[kirklancaster]

Miley Cyrus

Trump said:

"...And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."

"Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

Miley said:

“Maybe it’s because of the villainous vibes that surround power and the poor examples of how too many leaders abuse it. Yes, that’s for Donald Trump.”

Disgusting! Good old Miley.

The very IDEA that some avaricious, fame-desperate women without morals will FREELY allow perverts to grope them and grab their pussies and breasts and private parts. It's 'sexual assault' whether those women were complicit or not.

OOPS Miley:

FOOTAGE HAS EMERGED OF MILEY CYRUS ALLOWING FANS TO GROPE HER PUSSY AND BREASTS DURING HER PERFORMANCE ON STAGE IN HER 2014 WRECKING BALL TOUR.

The singer was performing onstage during her Wrecking Ball tour in 2014 wearing a figure hugging silver thong leotard which gave her fans a very intimate view.

She allowed fans to grope her while she performed onstage before she struts off and performs the rest of her song.

NEXT WITNESS!

[Kizzy]

He was wrong, what he said was wrong, it's not only Miley Cyrus a woman you appear to infer has no right to comment due to a stage performance who thinks this....But millions across the free world, are you going to attempt to discredit them all?

[Ammi]

...'she allowed' herself to be touched by her fans, she invited it if that's what she did in her Wrecking Ball tour...sexual assault is all about non-consensual intimate touching ...there is no comparison at all to 'I don't even wait, I just grab them..'..non whatsoever because it's all about inferring non-consent in what he said he practised with females because he was a star...there is just no explanation that would make that a right thing to say and not very worrying....

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He was wrong, what he said was wrong, it's not only Miley Cyrus a woman you appear to infer has no right to comment due to a stage performance who thinks this....But millions across the free world, are you going to attempt to discredit them all?

WHERE have I ever STATED that he was not wrong?

WHERE have I ever STATED that what he said was not wrong?

If you are going to continually CRITICALLY respond to my posts LEARN to READ - please.

Neither in this post nor in any others have I defended TRUMP, and I have made that clear enough in many related posts.

What I will not do though, is swallow the B.S bile which is ranged against Trump by those who purely HATE him, then regurgitate it across THIS or other forums - as some do - because it goes against my sense of justice and fair play.

I see a GREAT contradiction in your VIEWPOINTS in TRUMP BASHING and CORBYN BASHING.

I would gladly extend this same expose and condemnation of Corbyn's detractors if I could find any - after the GREATEST scrutiny - that WERE NOT JUSTIFIED.

Unfortunately, I cannot.

As to your question; 'am' I 'going to 'discredit them all' - NO - only the fake ones who are jumping on a bandwagon to win popularity, or, indeed those who have claimed 'historical sexual assault' against Trump who are PATENTLY lying.

Happy now that I have cleared this all up for you?

[Withano]

Donald Trump bragged about groping other women, Miley Cyrus danced at the end of the stage towards other people who already had their hands in the air and hopefully didnt intend on groping her. The whole thing lasted less than three seconds.

This is painfully incomparable. You could compare Donald to one of the people in the crowd If you really wanted to push an agenda.

There is no contradiction between a woman who doesnt like men groping unwilling women simply because she danced near people at a concert.

Its kinda of like me saying i dont like men who slap people and then you showing a video of a someone putting their hand on my face and calling it a contradiction

What a ****ing stupid thread. I know you keep saying you dont care for Trump, its difficult to believe you when you twisted a scene in to whatever this is though.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...'she allowed' herself to be touched by her fans, she invited it if that's what she did in her Wrecking Ball tour...sexual assault is all about non-consensual intimate touching ...there is no comparison at all to 'I don't even wait, I just grab them..'..non whatsoever because it's all about inferring non-consent in what he said he practised with females because he was a star...there is just no explanation that would make that a right thing to say and not very worrying....

