[Kizzy]

Yeah... thanks for working all your lives now could you just please die? Thanx.

'Theresa May is under intense pressure from senior doctors and a powerful cross-party alliance of politicians to avert a collapse in care for the elderly, as shocking new figures show the system close to meltdown.

The medical profession, together with Tory, Labour and Liberal Democrat leaders in local government, have demanded a funding U-turn, warning that the safety of millions of elderly people is at risk because of an acute financial crisis completely overlooked in chancellor Philip Hammond’s autumn statement.

New figures obtained by the Observer show that 77 of the 152 local authorities responsible for providing care for the elderly have seen at least one residential and nursing care provider close in the last six months, because cuts to council budgets meant there were insufficient funds to run adequate services.

In 48 councils, at least one company that provides care for the elderly in their own homes has ceased trading over the same period, placing councils under sudden and huge pressure to find alternative provision.

In addition, 59 councils have had to find new care arrangements after contracts were handed back by a provider who decided that they were unable to make ends meet on the money that councils were able to pay them.'

Shocking, and after this weeks handouts for buck house and other stately homes.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...se-to-collapse

[jennyjuniper]

Many years ago I worked as a cook in a care home for the elderly and they were being ripped off then!! This was in the 1980's and they were paying 250 pounds a week, which was a lot of money then. They received very basic care and the food budget that I had to work with was ridiculous. The butcher delivered the weekly meat order every Monday and the owner of the home took half for herself, husband and two children. With the other half I had to feed 14 residents and two staff.
It's nothing new, this ripping off and abuse of the elderly and it's time it stopped. Local councils and private companies try to run their 'care' facilities as cheaply as possible and sometimes this results in people being hired who are not suitable for the job, or lack of care and sustenance or both.
However after saying all that, the responsibility of our elderly lies with us. Our parents took care of us when we needed it and it's up to us to care for them when they can no longer do it for themselves.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

Many years ago I worked as a cook in a care home for the elderly and they were being ripped off then!! This was in the 1980's and they were paying 250 pounds a week, which was a lot of money then. They received very basic care and the food budget that I had to work with was ridiculous. The butcher delivered the weekly meat order every Monday and the owner of the home took half for herself, husband and two children. With the other half I had to feed 14 residents and two staff.
It's nothing new, this ripping off and abuse of the elderly and it's time it stopped. Local councils and private companies try to run their 'care' facilities as cheaply as possible and sometimes this results in people being hired who are not suitable for the job, or lack of care and sustenance or both.
However after saying all that, the responsibility of our elderly lies with us. Our parents took care of us when we needed it and it's up to us to care for them when they can no longer do it for themselves.

Agree with that it's just too easy to hand over responsibility to the state, and especially now when it is run so badly, that said money should be available for our elderly, they have contributed all their lives, and it might seem a long way off but we will all get there eventually so it's in everyone's interest to have a sustainable guaranteed social care fund. Buck House, Houses of Parliament, foreign aid, HSE2, all these should divert cash towards this crisis,

[Nicky91]

i really don't like Theresa May anymore, i can say that can i

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

Many years ago I worked as a cook in a care home for the elderly and they were being ripped off then!! This was in the 1980's and they were paying 250 pounds a week, which was a lot of money then. They received very basic care and the food budget that I had to work with was ridiculous. The butcher delivered the weekly meat order every Monday and the owner of the home took half for herself, husband and two children. With the other half I had to feed 14 residents and two staff.
It's nothing new, this ripping off and abuse of the elderly and it's time it stopped. Local councils and private companies try to run their 'care' facilities as cheaply as possible and sometimes this results in people being hired who are not suitable for the job, or lack of care and sustenance or both.
However after saying all that, the responsibility of our elderly lies with us. Our parents took care of us when we needed it and it's up to us to care for them when they can no longer do it for themselves.

Great post JennyJuniper.
I know not every person can be looked after by family, nursing homes do have their place, however it is very easy in this day and age to pass the care of your families over to someone else.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]


Agree with that it's just too easy to hand over responsibility to the state, and especially now when it is run so badly, that said money should be available for our elderly, they have contributed all their lives, and it might seem a long way off but we will all get there eventually so it's in everyone's interest to have a sustainable guaranteed social care fund. Buck House, Houses of Parliament, foreign aid, HSE2, all these should divert cash towards this crisis,

I agree with that.

However the sad thing is now families are all overt the place now, to move in with an older relative can mean changes of jobs and location,for the elderly person to go and live with family, can mean them giving up their home and heading to places they maybe would rather not.

I hate care homes, sorry,I have yet to see a decent one in practice.
I would obviously care for my Mum and also even Aunts or Uncles if the need arose.
However again, caring for someone in great need,can mean giving up work too, often the elderly do not want lots of outside carers n and out their home.

I know of someone who gave up her work to look after her Mum who now has early dementia,they get a pittance as to carers allowance, also their Mum because they moved in with her, lost near all her pension credit.

