[parmnion]

Newcastle this time.

[Cherie]

This was debated yesterday, a few callers (all male Asian men) were incensed that the ring were being referred to as Muslim Asians, yet as another caller pointed out no one had a problem with outing Catholic priests so let's call them what they are because otherwise it's just trying to bury it

[arista]

Yes this was debated
LIVE on Ch5HD AM

a ASIAN FELLOW WAS CUT OFF THE Phone
as he kept saying what about jimmy savile?
but Matt said its Nothing to do with this topic.,,,,,

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes this was debated
LIVE on Ch5HD AM

a ASIAN FELLOW WAS CUT OFF THE Phone
as he kept saying what about jimmy savile?
but Matt said its Nothing to do with this topic.,,,,,

its not a competition as to what race has the most abusers it's a bit worrying that they are trying to deflect in this way

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

This was debated yesterday, a few callers (all male Asian men) were incensed that the ring were being referred to as Muslim Asians, yet as another caller pointed out no one had a problem with outing Catholic priests so let's call them what they are because otherwise it's just trying to bury it

I think the difference there is Catholic Priests were in a position of power especially over children and had alot of power within communities and even government (in Ireland anyway) So it would be more comparable if it were Muslim priests doing the abusing (or whatever the equivalent of a priest is)

I guess in this situation it would be like a group of white European paedophiles referred to as Christian paedophiles which never happens, lets be honest

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Newcastle this time.

Yes,dirty bastards ,this was on the news yesterday and they said it's no good covering the culprits by being PC,it is mainly Pakistani Asian men,so no good beating about the bush,they see white girls as worthless so their sick perverted ideals are acted out upon them,Lets for once put our girls first NOT the scums human rights.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

it's a bit worrying that they are trying to deflect in this way

And therein lies the problem with making sweeping statements about religion when discussing other issues. You get backlash, and the real issue gets lost.

But hey... you gotta fight for the right to... say stuff about Muslims etc. at any given opportunity. I guess. I mean that's the important thing isn't it? What was this story about again?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think the difference there is Catholic Priests were in a position of power especially over children and had alot of power within communities and even government (in Ireland anyway) So it would be more comparable if it were Muslim priests doing the abusing (or whatever the equivalent of a priest is)

I guess in this situation it would be like a group of white European paedophiles referred to as Christian paedophiles which never happens, lets be honest

I can't help feel to an extent it does stem from religion in the sense that women are not equals in the Muslim faith which then bleeds into culture family life. How do you expect people to respect women if their whole belief system is telling them that women are less than men.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I can't help feel to an extent it does stem from religion in the sense that women are not equals in the muslim faith which then bleeds into culture family life. How do you expect people to respect women if their whole belief system is telling them that women are less than men.

But what has that to do with paedohiles though?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

But what has that to do with paedohiles though?

Isn't it a case of abusing vulnerable teenage girls? In Islam quite young girls are still married, even girls who live in this country, so while we might view it as paedophile again the thing is a bit skewed by a belief system that is very different in regard to what is acceptable.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I can't help feel to an extent it does stem from religion in the sense that women are not equals which then bleeds into culture family life. How do you expect people to respect women if their whole belief system is telling them that women are less than men.

Perhaps some truth in that, but as is frequently pointed out, the gender inequality issues are largely cultural rather than religious, and more relevant to country of origin than religious leanings. Therefore, saying "an Asian gang" is sufficient, and there is no need to emphasise (possibly even assume?) "Muslim Asian". It feels, to me, like kicking the hornet's nest purely for the sake of it, or "point scoring". As always, counter-productive and distracting from the issue at hand and for... what? The "right" to make some sort of petty point.

"Aha those Muslims again!", absolutely no different to the "white people cant be racist" rhetoric. It's "outrage and incredulity" and the expense of real progress.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

But what has that to do with paedohiles though?

there does seem to be a cultural side to it for whatever reason. Its too simplistic to say that its just a few bad apples. It's like institutional racism, its not necessarily the majority involved for it to become a problem

[Toy Soldier]

Also, on the same vein (of avoiding sensationalism to properly address the actual issue);

A rapist gang that targets teenage girls is not the same thing as a paedophile ring. The abuse and molestation of underage post-adolescent girls is monstrous, but it is not paedophilia, which is specifically the sexual attraction to pre-adolescent children.

That's not a lessening / justification / anything else for anyone who would commit either horrific act... it's simply an accurate definition and an important distinction.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

there does seem to be a cultural side to it for whatever reason. Its too simplistic to say that its just a few bad apples. It's like institutional racism, its not necessarily the majority involved for it to become a problem

But to reiterate; to address the cultural component, saying "an Asian gang" is sufficient. Adding "Muslim" makes it a jibe / poke / point-scoring thing. It turns it into an anti-Muslim rant and completely distracts from the crime. It's not level-headed or helpful or appropriate.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Perhaps some truth in that, but as is frequently pointed out, the gender inequality issues are largely cultural rather than religious, and more relevant to country of origin than religious leanings. Therefore, saying "an Asian gang" is sufficient, and there is no need to emphasise (possibly even assume?) "Muslim Asian". It feels, to me, like kicking the hornet's nest purely for the sake of it, or "point scoring". As always, counter-productive and distracting from the issue at hand and for... what? The "right" to make some sort of petty point.