All of this.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...'she allowed' herself to be touched by her fans, she invited it if that's what she did in her Wrecking Ball tour...sexual assault is all about non-consensual intimate touching ...there is no comparison at all to 'I don't even wait, I just grab them..'..non whatsoever because it's all about inferring non-consent in what he said he practised with females because he was a star...there is just no explanation that would make that a right thing to say and not very worrying....

I am referring SPECIFICALLY to those women who ALLOWED Trump to grope them Ammi. If Cyrus ALLOWING her fans to grope her does not constitute 'sexual assault', then how does certain women who have ALLOWED Trump to grope them constitute 'sexual assault'?

I am also pointing out the hypocrisy of a powerful and wealthy celebrity who lambastes another powerful and wealthy celebrity for 'abusing their power' - groping of certain women inclusive - who then uses her power to ALLOW her private parts to be groped.

SHE had the POWER NOT to allow this very public groping. She chose not to, because, in my opinion - just like her very public 'twerking' and other unsavoury publicity-mindful stunts - they are keeping her in the limelight and keeping the dollars rolling in.

There is, therefore, a very real parallel here - in that certain women ALLOWED Trump to grope them in the hopes of fame and fortune ensuing, and Miley Cyrus allows fans to grope her because she knows that will prolong her notoriety and preserve her fame and fortune.

My post have NOTHING whatsoever to do with whether Trump is a sexual predator or misogynist or not - I have already stated that he is on other threads - but everything to do with fairness and justice, what is right and wrong - in my opinion.

And in my opinion, moral-less, money hungry, fame *****s such as Miley Cyrus, do not make credible witnesses on the questions of abuse of power or morality.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Withano

Donald Trump bragged about groping other women, Miley Cyrus danced at the end of the stage towards other people who already had their hands in the air and hopefully didnt intend on groping her. The whole thing lasted less than three seconds.

This is painfully incomparable. You could compare Donald to one of the people in the crowd If you really wanted to push an agenda.

There is no contradiction between a woman who doesnt like men groping unwilling women simply because she danced near people at a concert.

Its kinda of like me saying i dont like men who slap people and then you showing a video of a someone putting their hand on my face and calling it a contradiction

What a ****ing stupid thread. I know you keep saying you dont care for Trump, its difficult to believe you when you twisted a scene in to whatever this is though.

You may regard it as a 'stupid thread, as may some others - because it does not dovetail neatly into your 'all or nothing' 'Black or White' distorted view of the world.

Some others on here may disagree with you.

Incidentally - how do you KNOW that Trump's alleged 'groping' did not also last 3 seconds or even less?

Your interpretation of that video is totally denialist if you think that 'people had their hands in the air and Miley's pussy merely came into accidental contact with them' if that is what you are trying to claim.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You may regard it as a 'stupid thread, as may some others - because it does not dovetail neatly into your 'all or nothing' 'Black or White' distorted view of the world.

Some others on here may disagree with you.

Right, but this really is nothing. You're disregarding a womans thought on sexual assault (disgusting by the way, not the point im making but still grim of you) simply because there is three seconds of footage of her dancing into a crowd of hands at her concert. This is the biggest piece of nothing i've ever read.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Incidentally - how do you KNOW that Trump's alleged 'groping' did not also last 3 seconds or even less?

Your interpretation of that video is totally denialist if you think that 'people had their hands in the air and Miley's pussy merely came into accidental contact with them' if that is what you are trying to claim.

Can you google sexual assault, learn what it is and notice the difference here.

And none of us have any evidence to show that the bottom paragraph isnt completely true.

That isnt even where the pussy is ffs but the screenshot is the closest anyone got to it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am referring SPECIFICALLY to those women who ALLOWED Trump to grope them Ammi. If Cyrus ALLOWING her fans to grope her does not constitute 'sexual assault', then how does certain women who have ALLOWED Trump to grope them constitute 'sexual assault'?

I am also pointing out the hypocrisy of a powerful and wealthy celebrity who lambastes another powerful and wealthy celebrity for 'abusing their power' - groping of certain women inclusive - who then uses her power to ALLOW her private parts to be groped.

