[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's strange how during a worldwide recession the national debt was half what it is now despite all our 'austerity' ....

You aren't allowed to point out facts that don't villify Labour, Kizzy!

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You aren't allowed to point out facts that don't villify Labour, Kizzy!

lies

[jaxie]

I believe a labour win would ruin the economy and I think they would totally cave in to the EU on Brexit and do everything the EU demand. However I do like what they have said about making it fair for families to be together re immigration. But then I would because I have a family member who loves someone from a country outside the EU.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I believe a labour win would ruin the economy and I think they would totally cave in to the EU on Brexit and do everything the EU demand. However I do like what they have said about making it fair for families to be together re immigration. But then I would because I have a family member who loves someone from a country outside the EU.

You'll get a better chance at the brexit you want with Corbyn, someone who actually wanted to leave but couldn't due to his party's views than with May who never wanted to leave in the first place but went with it 'cus it would benefit her in the long run and is proven to u-turn at the drop of a hat.

Corbyn wanted brexit, May did not.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You'll get a better chance at the brexit you want with Corbyn, someone who actually wanted to leave but couldn't due to his party's views than with May who never wanted to leave in the first place but went with it 'cus it would benefit her in the long run and is proven to u-turn at the drop of a hat.

Corbyn wanted brexit, May did not.

I don't think so because I believe that on the whole Labour are appeasers.

[DemolitionRed]

Its looking very much like a hung parliament at the moment. I bet Mayhap was wishing she'd never started this!.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Its looking very much like a hung parliament at the moment. I bet Mayhap was wishing she'd never started this!.

I think she has wildly misjudged it with regard to the dropping off of support based on her policies. She forgot that no matter how popular you seem that can change if you choose policies that are not popular with the public. Needed more homework done.

Having said that I'll still be surprised if she doesn't win.

[Toy Soldier]

Tories completely misjudged Brexit, so strongly believing that it would be a "no" that they called the referrendum with absolutely no plan in place for an "Out" vote.

Tories have now called for a GE at a crucial time in that Brexit process, so confident they were of a landslide majority, AGAIN failing to consider the chaos that will be caused by a hung parliament if they are wrong.

Strong and stable. What a ****ing joke. "Overconfident and stubborn" would be more accurate.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Tories completely misjudged Brexit, so strongly believing that it would be a "no" that they called the referrendum with absolutely no plan in place for an "Out" vote.

Tories have now called for a GE at a crucial time in that Brexit process, so confident they were of a landslide majority, AGAIN failing to consider the chaos that will be caused by a hung parliament if they are wrong.

Strong and stable. What a ****ing joke. "Overconfident and stubborn" would be more accurate.

I'm not entirely disagreeing but there were also many who were saying to anyone who'd listen, including people on this forum, that she wasn't elected, that a general election was needed, that she didn't have a proper mandate, etc etc.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I'm not entirely disagreeing but there were also many who were saying to anyone who'd listen, including people on this forum, that she wasn't elected, that a general election was needed, that she didn't have a proper mandate, etc etc.

The issue isn't really whether or not these votes have been needed or it's right to have them, though... The issue is that they are repeatedly assuming that they can predict the outcome of the vote before they call for it. So all of their plans are focused on their assumed outcome, without any safetynets or contingencies in place for alternative outcomes.

It's overconfidence, arrogance and complacency. Several high profile members of the party - including David Cameron himself - were badly burned by exactly that last summer and you would assume / hope those who opportunistically jumped in to take up those roles would actually have learned from those mistakes... But there's little sign of that. If anything, the apparently collapsing labour party and polls showing "landslide majority" have lead the Tories to feel practically invincible. Even talking up the most distasteful and similtaneously pointless of old-tory policies like fox hunting, as they were under the impression that nothing could even put a dent in their lead.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The issue isn't really whether or not these votes have been needed or it's right to have them, though... The issue is that they are repeatedly assuming that they can predict the outcome of the vote before they call for it. So all of their plans are focused on their assumed outcome, without any safetynets or contingencies in place for alternative outcomes.

It's overconfidence, arrogance and complacency. Several high profile members of the party - including David Cameron himself - were badly burned by exactly that last summer and you would assume / hope those who opportunistically jumped in to take up those roles would actually have learned from those mistakes... But there's little sign of that. If anything, the apparently collapsing labour party and polls showing "landslide majority" have lead the Tories to feel practically invincible. Even talking up the most distasteful and similtaneously pointless of old-tory policies like fox hunting, as they were under the impression that nothing could even put a dent in their lead.

