[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There was no backlash when council tax was hiked to pay for adult social care.... how is this proposal any different?

Because money would be wasted on children who don't need it. Those that do already receive free school meals. He said it would be provided for all children.

There is a lack of money and it shouldn't be spent on meals that are not needed. It is manipulative and intended to tug at the heart strings of those gullible enough to think children are going hungry at school.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

All parties have perceived hypocrites in them as to policies they direct at others in govt.

This policy will help in that all primary pupils get free meals and therefore removes part of the stigma from pupils who at present need the free aspect of same.

Anything that helps stop children feeling inferior is a good thing.
Or maybe some like the idea of children 'needing' free school meals being ridiculed for needing same.

Also it at least opens up a proper meal ensured too.
That's a good thing too.

I don't see that a lot, people liking the idea of children being in need. I don't expect you do either.

As Brillo has said, kids who need free meals already get them. This is just another little campaign in Corbyn's class war, but sadly he's targeting not exclusively rich people, but working class and middle class people who struggle and go without to send their kids to private school. Or maybe some like the idea of people having to remove their kids from a school where they're settled and sticking them back into the state system because they can't afford an extra 20% on fees.

[Northern Monkey]

Fixing a 'problem'that doesn't need fixing and creating more problems.Sounds about right.

[DemolitionRed]

For all of you up in arms about putting VAT on private school fees, the Conservative Government have already announced they are going to do this (back in February). The only difference between Corbyn's and Goves suggestion is, Corbyn wants to give that money back to poorer students and the Conservatives want to use it to to pay the deficit.

[AnnieK]

And I for one am as against any party doing it....nothing to do with who has said what...I'm not blinkered or biased by politics in that way.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

For all of you up in arms about putting VAT on private school fees, the Conservative Government have already announced they are going to do this (back in February). The only difference between Corbyn's and Goves suggestion is, Corbyn wants to give that money back to poorer students and the Conservatives want to use it to to pay the deficit.

Good point.

[smudgie]

So does EX Educations minister Gove run the country, or the Tories?
The fact that he wrote what he thinks about it in the paper doesn't mean the Tories intend to grant him his wishes..surely.

[Ammi]

...it's hard to think of any positives with this, it seems like such a strange proposal by the Labour Party...since the introduction of Universal Free School meals for Key Stage 1 children by the present government, it's meant a huge cut to school's budgets because for each pupil registered as eligible for free school meals, each of those pupils received pupil premium funding to help with their attainment...this funding is vital to also enable schools to be able to subsidise so many things for families who otherwise would have their children missing out and therefore not having the same opportunities as other children have..with the present system of Universal Free School meals for the first 3 years of a school life, it's meant that families no longer need to apply so therefore the funding for their children is not given in the absence of an application....what is being proposed here is to extend that 3 years to 7 years, a child's entire Primary School time...?...so saving many millions of pounds I presume with that alone...?...and that saving and that revenue being taken directly from the families who need it most....just crazy as and an awful proposal that really needs serious thinking about....

[Ammi]

..and that's without the revenue from the tax on private schools...

[arista]

Nice to have you back Ammi

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by smudgie

So does EX Educations minister Gove run the country, or the Tories?
The fact that he wrote what he thinks about it in the paper doesn't mean the Tories intend to grant him his wishes..surely.

No but then Corbyn isn't PM either.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

No but then Corbyn isn't PM either.

No, but he is touting it.
As leader of his party.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't see that a lot, people liking the idea of children being in need. I don't expect you do either.

As Brillo has said, kids who need free meals already get them. This is just another little campaign in Corbyn's class war, but sadly he's targeting not exclusively rich people, but working class and middle class people who struggle and go without to send their kids to private school. Or maybe some like the idea of people having to remove their kids from a school where they're settled and sticking them back into the state system because they can't afford an extra 20% on fees.

I actually do go along with much you say.

I hate the class war in politics,whether that is something like this or the present govts.sledgehamner attitude to the sick and disabled.

I personally like and see merits to this policy but as I said earlier funded by another means.
Also I do think if all primary pupils had free meals that would remove any lingering stigma towards those who need it.

I can however take some of your points on board definitely.

[Toy Soldier]

OMG AMMI omg omg omg

omg

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it's hard to think of any positives with this, it seems like such a strange proposal by the Labour Party...since the introduction of Universal Free School meals for Key Stage 1 children by the present government, it's meant a huge cut to school's budgets because for each pupil registered as eligible for free school meals, each of those pupils received pupil premium funding to help with their attainment...this funding is vital to also enable schools to be able to subsidise so many things for families who otherwise would have their children missing out and therefore not having the same opportunities as other children have..with the present system of Universal Free School meals for the first 3 years of a school life, it's meant that families no longer need to apply so therefore the funding for their children is not given in the absence of an application....what is being proposed here is to extend that 3 years to 7 years, a child's entire Primary School time...?...so saving many millions of pounds I presume with that alone...?...and that saving and that revenue being taken directly from the families who need it most....just crazy as and an awful proposal that really needs serious thinking about....

QUEEN

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't see that a lot, people liking the idea of children being in need. I don't expect you do either.

As Brillo has said, kids who need free meals already get them. This is just another little campaign in Corbyn's class war, but sadly he's targeting not exclusively rich people, but working class and middle class people who struggle and go without to send their kids to private school. Or maybe some like the idea of people having to remove their kids from a school where they're settled and sticking them back into the state system because they can't afford an extra 20% on fees.