SHE had the POWER NOT to allow this very public groping. She chose not to, because, in my opinion - just like her very public 'twerking' and other unsavoury publicity-mindful stunts - they are keeping her in the limelight and keeping the dollars rolling in.

There is, therefore, a very real parallel here - in that certain women ALLOWED Trump to grope them in the hopes of fame and fortune ensuing, and Miley Cyrus allows fans to grope her because she knows that will prolong her notoriety and preserve her fame and fortune.

My post have NOTHING whatsoever to do with whether Trump is a sexual predator or misogynist or not - I have already stated that he is on other threads - but everything to do with fairness and justice, what is right and wrong - in my opinion.

And in my opinion, moral-less, money hungry, fame *****s such as Miley Cyrus, do not make credible witnesses on the questions of abuse of power or morality.

..I'm sorry Kirk but it does feel a little like your 'fair and justice' is being quite selective with this and this thread about Miley...from the beginning of Trump time, music artist have used 'sexual' in their live performances...Elvis Presley for instance with his pelvic moves, which were a big part of who he was as an artist as well...and Miley's moves have become part of her as an artist...sexual is a big part of the music as well with many artists and always has been since the good old rock n roll days...but you're using words like unsavoury and questioning that she has a moral compass to criticise Donald Trump who was saying that his practise with females was sexual basically...that doesn't seem being fair and just to me, it does seem very judgemental of her../her live act etc...which is fine as well if it's how you feel but do you not see...it's a bit of a selective fair and just....anyone who doesn't practice sexual assault or has ever done is a 'credible witness' and so far as I'm aware, Miley hasn't....she has every right to question 'morality'....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

WHERE have I ever STATED that he was not wrong?

WHERE have I ever STATED that what he said was not wrong?

If you are going to continually CRITICALLY respond to my posts LEARN to READ - please.

Neither in this post nor in any others have I defended TRUMP, and I have made that clear enough in many related posts.

What I will not do though, is swallow the B.S bile which is ranged against Trump by those who purely HATE him, then regurgitate it across THIS or other forums - as some do - because it goes against my sense of justice and fair play.

I see a GREAT contradiction in your VIEWPOINTS in TRUMP BASHING and CORBYN BASHING.

I would gladly extend this same expose and condemnation of Corbyn's detractors if I could find any - after the GREATEST scrutiny - that WERE NOT JUSTIFIED.

Unfortunately, I cannot.

As to your question; 'am' I 'going to 'discredit them all' - NO - only the fake ones who are jumping on a bandwagon to win popularity, or, indeed those who have claimed 'historical sexual assault' against Trump who are PATENTLY lying.

Happy now that I have cleared this all up for you?

Has Corbyn been accused of pussy grabbing now?... :/

As you've started using language like 'moral-less fame ******' to describe those who disagree with his comments I'll leave it here.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I'm sorry Kirk but it does feel a little like your 'fair and justice' is being quite selective with this and this thread about Miley...from the beginning of Trump time, music artist have used 'sexual' in their live performances...Elvis Presley for instance with his pelvic moves, which were a big part of who he was as an artist as well...and Miley's moves have become part of her as an artist...sexual is a big part of the music as well with many artists and always has been since the good old rock n roll days...but you're using words like unsavoury and questioning that she has a moral compass to criticise Donald Trump who was saying that his practise with females was sexual basically...that doesn't seem being fair and just to me, it does seem very judgemental of her../her live act etc...which is fine as well if it's how you feel but do you not see...it's a bit of a selective fair and just....anyone who doesn't practice sexual assault or has ever done is a 'credible witness' and so far as I'm aware, Miley hasn't....she has every right to question 'morality'....

I am an Elvis fan Ammi, and I have never seen one report or any footage showing Elvis allowing any fan to grope his manhood - and to me, THAT is EXACTLY what Miley Cyrus is doing in this clip.

