[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

My point being there is always someone who will have a different view who will point out any perceived inconsistencies/bias/procedural inaccuracies etc.

This is a Hugh unknown area and complacency is foolhardy. At the end of the day there is no proven right or wrong - only viewpoint.

This isn't true though which is the point you missed about twelve times. There is no second way to perceive a statistical analysis. The questions in this dataset are undoubtedly internally unreliable in literally everyone's mind, including the mind of the initial researcher. The author of your article ignores this fact (not opinion, fact) and has mislead you into believing exactly what you searched out to look for. Which is kinda how confirmation bias works.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The vast majority of FGM is carried out in Northern African countries and has been going on for over 2000 years - since before the birth of Christianity, let alone Islam - so is almost certainly rooted in once-obscure tribal traditions, and would be going on in those areas regardless of the majority religion. Like a horrific "Christmas Tree", I suppose.

But let's not let pesky facts get in the way of a good bit of anti-islam rhetoric.

Unfortunately British girls are taken out of this country to have FGM and then returned. And yet there has never been one prosecution.

'Fifty girls' taken from UK to Somalia for FGM

FGM is banned but very much alive in the UK

"It's a custom that is very much alive, not just in home countries but in Scotland," says Anela Anwar, from the Glasgow-based charity Roshni. "People have given us information saying girls are being cut in Scotland or we hear that girls are taken back home to be cut over the summer holidays."

FGM has been illegal in the UK since 1985, and since 2003 anyone taking a child out of the UK to be cut faces 14 years in prison. However, there has yet to be a single conviction. Two people were arrested in November accused of carrying out FGM on a five-week-old baby but, according to the Metropolitan police, there was "insufficient evidence to proceed".

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Unfortunately British girls are taken out of this country to have FGM and then returned. And yet there has never been one prosecution.

'Fifty girls' taken from UK to Somalia for FGM

FGM is banned but very much alive in the UK

"It's a custom that is very much alive, not just in home countries but in Scotland," says Anela Anwar, from the Glasgow-based charity Roshni. "People have given us information saying girls are being cut in Scotland or we hear that girls are taken back home to be cut over the summer holidays."

FGM has been illegal in the UK since 1985, and since 2003 anyone taking a child out of the UK to be cut faces 14 years in prison. However, there has yet to be a single conviction. Two people were arrested in November accused of carrying out FGM on a five-week-old baby but, according to the Metropolitan police, there was "insufficient evidence to proceed".

How do they prove this though is the question? unless the girl reports it and actually shows them which is probably unlikely

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

This isn't true though which is the point you missed about twelve times. There is no second way to perceive a statistical analysis. The questions in this dataset are undoubtedly internally unreliable in literally everyone's mind, including the mind of the initial researcher. The author of your article ignores this fact (not opinion, fact) and has mislead you into believing exactly what you searched out to look for. Which is kinda how confirmation bias works.

And you think different questions will turn around the conclusions. All the problems experienced throughout the West suggest differently. Constantly attempting to undermine my views won't change that.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How do they prove this though is the question? unless the girl reports it and actually shows them which is probably unlikely

I believe some of it comes out because NHS after care is often needed to mutilated little girls so it's not without medical proof. I think they just choose not to prosecute because often it's a parent involved. I would argue it's no different from any other form of child abuse.

Surely taking your child to have their privates cut up is as bad as beating them up or other forms of assault?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I believe some of it comes out because NHS after care is often needed to mutilated little girls so it's not without medical proof. I think they just choose not to prosecute because often it's a parent involved. I would argue it's no different from any other form of child abuse.

Surely taking your child to have their privates cut up is as bad as beating them up or other forms of assault?

You would think so wouldn't you. But an underlying current of PC is still prioritising religious freedom over child welfare, especially when it involves girls.

This country needs to get their priorities right and stand up to this madness.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

You can't equate one with the other. Male circumcision is widely used in a surgical way for heath rather than a religion observance. Most men in the US are circumcised but not for relgiious reasons. It's not like having your clitoris hacked off with a pair of scissors. There's no justification for FGM.