I think the whole thing needs overhauling and you make good points, money should not matter.
It is clearly there for many other things which you highlight could be shelved.

This govt. has paid lip service to this issue for years and the Labour govt. before it too, for me however the dignity, security and emotional support a family itself can and should give to an elderly relative, should have no cost put on it at all.
The support financial and otherwise when needed, should be there as a priority not as a begrudged afterthought.
Also done and put in place now, not having politicians needing to be dragged along kicking and screaming to ensure it gets done.

[Toy Soldier]

The problem with saying "their kids should do it!" is that the age gaps simply often don't work out to make that feasible. If 90 year old Betty had her daughter at 20 and now needs looking after... That daughter is also 70 years old, and very likely not in the position to take on that role.

You also have the fact that the number in need of dementia care is increasing year on year whereas the available care is not increasing, and in some areas, decreasing. These people need professional care round the clock... Leaving them with family is simply not feasible. It's a ticking time bomb that is being utterly ignored.

[Brillopad]

Also the 'burden' usually falls on women who have families, jobs etc and can't just give up their jobs to look after after parents with dementia.

Also, many dementia patients are aggressive and violent and it is no-ones' interests to do so, not least those with dementia who need specialist care.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The problem with saying "their kids should do it!" is that the age gaps simply often don't work out to make that feasible. If 90 year old Betty had her daughter at 20 and now needs looking after... That daughter is also 70 years old, and very likely not in the position to take on that role.

You also have the fact that the number in need of dementia care is increasing year on year whereas the available care is not increasing, and in some areas, decreasing. These people need professional care round the clock... Leaving them with family is simply not feasible. It's a ticking time bomb that is being utterly ignored.

I don't think anyone is advocating that all elderly can be looked after solely by their families as it depends on the level of care required, however there are a number who could be helped by their families not just by their kids but by grandkids as well familial responsibility doesn't just stop at "the kids" , but yeah it is being ignored in favour of more popular causes

[jaxie]

I'd like to see places that were an umbrella of care with people still having as much independence as possible. So many of these places are like being institutionalised. My mother lives in a sheltered housing flat and has some at home care popping in and out, she also has me and neighbours and she's sharp as a whip and happy. My grandmother who was in a care home deteriorated very quickly when she went in, unfortunately the family weren't in a position to care for her at the time as my father had just become disabled and the family care was focused on him. I do understand families can't always do it or can't do it all. Though the circumstances were a bit different, I think my mum's old age is much better.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

Many years ago I worked as a cook in a care home for the elderly and they were being ripped off then!! This was in the 1980's and they were paying 250 pounds a week, which was a lot of money then. They received very basic care and the food budget that I had to work with was ridiculous. The butcher delivered the weekly meat order every Monday and the owner of the home took half for herself, husband and two children. With the other half I had to feed 14 residents and two staff.
It's nothing new, this ripping off and abuse of the elderly and it's time it stopped. Local councils and private companies try to run their 'care' facilities as cheaply as possible and sometimes this results in people being hired who are not suitable for the job, or lack of care and sustenance or both.
However after saying all that, the responsibility of our elderly lies with us. Our parents took care of us when we needed it and it's up to us to care for them when they can no longer do it for themselves.

Although I agree with your sentiments to some extent, in reality it simply isn't practical. Most of the responsibility would fall on women, which isn't fair, but from experience this usually happens. I am currently in this situation and cannot afford to just give up my job and my relative needs 24-hour care.
Also my relative felt strongly that they did not want to burden their family with caring for them - that is not the reason why they had children and I agree with that as I would not want to burden my family either. People choose to have children and usually do so for unselfish reasons. Most do not expect or want their family to become their carers as 'thanks' for having them.

I do not agree with trying to guilt-trip people. Not to mention this is what the government wants, to pass the responsibility onto families to take it away from themselves and saving money for them.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The problem with saying "their kids should do it!" is that the age gaps simply often don't work out to make that feasible. If 90 year old Betty had her daughter at 20 and now needs looking after... That daughter is also 70 years old, and very likely not in the position to take on that role.

You also have the fact that the number in need of dementia care is increasing year on year whereas the available care is not increasing, and in some areas, decreasing. These people need professional care round the clock... Leaving them with family is simply not feasible. It's a ticking time bomb that is being utterly ignored.

It is so not
Care robots for old folks are being tested
in Asia now.
They will remind the patient
it's time to take the yellow pill


They can even lift a Old lady to her bed
now TS the future is bright , expanding and robotic



Life In the City

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by arista

It is so not
Care robots for old folks are being tested
in Asia now.
They will remind the patient
it's time to take the yellow pill


They can even lift a Old lady to her bed
now TS the future is bright , expanding and robotic



Life In the City

Can they bathe patients, cook for them, take care of their toileting, stop them from falling, call emergency services when they become unwell, offer them emotional support and all the other tasks involved. Somehow I think not.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Can they bathe patients, cook for them, take care of their toileting, stop them from falling, call emergency services when they become unwell, offer them emotional support and all the other tasks involved. Somehow I think not.