Miley Cyrus has a huge amount of influence among the young people of the world, and all I am saying is that - judging by her very public conduct - she is less than qualified to be commenting upon anyone else's morals, especially from motives of 'Jump On The Bandwagon' 'Popularity Courting' for personal gain, as I firmly believe that she is.

By the way, I neither like or dislike her as an artiste.

My grouse is squarely on the unfairness of 'Witch Hunts' for the wrong reasons or lies, because there is enough to 'Hang' Trump for without suchlike.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Has Corbyn been accused of pussy grabbing now?... :/

As you've started using language like 'moral-less fame ******' to describe those who disagree with his comments I'll leave it here.

What ARE you talking about? Do you even KNOW yourself?

I have NEVER even alluded to this stupid remark.

[Withano]

Even in your eyes Miley let herself be groped for 3 seconds (that isnt what happened but for arguments sake, lets say it is). That is multitudes different to any person groping an unwilling person for three seconds (more likely, a lot longer than this, but for arguments sake).

That is the complete difference of consent and assault. Youve disregarded Mileys thoughts on assault because youve seen her give consent.

This thread is completely grim. Almost perpetuating rape culture and sounding like a meninist with an agenda.

"Mileys not allowed to dislike assault cos heres three secs of her fans with their hands on her body" get out.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am an Elvis fan Ammi, and I have never seen one report or any footage showing Elvis allowing any fan to grope his manhood - and to me, THAT is EXACTLY what Miley Cyrus is doing in this clip.

Miley Cyrus has a huge amount of influence among the young people of the world, and all I am saying is that - judging by her very public conduct - she is less than qualified to be commenting upon anyone else's morals, especially from motives of 'Jump On The Bandwagon' 'Popularity Courting' for personal gain, as I firmly believe that she is.

By the way, I neither like or dislike her as an artiste.

My grouse is squarely on the unfairness of 'Witch Hunts' for the wrong reasons or lies, because there is enough to 'Hang' Trump for without suchlike.

....it's still very much part of how sexual is interpreted in music live performances as well though Kirk...it doesn't have to directly equate to be something that through time (some and many artists) have and have had as part of their live acts but much like an actor when they play characters, it doesn't reflect anything about them morally...I know some Miley fans...( I actually only know a few Miley fans that I've spoken to before about her in the past...)...who love her/her music/her style/her performances etc but don't take any 'moral influence' in their lives from her whatsoever...no one is witch-hunting Donald Trump, Kirk...his reference to sexual assault being a code of his practice wasn't in the context of any type of character or performance or entertainment etc...it's his words, his character for saying those words and quite revealing of him as a person 'of power'...when he's going for the most powerful job in the world, this is all him...no one needs to witch hunt...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Withano

Even in your eyes Miley let herself be groped for 3 seconds (that isnt what happened but for arguments sake, lets say it is). That is multitudes different to any person groping an unwilling person for three seconds (more likely, a lot longer than this, but for arguments sake).

That is the complete difference of consent and assault. Youve disregarded Mileys thoughts on assault because youve seen her give consent.

This thread is completely grim. Almost perpetuating rape culture and sounding like a meninist with an agenda.

"Mileys not allowed to dislike assault cos heres three secs of her fans with their hands on her body" get out.

I am grossly offended by your uncalled for allegations that this thread perpetuates 'rape culture' AND your allusions that I am some 'menalist with an agenda' because there is NOTHING which I have written that would justify such disgusting comments.

You see Withano - your posts seem full of anger, perhaps because you detest Trump with a vengeance, but with blind hatred, objectivity is all too often lost.

You are NOT really addressing the points which I am ACTUALLY making in my posts, but more rather addressing what you THINK I am saying in my posts, and I believe that is because you have lost emotional detachment because of the subject matter.

You need to calm down, read and absorb what I am saying, and not allow your own prejudices to superimpose what you angrily feel I am saying onto my actual words.

I have NEVER posted to court popularity, only posted what I believe, and I have all too often been unfairly 'hung, drawn, and quartered' on here as a result.