This isn't an anti-Muslim stance from me, it's reasons why people who live in backward countries - like the countries who carry out FGM - don't have much time for the west.

If it were religious observance and not a cultural one then all Muslim countries would practice surely?

[Kizzy]

I have a new term colonophobia, the refusal to acknowledge the colonial crimes past and present of the 'empire'.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I believe some of it comes out because NHS after care is often needed to mutilated little girls so it's not without medical proof. I think they just choose not to prosecute because often it's a parent involved. I would argue it's no different from any other form of child abuse.

Surely taking your child to have their privates cut up is as bad as beating them up or other forms of assault?

Oh of course, its barbaric i completly agree, I hadnt thought of the example you gave, I just wondered how theyd fi d out but thats a good example you gave

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And you think different questions will turn around the conclusions. All the problems experienced throughout the West suggest differently. Constantly attempting to undermine my views won't change that.

No conclusions can be drawn on this data set. Yes different questions are. needed to rectify this, the current questions were statistically founded to not be reliable inside the original publication and every critique afterwards. Nobody is trying to undermine you, you have genuinely missed the point multiple times by convincing yourself that the article about the publication is true through no clear argument. The article deliberately mislead you into thinking that way, by inaccurately reporting the findings of the publication.
You can have your opinion sure. The original publication does not support your opinions. This is the problem with confirmation bias. Anything can be true by typing it into google and refusing to fact check.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If it were religious observance and not a cultural one then all Muslim countries would practice surely?

I personally don't really care about nitpicking over whether it's 'cultural' or 'religious'. I'm more concerned that's it's barbaric, horrific, agonising, and life changing.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

No conclusions can be drawn on this data set. Yes different questions are. needed to rectify this, the current questions were statistically founded to not be reliable inside the original publication and every critique afterwards. Nobody is trying to undermine you, you have genuinely missed the point multiple times by convincing yourself that the article about the publication is true through no clear argument. The article deliberately mislead you into thinking that way, by inaccurately reporting the findings of the publication.
You can have your opinion sure. The original publication does not support your opinions. This is the problem with confirmation bias. Anything can be true by typing it into google and refusing to fact check.

Don't patronise me - I don't just type in some inflammatory title and go for the first thing that comes up. I have been to uni too you know and am familiar with referencing and credible sources.

It was a legitimate article from a credible source. Apparently there has been criticism of the type of questions asked and the backgrounds of the target group i.e. Turkish and Moroccan Muslims but I don't personally believe that would have made a Hugh difference to the outcome.

Add to that all the problems occurring across the West with Muslims from other countries, it doesn't seem likely that using a slighting different demographic and a change in wording would produce a significant change, although some clearly want to believe it would.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh of course, its barbaric i completly agree, I hadnt thought of the example you gave, I just wondered how theyd fi d out but thats a good example you gave

Some little girls get nasty infections and die.

Also it gets found out a few years later as young women start to have sex and children and obviously the having children involves going to hospital or problems having sex mean consulting a doctor.

I think they should make this a crime even after some years have passed. The only way to stop it is to come down on it and show there are consequences even in say 10 years after the fact when you take your little girl to have this done to them. There isn't much we can do about other countries practices but surely we can stop little girls who are British being taken on FGM 'holidays'.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Don't patronise me - I don't just type in some inflammatory title and go for the first thing that comes up. I have been to uni too you know and am familiar with referencing and credible sources.

It was a legitimate article from a credible source. Apparently there has been criticism of the type of questions asked and the backgrounds of the target group i.e. Turkish and Moroccan Muslims but I don't personally believe that would have made a Hugh difference to the outcome.

Add to that all the problems occurring across the West with Muslims from other countries, it doesn't seem likely that using a slighting different demographic and a change in wording would produce a significant change, although some clearly want to believe it would.

Except the source of which all the statistics in that article stem from has been discredited by the flawed way it was carried out. Plus any website that would allow such a problematic, untrue and hole filled article such as that is not a credible source. No balanced or credible source would touch that article for it's headline alone, nevermind the problematic content of the article itself.