"Aha those Muslims again!", absolutely no different to the "white people cant be racist" rhetoric. It's "outrage and incredulity" and the expense of real progress.

Most of the culture is dictated by the religion. I don't see where colour comes into it, again you are confusing religion with race which you always do in any discussion where this particular faith is mentioned. Of course non muslims can be abusive. However we are talking about this case and there have been a number of these large rings now involving Asian men. It is not racist to say that some of the problem may be about unhealthy attitudes to women based on belief.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

its not a competition as to what race has the most abusers it's a bit worrying that they are trying to deflect in this way

Please Cherie understand
on that LIVE Ch5AM debate
they found out the judges were scared
of calling it Racist RAPE


Years back ,like "NEW" LABOUR
wanted it hidden,
they were in Power

[Vicky.]

Dirty bastards. So close to me too

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Most of the culture is dictated by the religion. I don't see where colour comes into it, again you are confusing religion with race which you always do in any discussion where this particular faith is mentioned. Of course non muslims can be abusive. However we are talking about this case and there have been a number of these large rings now involving Asian men. It is not racist to say that some of the problem may be about unhealthy attitudes to women based on belief.

I mentioned neither colour nor race? It is you who is assuming that all middle eastern men are practicing Muslims, by insisting on terming a middle eastern gang "a Muslim gang".

Regardless; my point stands. No matter how much truth ther is in it, if focussing on "Muslim!" is actually counterproductive to finding a solution, then why do it? Does the right to be fruitlessly outraged come before the need for level-headed solutions?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And therein lies the problem with making sweeping statements about religion when discussing other issues. You get backlash, and the real issue gets lost.

But hey... you gotta fight for the right to... say stuff about Muslims etc. at any given opportunity. I guess. I mean that's the important thing isn't it? What was this story about again?

Grown asian men targetting vulnerable young white british girls......usually taxi drivers.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think the difference there is Catholic Priests were in a position of power especially over children and had alot of power within communities and even government (in Ireland anyway) So it would be more comparable if it were Muslim priests doing the abusing (or whatever the equivalent of a priest is)

I guess in this situation it would be like a group of white European paedophiles referred to as Christian paedophiles which never happens, lets be honest

But Asian covers such a vast number of races, it is a problem among Asians who are muslim so why can we not say that?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I mentioned neither colour nor race? It is you who is assuming that all middle eastern men are practicing Muslims, by insisting on terming a middle eastern gang "a Muslim gang".

Regardless; my point stands. No matter how much truth ther is in it, if focussing on "Muslim!" is actually counterproductive to finding a solution, then why do it? Does the right to be fruitlessly outraged come before the need for level-headed solutions?

Its the muslim men who are outraged? at least that is what came across on the debate,

one also tried to deflect by saying all the girls were vulnerable and should be looked after better...

[Northern Monkey]

There have been loads of these gangs and loads of court cases around the country and it does seem to be a problem specific to Muslims.Don't forget many get married at a very young age and also there's the power over women thing.Yes there are sick bastards of all race but this is a particular cultural problem of it's own.The fact they do it as gangs and have group consensus on such a sick thing says alot rather than just some lone pervert in his basement.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Cherie

But Asian covers such a vast number of races, it is a problem among Asians who are muslim so why can we not say that?

It is indeed.It's a problem within the Muslim community.Sikhs and Hindus aren't going round doing this.It's a Muslim problem.People don't see the scale of it because mainstream media doesn't seem to cover all these cases.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And therein lies the problem with making sweeping statements about religion when discussing other issues. You get backlash, and the real issue gets lost.

But hey... you gotta fight for the right to... say stuff about Muslims etc. at any given opportunity. I guess. I mean that's the important thing isn't it? What was this story about again?

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Perhaps some truth in that, but as is frequently pointed out, the gender inequality issues are largely cultural rather than religious, and more relevant to country of origin than religious leanings. Therefore, saying "an Asian gang" is sufficient, and there is no need to emphasise (possibly even assume?) "Muslim Asian". It feels, to me, like kicking the hornet's nest purely for the sake of it, or "point scoring". As always, counter-productive and distracting from the issue at hand and for... what? The "right" to make some sort of petty point.

"Aha those Muslims again!", absolutely no different to the "white people cant be racist" rhetoric. It's "outrage and incredulity" and the expense of real progress.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I mentioned neither colour nor race? It is you who is assuming that all middle eastern men are practicing Muslims, by insisting on terming a middle eastern gang "a Muslim gang".

Regardless; my point stands. No matter how much truth ther is in it, if focussing on "Muslim!" is actually counterproductive to finding a solution, then why do it? Does the right to be fruitlessly outraged come before the need for level-headed solutions?

This and this and this all day long.

The constant need to highlight the word Muslim is pointless at best.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

This and this and this all day long.

The constant need to highlight the word Muslim is pointless at best.

it's a bit deeper than going around abusing teens, it an attitudinal problem that they see white girls as easy? why aren't they abusing young girls from their own community?