affect men.

The OP is actually correct. There are very real issues that affect men more than women and they do need addressing, and in fact a lot of them stem from the socially constructed gender roles society has created (oh btw that reminds me, sorry I haven't got round to reading that link yet but I've been busy with moving back to uni - shall do it soon). That said, the truth seems to believe that discrimination and societal issues are a competition and exist in isolation of each other when that isn't the case at all (some reading on intersectionality would be useful). There are problems affecting men, women, homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual, disabled people, etc etc to varying degrees - and they all need addressing.

Indeed.

About feminism...its not something I really know anything about, always just assumed that feminism was about fighting for womens rights tbh. So I bow to your superior knowledge

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

The way the OP worded it I expected a wife to be beating her husband within an inch of his life.

The Bonmarche ad is bloody awful but "violence against men" please. If you want to be taken seriously try finding some actual examples instead of this nitpicking crap.

And the second example is stereotypical to both sexes. The man burping, lazy and childish. The woman a harridan, constantly cleaning and hard done by. It works both ways.

Stop trying to make "Middle Class White Straight Male Lives Matter" happen.

They do matter

[the truth]

Government Sponsored Sexism
1) Real sexism is almost no shelters for male victims of domestic violence.
2) Real sexism is men getting harsher punishments for the same crime.
3) Real sexism is countries with compulsorily military service for men.
4) Real sexism, courts that takes children from fathers based on gender.
5) Men cannot even vote or get citizenship without enrolling for the draft.
6) Real sexism is numerous government departments dealing with women's issues but none dealing with men's issues.
7) Male infant circumcision/genital mutilation is legal and performed widely and even completely socially accepted but female genital mutilation is not.
8) A young boy raped by a woman can be forced to pay child support to his rapist if she gets pregnant, that's real sexism.
9) Many countries do not even recognize female on male rape. It can maximally only amount to “sexual assault” that's real sexism.
10) Real sexism is having no special laws like VAWA to protect men, even though men are the majority of victims of violent crime.
11) There are drives to fill quotas for women for the high paid roles but not in the dangerous jobs dominated by men, thats real sexism.
12) In the army, police, fire service or any other position women have to meet much lower physical standards than men.
13) Real sexism is services for men only given a fraction of the funds that services for women are given at a government and a social level.
14) For the same crime, irrespective of the gender of the offender, the perpetrator gets more punishment if the victim is female rather than male.
15) Most divorce laws are skewed against men, men can lose half his properly, money and children to a woman who decides to leave him.
He is expected to pay for this betrayal, especially if he has already provided for and supported her, this is real sexism

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

LOL yeah, I would be taken really seriously for reporting a butt pinch to the police? And no, of course I am not saying only men talk over women and never the other way around...but it happens more (ina professional environment) that men speak over women, and men are more listened to than women simply for being men. About technical stuff women can never know apparently as they are sweet little flowers that should be in the kitchen, not working in a 'mans environment'. Hell, last year I was in the apple shop and saw some guy umming and ahhing about some ridiculously pricey tablet he was wanting and asked for help, a woman came over and he said he wanted someone who 'actually knows what they are talking about' and beckoned a bloke over, who told the guy that the woman was actually best qualified and would be better to answer. That was quite funny to witness..and its definitely not the only instance of this kind of thing I have seen



Indeed.

About feminism...its not something I really know anything about, always just assumed that feminism was about fighting for womens rights tbh. So I bow to your superior knowledge

Ive heard infinitely more sexist comments from women about men in the wokplace...ive heard women almost always be cruder and lewder, ive heard all men are assh^oles and such like and women claim no man can do the job theyre doing and endless other systematic male hate passive aggressive sexist drivel that is allowed to pass. the vast majority of women working in the banking call centres I used to work would argue with customers all day and night and cut the phones off and all sorts. taking the vast amount of calls and complaints as personal sleights against them personally. when all it was in reality was people desperate to speak to their bank account managers and desperate to get funds. empathy for customers didnt exist at that call centre, the staff weer far more concerned with their own feelings

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

Government Sponsored Sexism
1) Real sexism is almost no shelters for male victims of domestic violence.
2) Real sexism is men getting harsher punishments for the same crime.
3) Real sexism is countries with compulsorily military service for men.
4) Real sexism, courts that takes children from fathers based on gender.
5) Men cannot even vote or get citizenship without enrolling for the draft.
6) Real sexism is numerous government departments dealing with women's issues but none dealing with men's issues.
7) Male infant circumcision/genital mutilation is legal and performed widely and even completely socially accepted but female genital mutilation is not.
8) A young boy raped by a woman can be forced to pay child support to his rapist if she gets pregnant, that's real sexism.
9) Many countries do not even recognize female on male rape. It can maximally only amount to “sexual assault” that's real sexism.
10) Real sexism is having no special laws like VAWA to protect men, even though men are the majority of victims of violent crime.
11) There are drives to fill quotas for women for the high paid roles but not in the dangerous jobs dominated by men, thats real sexism.
12) In the army, police, fire service or any other position women have to meet much lower physical standards than men.
13) Real sexism is services for men only given a fraction of the funds that services for women are given at a government and a social level.
14) For the same crime, irrespective of the gender of the offender, the perpetrator gets more punishment if the victim is female rather than male.
15) Most divorce laws are skewed against men, men can lose half his properly, money and children to a woman who decides to leave him.
He is expected to pay for this betrayal, especially if he has already provided for and supported her, this is real sexism

Oh god..I had a HUGE argument about this the other day. So many people piled on me saying its a religious thing so fine and its medically beneficial and such. I also discovered ( ) that in some circles the done thing is (or was) to
get the person performing the circumcision to suck the blood from the babies penis...

[Ammi]

...that Bonmarche ad is just awful...I've seen a few social experiment type vids and the complete difference in reactions from the general public, when a female is 'the victim' in aggressive situations and many will help/intervene...as opposed to when a female is being aggressive to a male and there is sometimes laughter at that situation../hahahaha, he must have been a naughty boy then, type thing......

[Northern Monkey]

Well the test is that somebody should make the same ad but with men as the aggressors instead of the victims and see how long it lasts.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Well the test is that somebody should make the same ad but with men as the aggressors instead of the victims and see how long it lasts.

...on a positive though, at least males don't have Bonmarche shops/clothes...(ooops, I hope there are no Bonmarche fans on the forum...)...

[Northern Monkey]

I had women grab my balls when i've been out on many occasions.Women are just as bad if not worse because they can get away with it.If i had'nt kind of enjoyed it i might have got all emotional

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I agree with the Truth.If we are going to allow violence against men in advertising then we need more violence against women too.Or better still no violence against anyone.There's a novel idea

Yes, I think this is the right answer

[Livia]

Up till around fifty-odd years ago, sexism against women in advertising wasn't only the norm, it was de rigueur. It's taken a long time for women to gain some kind of equality... what a shame that some women have gone on to use that equality to do to men what men did to women for centuries. Respect - both ways - it's the only answer.

[LeatherTrumpet]

These shoes are awful

Spoiler:

[Amy Jade]

The advert is crap but you'd swear she was knifing men with the reaction on here.

One guy trips over, another she's too busy talking to notice so let's a door swing on him and the rest is her knocking men haphazardly - if anything she looks a twat for being so interested in clothes she's being ignorant and you feel bad for the men.