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Kizzy · 14-02-2017, 11:57 AM

Is it justified?..

'I'll pose a question, in all the years since say... the gulf war started, excluding the twin towers as that was 'evidenced' to be Libya, what direct terrorist incident from extremist Muslims has the US experienced on American soil?'

Therefore what is the evidence to support the executive order?

I posted this in a thread but it wasn't well received and it really does warrant a thread of it's own.

Northern Monkey · 14-02-2017, 01:24 PM

I think if it's only until the vetting process is sorted out properly then it could possibly be temporarily justified.IF that's what it is.
I'm against his refugee ban though as they can be vetted in the camp before they arrive on US soil and people with green cards should not be turned away as by definition they have already been vetted.So as a whole i'm against Trumps executive order.He's gone a step too far imo.

LeatherTrumpet · 14-02-2017, 01:29 PM

But also to answer the OP

YOu do realise that most of the evidence you ask for will be intelligence and classified?

Kizzy · 14-02-2017, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I think if it's only until the vetting process is sorted out properly then it could possibly be temporarily justified.IF that's what it is.
I'm against his refugee ban though as they can be vetted in the camp before they arrive on US soil and people with green cards should not be turned away as by definition they have already been vetted.So as a whole i'm against Trumps executive order.He's gone a step too far imo.

This is it, there is no evidence that the system they have atm is not working.

jennyjuniper · 14-02-2017, 01:34 PM

Why exclude the twin towers? Even if it were Libya behind it. They were still muslim terrorists. Then there is the Boston Marathon massacre. That's only off the top of my head, although I'm sure they will be more. Anyway since isis and other like minded morons keep making threats, it's the potential for terrorist violence that the US and other western countries have to guard against.

Kizzy · 14-02-2017, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But also to answer the OP

YOu do realise that most of the evidence you ask for will be intelligence and classified?

Ok I amended the question.

It would be impossible to men in black stylee erase an attack, except the bowling green massacre obv...

'what direct terrorist incident from extremist Muslims has the US experienced on American soil?'

LeatherTrumpet · 14-02-2017, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ok I amended the question.

It would be impossible to men in black stylee erase an attack, except the bowling green massacre obv...

'what direct terrorist incident from extremist Muslims has the US experienced on American soil?'

And you know that is why the Executive order was signed how?

Kizzy · 14-02-2017, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

Why exclude the twin towers? Even if it were Libya behind it. They were still muslim terrorists. Then there is the Boston Marathon massacre. That's only off the top of my head, although I'm sure they will be more. Anyway since isis and other like minded morons keep making threats, it's the potential for terrorist violence that the US and other western countries have to guard against.

Leader of the 9/11 hijackers was Mohammed Atta, an Egyptian. Egypt is not on the list.

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Was an American citizen.

Kizzy · 14-02-2017, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

And you know that is why the Executive order was signed how?

I don't... I'm asking what is the justification for an executive order.

DemolitionRed · 14-02-2017, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Is it justified?..

'I'll pose a question, in all the years since say... the gulf war started, excluding the twin towers as that was 'evidenced' to be Libya, what direct terrorism from extremist Muslims has the US experienced on American soil?'

Therefore what is the evidence to support the executive order?

I posted this in a thread but it wasn't well received and it really does warrant a thread of it's own.

I'm going to turn your question around for a moment Kizzy. I hope you don't mind...

1. What direct terrorism from extreme Western governments have the Iraqi, Libyan, Afghan and Syrian people experienced on their own soil?'

All these anti-Muslim threads certain people keep posting on here are tiresome but the accusations that us lefties are in some way complicit with these Muslim terrorists, is tedious and misguided.

Unfortunately, due to the present hysteria surrounding Islam, it has made sensible criticism of that faith almost impossible. I would love to be able to sensibly criticise certain things about the Muslim faith or sensibly talk about how terrorism could be avoided but instead, I find myself defending Islam because the ignorance surrounding these topics is both ignorant and stupid. I can't talk sensibly about Islam and all the problems with Jihadists and neither can I talk about these things with people who are Islamophobes.