And Brillos opinion is gospel, what was it you were saying about opinions on that other thread again?
Countless teachers have a different perspective, I'll go with them as there is some basis in fact in their opinion.
Who's to say the fees would increase? Maybe they could allocate a percentage of what the fees are currently?

[joeysteele]

Mo

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And Brillos opinion is gospel, what was it you were saying about opinions on that other thread again?
Countless teachers have a different perspective, I'll go with them as there is some basis in fact in their opinion.
Who's to say the fees would increase? Maybe they could allocate a percentage of what the fees are currently?

I passed over that bit at the start of your post,like you I give my opinion and it is up to others to disagree or agree with me.
It is true,those who need free meals do get them but some suffer stigma for that.

This policy would remove any ridiculing of children getting free meals as all would get it.
So in fact this in part, funded another way, actually helps remove a possible class divide on the issue.
That's how I see it anyway in part.

Not needing to quote others to make a petty jibe at someone, just my opinion.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I actually do go along with much you say.

I hate the class war in politics,whether that is something like this or the present govts.sledgehamner attitude to the sick and disabled.

I personally like and see merits to this policy but as I said earlier funded by another means.
Also I do think if all primary pupils had free meals that would remove any lingering stigma towards those who need it.

I can however take some of your points on board definitely.

I'm not against primary school kids in state schools having free meals, I'm totally against people who scrimp and scrape to send their kids to private school being robbed to the tune of 20%. I see we share some ground on this.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And Brillos opinion is gospel, what was it you were saying about opinions on that other thread again?
Countless teachers have a different perspective, I'll go with them as there is some basis in fact in their opinion.
Who's to say the fees would increase? Maybe they could allocate a percentage of what the fees are currently?

Sigh.... I said "as Brillo has said..." to save me stating it all over again. How come I can't do that, but you can?

Will you please leave me alone? It's tiresome having to explain myself to you continually. Do you think joeysteele can't answer for himself? That's who I was talking to. Not you.

[joeysteele]

Absolutely Livia, I see some merits to the policy but I do feel the plan of funding it,is being planned from the wrong source.
I'd hope it is looked at.again and the funding raised from elsewhere.I

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Absolutely Livia, I see some merits to the policy but I do feel the plan of funding it,is being planned from the wrong source.
I'd hope it is looked at.again and the funding raised from elsewhere.I

And you know, for the record... I don't think Corbyn is a bad man. I think he has some very honourable intentions. I do think he is going about it the wrong way. He needs to engage the core Labour voters which he doesn't seem to be doing right now. We do need a strong Labour party... we need a strong opposition to hold the government to account but they're so wrapped up in their own mess at the moment it's not happening. I hope they sort themselves out.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

And you know, for the record... I don't think Corbyn is a bad man. I think he has some very honourable intentions. I do think he is going about it the wrong way. He needs to engage the core Labour voters which he doesn't seem to be doing right now. We do need a strong Labour party... we need a strong opposition to hold the government to account but they're so wrapped up in their own mess at the moment it's not happening. I hope they sort themselves out.

Totally agree

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

And you know, for the record... I don't think Corbyn is a bad man. I think he has some very honourable intentions. I do think he is going about it the wrong way. He needs to engage the core Labour voters which he doesn't seem to be doing right now. We do need a strong Labour party... we need a strong opposition to hold the government to account but they're so wrapped up in their own mess at the moment it's not happening. I hope they sort themselves out.

I think it is a good thing no early election is likely forthcoming for Labour.
I don't believe Jeremy Corbyn will lead Labour in an election in 2020.

I do believe Corbyn's best legacy now would be the cementing of some of his main policies,which do seem to have popular support from good numbers.

However he is not reaching the voters vitally needed, you can hold the undying loyal support of those around you for sure but not gathering that much needed new support from voters, leaves no room to progress.

Very sad is the way I look at UK politics right now.

[Northern Monkey]

I do like some of Corbyns policies.They are solid Labour ideas that i would like to vote for in a Labour party.It's just some of his hard left rhetoric and values that i think let it down for many.On top of his apparent inability to get much done or unite the party and his wishy washy stance on certain issues.
For me though Corbyn isn't the only part of Labours image crisis.Some of the people around him like Abbott and McDonnell are as much to blame.
Corbyn seems like a nice fella but a leader he is not imo.
I would like a whole new leadership before 2020 so i can vote Labour again and i think there are many people like me.

[DemolitionRed]

In recent years, many private schools have raised their prices a whopping 50% and they can do this because they can source from countries like SA, Russia, China and Dubai who's parents are often willing to pay big fees. Parents can tax dodge by allowing the school to accrue school fees in advance because private schools are a registered charity who don't pay VAT.

Its not the parents of these children who should be paying extra because of VAT but the schools themselves and this money should, imo be used for more bursaries or lowering degree fees.

Edited to add, it seems unfair that the richest school fee payers get the biggest opportunity to tax dodge.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think it is a good thing no early election is likely forthcoming for Labour.
I don't believe Jeremy Corbyn will lead Labour in an election in 2020.

I do believe Corbyn's best legacy now would be the cementing of some of his main policies,which do seem to have popular support from good numbers.

However he is not reaching the voters vitally needed, you can hold the undying loyal support of those around you for sure but not gathering that much needed new support from voters, leaves no room to progress.

Very sad is the way I look at UK politics right now.

I have it on good authority - ie gossip from the Tories I used to work with - that the consensus of opinion in Matthew Parker Street is that Theresa is keen on calling an early election while they're unexpectedly doing well in by-elections and while Labour's ratings are low. I really, really think that would be a mistake all round.