But I am a great believer in ALL aspects of Freedom - Freedom Of Speech AND Freedom of Choice being two very important types.

I have the Freedom of Speech to open a thread on any subject I want to, and you have The Freedom of Choice NOT to subscribe to it.

I suggest Withano, if this thread upsets you so much, and you deem it so "fecking stupid" and "grim", then do not subscribe to it.

[Ammi]

...last post..(I think.....)...Miley has every right to make comment in as much as any of us do or any other celebrity does...as Robert De Niro, Tom Hanks, Arnold Schwarzenegger or anyone else who have been offended and worried by what he said....we don't know anyone's moral compass more than anyone else's and a stage act/a persona is no indication at all...it's simply that/a stage act..and it's invited of anything it involves...Donald Trump showed no respect, no consideration for females in what he said...he inferred an abuse of power that he saw as a 'perk'....he hasn't denied that, those are his words and how he said those words....how he's excused that offence and disregard of females he showed though...?....by offending males as well in inferring it was just typical 'male locker room talk'....he offends my granddad, my father, my brothers, my husband, my sons and I would think that Withano's offence and stance on this is because he offends him as well...and that was his 'excuse' to make it all seem less worrying....that we're to be assured and feel fine because many males find sexual assault a source of amusement while having their 'mentalk'....as Tom Hanks said, he offends everyone whether male or female and that's all he could think of to 'excuse/explain'...

[Ammi]

..I was going to edited that just to say that Miley is a young American voting female and that's all she is in her entitlement to her views on Trump's morality...nothing else is relevant...anyways I didn't do the edit because I just had a little mini power cut and lost connection...darn you Kizzy, you're a witch.....

[Tom4784]

The difference between Miley Cyrus' tours and Trump's victims are consent.I pity anyone who can't tell the difference between these two cases or think that Miley's antics on tour somehow diminishes her opinion.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...last post..(I think.....)...Miley has every right to make comment in as much as any of us do or any other celebrity does...as Robert De Niro, Tom Hanks, Arnold Schwarzenegger or anyone else who have been offended and worried by what he said....we don't know anyone's moral compass more than anyone else's and a stage act/a persona is no indication at all...it's simply that/a stage act..and it's invited of anything it involves...Donald Trump showed no respect, no consideration for females in what he said...he inferred an abuse of power that he saw as a 'perk'....he hasn't denied that, those are his words and how he said those words....how he's excused that offence and disregard of females he showed though...?....by offending males as well in inferring it was just typical 'male locker room talk'....he offends my granddad, my father, my brothers, my husband, my sons and I would think that Withano's offence and stance on this is because he offends him as well...and that was his 'excuse' to make it all seem less worrying....that we're to be assured and feel fine because many males find sexual assault a source of amusement while having their 'mentalk'....as Tom Hanks said, he offends everyone whether male or female and that's all he could think of to 'excuse/explain'...

Two things Ammi - I do not disagree with any of which you write about Trump. My post was not debating the rights and wrongs of Trump being any of those things, my post is about the credibility and motives of just SOME of those who are jumping onto the 'anti-Trump' bandwagon.

Secondly, I respect your opinion on Miley Cyrus, but I can never agree with it.

Her 'twerking' and a lot of her other calculated displays and comments, have been executed OUTSIDE of any stage performance, but always well publicised because of the notoriety value, and I cannot recall any other celebrity who has spoken out about Trump ever having indulged in similar 'self-promotional' morally questionable behaviour.

I firmly believe that, unlike De Niro, Tom Hanks et al, Cyrus is cynically seizing yet another opportunity to 'jump on a bandwagon' for her own gain - making herself more popular to raise her 'Marquee Value' for example.

Incidentally, being an 'offended male' does not mitigate or excuse Withano's offensive comments in respect of myself.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The difference between Miley Cyrus' tours and Trump's victims are consent.I pity anyone who can't tell the difference between these two cases or think that Miley's antics on tour somehow diminishes her opinion.