LeatherTrumpet · 14-02-2017, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm going to turn your question around for a moment Kizzy. I hope you don't mind...

1. What direct terrorism from extreme Western governments have the Iraqi, Libyan, Afghan and Syrian people experienced on their own soil?'

All these anti-Muslim threads certain people keep posting on here are tiresome but the accusations that us lefties are in some way complicit with these Muslim terrorists, is tedious and misguided.

Unfortunately, due to the present hysteria surrounding Islam, it has made sensible criticism of that faith almost impossible. I would love to be able to sensibly criticise certain things about the Muslim faith or sensibly talk about how terrorism could be avoided but instead, I find myself defending Islam because the ignorance surrounding these topics is both ignorant and stupid. I can't talk sensibly about Islam and all the problems with Jihadists and neither can I talk about these things with people who are Islamophobes.

All these anti-Muslim threads certain people keep posting on here are tiresome but the accusations that us lefties are in some way complicit with these Muslim terrorists, is tedious and misguided.

Can I remind you that it is against forum rules to insult members and secondly

what accusations do you specifically refer to?

DemolitionRed · 14-02-2017, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

All these anti-Muslim threads certain people keep posting on here are tiresome but the accusations that us lefties are in some way complicit with these Muslim terrorists, is tedious and misguided.

Can I remind you that it is against forum rules to insult members and secondly

what accusations do you specifically refer to?

I didn't insult anyone directly but if you see yourself in the image I painted and if it makes you feel offended then I'm just going to have to live with that.

LeatherTrumpet · 14-02-2017, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I didn't insult anyone directly but if you see yourself in the image I painted and if it makes you feel offended then I'm just going to have to live with that.

No I am reminding you of forum rules so that people dont report you and you get banned

Withano · 14-02-2017, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't... I'm asking what is the justification for an executive order.

I'm genuinely surprised to see there is none so far. I saw this thread earlier and assumed it would be debated for days, but there is little rational input from the other side up to now

LeatherTrumpet · 14-02-2017, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano

I'm genuinely surprised to see there is none so far. I saw this thread earlier and assumed it would be debated for days, but there is little rational input from the other side up to now

because no one on Tibb has security clearance for US intelligence

thankfully a vet USA soldier has at least shone a mirror at Iraq for us all.

Withano · 14-02-2017, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

because no one on Tibb has security clearance for US intelligence

thankfully a vet USA soldier has at least shone a mirror at Iraq for us all.

Are you suggesting that hundreds of American people lost family members to extremists and it was ignored by all media?

LeatherTrumpet · 14-02-2017, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano

Are you suggesting that hundreds of American people lost family members to extremists and it was ignored by all media?

i am not, what i said was pretty clear tbh

Cherie · 14-02-2017, 04:28 PM

I don't particularly see a need for it, The USA has a pretty good vetting system before you go not to mention the grilling you get when you arrive, unless you exit via Dublin/Shannon where you get the grilling before you leave the country,

I think Trump just wants to be seen to be honouring his election pledges, I don't know why he is going against the judges though

Withano · 14-02-2017, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i am not, what i said was pretty clear tbh

So in summary; no evidence in support for the executive order. Interesting. Are you in favour of it?

Withano · 14-02-2017, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't particularly see a need for it, The USA has a pretty good vetting system before you go not to mention the grilling you get when you arrive, unless you exit via Dublin/Shannon where you get the grilling before you leave the country,

I think Trump just wants to be seen to be honouring his election pledges, I don't know why he is going against the judges though

I agree with all of this. Id like to add that hes an old-fashioned man-child

Toy Soldier · 14-02-2017, 04:34 PM

It's merely the metaphorical extension of his "Wall". Both will cost the US a fortune, neither will increase their national security in any measurable way, so no, it's not justified at all. It's (yet another) popularity grab from a celebrity president that cares (1000x) more about an image that he wants to portray than any sort of usefulness or pragmatism in any of his policies.