In regards the referendum of course there should have been a plan for a leave outcome and clearly there wasn't. But a general election is a very different beast, not sure how you have a back up plan for that.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I don't think so because I believe that on the whole Labour are appeasers.

Based on what? May has literally folded or u-turned on pretty much every stance she's put forward, do you honestly believe she'll not fold on Brexit?

Corbyn at least knows what he wants, he wanted brexit all along and he'd be more likely to fight for it.

[Denver]

The whole free education thing will cost the UK Ł9 billion a year i dont know where he plans on getting the money from

[Tom4784]

May said no to a general election when the people wanted it because her position wasn't secure, she only called for an election when she did because the Tories spotted an opportunity to put paid to Labour and secure their hold on power.

This election was meant to be nothing more than a tactical assassination of the Labour Party and thankfully it's not looking like that'll be the case.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Based on what? May has literally folded or u-turned on pretty much every stance she's put forward, do you honestly believe she'll not fold on Brexit?

Corbyn at least knows what he wants, he wanted brexit all along and he'd be more likely to fight for it.

Based on many things I've heard Labour and Corbyn say in relation to Brexit.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Adam.

The whole free education thing will cost the UK Ł9 billion a year i dont know where he plans on getting the money from

Corporation tax. Labour have more money to spend than the tories because theyre taxing corporations billions, whereas tories are looking after the wealthy. Basic stuff adam.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

In regards the referendum of course there should have been a plan for a leave outcome and clearly there wasn't. But a general election is a very different beast, not sure how you have a back up plan for that.

Not on everything of course, but with specific regard to the ongoing Brexit negotiations. Someone should at least have asked the question; "What happens if it isn't a solid Tory majority?" and had a vague plan in place for transition of that... But the simple fact is, none of them thought for a second that it would be anything but a Tory landslide. Of course, it still might well be, nothing surprises me when it comes to voting outcomes these days, the voting public are for the mostpart fickle, bizarre and unpredictable. But that's the point, really. No one should assume they can "call it" - especially not those in power, for whom doing so has an actual impact.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Withano

Corporation tax. Labour have more money to spend than the tories because theyre taxing corporations billions, whereas tories are looking after the wealthy. Basic stuff adam.

So what happens when they take their business elsewhere that wont tax as much?

[Denver]

I dont know why cooperation's should pay the bulk load of taxes for someone else kids to Waste years of money getting drunk

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Adam.

So what happens when they take their business elsewhere that wont tax as much?

More room for those hard work migrants that appreciate the uk and want to set up a business here. Win win. Didnt even think of that. Corbyn truly is the hero.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Withano

More room for those hard work migrants that appreciate the uk and want to set up a business here. Win win. Didnt even think of that. Corbyn truly is the hero.

So you would rather a the British lose thousands of jobs for one job for an immigrant?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Adam.

The whole free education thing will cost the UK Ł9 billion a year i dont know where he plans on getting the money from

Do you understand how the central bank works?

The central bank can never run out of money. So as long as we can keep borrowing sterling, the country can never go bust. I'm not saying we should over-borrow money because that would be disastrous but so long as we make enough money for the economy to go round and not just into the hands of the biggest land owners, a Labour government could easily deliver its goals. The Tories have been refusing to make that money because their goals don't lay with the working people of Britain.

Spending money borrowed from the central bank is about getting a long term return. Borrowing at 1% is fine providing you invest that borrowing in projects that are going to yield more than 1% The problem with our present government is, its not investing. The result is... as you can see here http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/FAQ3GovtInv… Just when the economy needed it most the government is withholding.
Labour invested in 2008 to 2010 and the economy recovered from the 2008 crash. The Coalition withdrew investment and we are in a depression as a result.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Adam.

So you would rather a the British lose thousands of jobs for one job for an immigrant?

Whos losing jobs? You just said these people move away off their own accord. They dont sound very patriotic. The new businesses will employ new workers and the world keeps spinning, but this time with more tax from the richest citizens. That tax will fund the education of the future doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers etc etc.
Your potential lose scenario doesnt seem well thought through.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Adam.

I dont know why cooperation's should pay the bulk load of taxes for someone else kids to Waste years of money getting drunk

Oh come on. The Tories have made Britain into a tax haven at the expense of middle class and working class Britain.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Based on many things I've heard Labour and Corbyn say in relation to Brexit.

So not much then.