Consent? How many times do I have to state in the Queen's English, that I am referring SPECIFICALLY and ONLY, to those women who ALLOWED Trump to grope them?

There is no need to pity me then, because I CAN most certainly tell the difference between those two cases - AND, just as importantly, I can see a parallel between those two cases.

Finally, I do not base my opinion solely upon just 'Miley's antics on tour' but also on her other well publicised antics off tour.

And yes - based upon what I BELIEVE and what I have a RIGHT to believe, I do think Miley's 'antics' diminishes her opinion and her credibility, besides giving me cause to question her motives - which WAS really the point of my post.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I was going to edited that just to say that Miley is a young American voting female and that's all she is in her entitlement to her views on Trump's morality...nothing else is relevant...anyways I didn't do the edit because I just had a little mini power cut and lost connection...darn you Kizzy, you're a witch.....

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Consent? How many times do I have to state in the Queen's English, that I am referring SPECIFICALLY and ONLY, to those women who ALLOWED Trump to grope them?

There is no need to pity me then, because I CAN most certainly tell the difference between those two cases - AND, just as importantly, I can see a parallel between those two cases.

Finally, I do not base my opinion solely upon just 'Miley's antics on tour' but also on her other well publicised antics off tour.

And yes - based upon what I BELIEVE and what I have a RIGHT to believe, I do think Miley's 'antics' diminishes her opinion and her credibility, besides giving me cause to question her motives - which WAS really the point of my post.

Calm down Kirk, no reason to get irate.

Most of your post is (not so subtly) suggesting that Trump's victims are fame hungry and complicit in his actions, in the words of LT, where's your proof of this? It sounds like victim blaming to me.

Your thoughts on Miley are problematic. Is the opinion of any woman that dares to embrace their own sexuality somehow less valid because of it? Does this extend to men too or is it just women?

Her antics do not make her opinion less valid as the quote you used was as follows.

'“Maybe it’s because of the villainous vibes that surround power and the poor examples of how too many leaders abuse it. Yes, that’s for Donald Trump.”'

She's talking about people in power abusing their positions so how does the fact that she CONSENTED to people touching her two years ago discredit that opinion? It doesn't make much sense at all.

The victims of Donald Trump didn't consent to his alleged abuse so how is Miley speaking out about it in anyway hypocritical just because she embraces her own sexuality? It's just downright silly.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Two things Ammi - I do not disagree with any of which you write about Trump. My post was not debating the rights and wrongs of Trump being any of those things, my post is about the credibility and motives of just SOME of those who are jumping onto the 'anti-Trump' bandwagon.

Secondly, I respect your opinion on Miley Cyrus, but I can never agree with it.

Her 'twerking' and a lot of her other calculated displays and comments, have been executed OUTSIDE of any stage performance, but always well publicised because of the notoriety value, and I cannot recall any other celebrity who has spoken out about Trump ever having indulged in similar 'self-promotional' morally questionable behaviour.

I firmly believe that, unlike De Niro, Tom Hanks et al, Cyrus is cynically seizing yet another opportunity to 'jump on a bandwagon' for her own gain - making herself more popular to raise her 'Marquee Value' for example.

Incidentally, being an 'offended male' does not mitigate or excuse Withano's offensive comments in respect of myself.

...I guess that I just don't find sexual in music performances as anything that would question a moral compass off the stage...she may have had controversy in other areas of her life I know but she's very young and tried to find her own adult identity apart from her dad...but I would still feel that wouldn't be a question on her morals, but more had some confusing times in life...if she was jumping on a bandwagon, she's only able to do so because Trump has enabled her to by what he said.....he made the bandwagon for her to be able to jump on and anyone else who may feel the need for a wagon ride...I think the thought process as well could be that if those with 'lesser moral compasses' find Trump offensive ..that's really just how offensive and worrying he is../his conversation was...even Miley was offended for goodness sake.....