You can cling to it all you want but it's not going to change anything, the article is confirmation bias trash and if you're going to disregard all the faults with it because it's content suits your own agenda then you have lost this debate.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Some little girls get nasty infections and die.

Also it gets found out a few years later as young women start to have sex and children and obviously the having children involves going to hospital or problems having sex mean consulting a doctor.

I think they should make this a crime even after some years have passed. The only way to stop it is to come down on it and show there are consequences even in say 10 years after the fact when you take your little girl to have this done to them. There isn't much we can do about other countries practices but surely we can stop little girls who are British being taken on FGM 'holidays'.

Talk about the 'holiday' from hell. The disgusting controlling behaviours of male dominated societies. Makes me sick.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Some little girls get nasty infections and die.

Also it gets found out a few years later as young women start to have sex and children and obviously the having children involves going to hospital or problems having sex mean consulting a doctor.

I think they should make this a crime even after some years have passed. The only way to stop it is to come down on it and show there are consequences even in say 10 years after the fact when you take your little girl to have this done to them. There isn't much we can do about other countries practices but surely we can stop little girls who are British being taken on FGM 'holidays'.

Yes I totally agree

[Vicky.]

I cannot believe there have never been any convictions for FGM. Disgusting practice, totally unnecessary and absolutely child abuse.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Except the source of which all the statistics in that article stem from has been discredited by the flawed way it was carried out. Plus any website that would allow such a problematic, untrue and hole filled article such as that is not a credible source. No balanced or credible source would touch that article for it's headline alone, nevermind the problematic content of the article itself.

You can cling to it all you want but it's not going to change anything, the article is confirmation bias trash and if you're going to disregard all the faults with it because it's content suits your own agenda then you have lost this debate.

No comment on the other article I mentioned then. Although older, 2009, it documented the history of Muslim immigration and the problems associated with it for many years, including how genuine refugee status has been watered down and abused and is endangering the welfare of those most in need.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No comment on the other article I mentioned then. Although older, 2009, it documented the history of Muslim immigration and the problems associated with it for many years, including how genuine refugee status has been watered down and abused and is endangering the welfare of those most in need.

Unless you have a link to it then it's worthless since it could very well be more trashy confirmation bias like this article was.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Unless you have a link to it then it's worthless since it could very well be more trashy confirmation bias like this article was.

For the record 'Islamic migration in the West' is hardly an inflammatory title, which is what I keyed in. The article wasn't trashy - big difference between a limited demographic and trashy - and you talk of inflammatory wording.

'Europe's Shifting Immigration Dynamic ' also is hardly inflammatory and The Middle East Quarterly is also a credible source. You do try.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

For the record 'Islamic migration in the West' is hardly an inflammatory title, which is what I keyed in. The article wasn't trashy - big difference between a limited demographic and trashy - and you talk of inflammatory wording.

'Europe's Shifting Immigration Dynamic ' also is hardly inflammatory and The Middle East Quarterly is also a credible source. You do try.

No links, no point. If you're going to make a point of mentioning an article to back up what you are saying then you have to link it.

Given the article you posted as gospel in this thread, I can only assume these other articles are of similar 'quality' especially how you seem so reluctant to post them. Unless you can provide links then they aren't worth mentioning.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

No links, no point. If you're going to make a point of mentioning an article to back up what you are saying then you have to link it.

Given the article you posted as gospel in this thread, I can only assume these other articles are of similar 'quality' especially how you seem so reluctant to post them. Unless you can provide links then they aren't worth mentioning.

I am not reluctant but unable to post a link. Simply keying in Europe's shifting immigration dynamic and clicking on the Middle East Quarterly is all it takes.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I am not reluctant but unable to post a link. Simply keying in Europe's shifting immigration dynamic and clicking on the Middle East Quarterly is all it takes.

So any arguments related to these invisible articles should be disregarded then if you aren't willing to provide them to discuss.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I have a new term, colonophobia

...That kind of sounds like it would be about something else Kizzy

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

So any arguments related to these invisible articles should be disregarded then if you aren't willing to provide them to discuss.

Whatever.