Yes they will Alert Emergency Services
Yes meals are cooked in the Microwave
done by the care robot.

Not given to the patient until its not to hot etc


"take care of their toileting"
that's not on this level
So humans will do that, for now

Emotional Support
will come via a song they like
and a auto link to a Human Doctor
"when available."

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't think anyone is advocating that all elderly can be looked after solely by their families as it depends on the level of care required, however there are a number who could be helped by their families not just by their kids but by grandkids as well familial responsibility doesn't just stop at "the kids" , but yeah it is being ignored in favour of more popular causes

The government can't push capitalism / individualism / pursuit of personal profit and then still expect there to be a sense of community of familial responsibility somehow at the same time... you get one or the other. How can an adult grandchild be a full time carer for an elderly relative when the government won't accept anything less than full time employment / "every man for themselves" in terms of personal economic wellbeing? Families don't grow up, settle and age within small communities where they can help each other any more. The vast majority find that they HAVE to relocate to find any sort of financial security and this is actively encouraged or, at least, not discouraged. There is absolutely no interest in preserving or protecting communities or family units.

[Cherie]

Elderly care does not have a one size fits all solution, some are happy to go into homes and they thrive on the routine and environment, some desperately want to stay in their own home, some need 24 hour care, some just need enough support to be able to stay at home, some will need nursing care whilst others will need dementia care, this idea that the best solution is to shove them into a home and that's job done needs addressing, and the wishes of the individual needs to be addressed on a case by case basis. Would we chuck everyone with a mental health problem into a mental institution, no we wouldn't but that seems to be the thinking behind elder care, and whilst it is not a palatable truth some families turn their backs when the going gets tough.

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Although I agree with your sentiments to some extent, in reality it simply isn't practical. Most of the responsibility would fall on women, which isn't fair, but from experience this usually happens. I am currently in this situation and cannot afford to just give up my job and my relative needs 24-hour care.
Also my relative felt strongly that they did not want to burden their family with caring for them - that is not the reason why they had children and I agree with that as I would not want to burden my family either. People choose to have children and usually do so for unselfish reasons. Most do not expect or want their family to become their carers as 'thanks' for having them.

I do not agree with trying to guilt-trip people. Not to mention this is what the government wants, to pass the responsibility onto families to take it away from themselves and saving money for them.

I agree it's not always feasable and I'm not trying to guilt trip anyone. All I am saying is, where possible children should help to care for their parents, be it by home visits or at the least making sure that the care facilities/home are up to standard.
Unfortunately the care home I worked in had 14 lady residents, who rarely received visits from their families and therefore had no idea (or couldn't care less) how their relatives were being treated.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

I agree it's not always feasable and I'm not trying to guilt trip anyone. All I am saying is, where possible children should help to care for their parents, be it by home visits or at the least making sure that the care facilities/home are up to standard.
Unfortunately the care home I worked in had 14 lady residents, who rarely received visits from their families and therefore had no idea (or couldn't care less) how their relatives were being treated.

That's sad! I know families do not always get on for one reason or another but you would think that the majority would at least want to visit and check they are okay!

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Elderly care does not have a one size fits all solution, some are happy to go into homes and they thrive on the routine and environment, some desperately want to stay in their own home, some need 24 hour care, some just need enough support to be able to stay at home, some will need nursing care whilst others will need dementia care, this idea that the best solution is to shove them into a home and that's job done needs addressing, and the wishes of the individual needs to be addressed on a case by case basis. Would we chuck everyone with a mental health problem into a mental institution, no we wouldn't but that seems to be the thinking behind elder care, and whilst it is not a palatable truth some families turn their backs when the going gets tough.

I agree it's not one-size-fits-all, and full time care in a home costs a fortune. If they would pay a family member the equivalent of a full time wage to care full time for someone, it would cost a fraction of what a care home costs... and yet, they won't do that. They pay an absolute pittance to full-time carers. Not enough realistically to survive on... so how many can realistically take it on? If they would simply make it financially viable for families to care for elderly relatives, that would go a long way to solving the problem twice-over. It would be CHEAPER, and people would be with family where they would much rather be.


Of course there's also the very uncomfortable elephant in the room. Not everyone was treated well by their parents / grandparents when they were growing up... and owe them **** all in terms of care.

[Kizzy]

They have never gotten joined up care right here have they?
That said the provision of care in the homes of elderly patients through private enterprise I would say would per client be more expensive than the old council funded care home so I'm not surprised the funding is being cut.

Through pension credits now the govt has a better idea of who has what in the way of savings and is perhaps looking for a way to either capitalise on that by lowering the threshold at which care must be self funded, or they will find one or two providers they can 'liase' with ... say, Serco for instance?