[jaxie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41200949

Absolute wickedness. Why does religion and abuse and mass murder so often go hand in hand? We are often told that you can't blame religion for the actions of some followers so why does this kind of thing seem to happen again and again? It's absolutely toxic.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41200949

Absolute wickedness. Why does religion and abuse and mass murder so often go hand in hand? We are often told that you can't blame religion for the actions of some followers so why does this kind of thing seem to happen again and again? It's absolutely toxic.

Truly shocking. Where is the care for vulnerable children and the general respect for human life from those supposed to care, those 'decent, caring adults' who were entrusted with their care. We often hear about this type of abuse in children's homes, and often involving religion - it is all such a far cry from what religion is supposed to represent. I gave up on religion a long time ago and see it for what it is - a form of control.

Those poor children had such awful, short little lives knowing nothing but suffering. It's things like that that make me wish there was an after-life and they got another chance at it.

[Vicky.]

Bloody disgusting

I do think people just use religion as an excuse though, and they would be sick ****s either way. If they didn't have religion to blame stuff on, they would find something else.

[Oliver_W]

Disgusting, such a shame they were discovered after the perps can face justice. Hopefully their God is burning them.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Truly shocking. Where is the care for vulnerable children and the general respect for human life from those supposed to care, those 'decent, caring adults' who were entrusted with their care. We often hear about this type of abuse in children's homes, and often involving religion - it is all such a far cry from what religion is supposed to represent. I gave up on religion a long time ago and see it for what it is - a form of control.

Those poor children had such awful, short little lives knowing nothing but suffering. It's things like that that make me wish there was an after-life and they got another chance at it.

Absolutely right all through.I agree with every word there.

This is disgusting but is another in a list of many.
Really horrifying.

Nothing more to add to what you've said.

[smudgie]

1870-1930, approx a third of them under 5 years old.
Only 24 over the age of 15.
All natural causes, all buried in a graveyard.
As it was a children's home, and taking the dates into account and the illnesses they died from I don't find anything surprising.
Does anybody realisically think that back in the day these children would be given individual graves with headstones, that would be lovingly attended with fresh flowers every week.
Unfortunately in times gone by there was nothing unusual in burying hundreds of babies, children and adults in one corner of a graveyard if no family could come forward and pay for a funeral.

[Vicky.]

Seems a lot of kids for such a short timespan to me really...I know the article claims 'most' died of natural causes but something just doesn't sit right about the whole thing :S

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Seems a lot of kids for such a short timespan to me really...I know the article claims 'most' died of natural causes but something just doesn't sit right about the whole thing :S

Yeah, if there were say ... 20 kids, I could buy it, back then it's conceivable one or more kid might die of natural causes, but THAT many? No.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Seems a lot of kids for such a short timespan to me really...I know the article claims 'most' died of natural causes but something just doesn't sit right about the whole thing :S

Child mortality rate was high amongst the poor at the time Vicky.
Pleurisy, pneumonia and TB was rife without the cures and vaccinations we take for granted now.

[joeysteele]

I do understand the diseases issue.
This place was it seems run by Nuns of the order of St Vincent.

We hear a lot about respect and dignity of the individual and in the Catholic faith,last rites with oil and incense plus holy water used at funerals over the coffins.

Mass graves are and should be an affront to that,little wonder the order of Nuns this home was under,does not want to comment.

It's shocking pure and simple in my opinion.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I do understand the diseases issue.
This place was it seems run by Nuns of the order of St Vincent.

We hear a lot about respect and dignity of the individual and in the Catholic faith,last rites with oil and incense plus holy water used at funerals over the coffins.

Mass grades are and should be an affront to that,little wonder the order of Nuns this home was under,does not want to comment.

It's shocking pure and simple in my opinion.

It was a different time, this was an orpanange in pre benefit times, I don't think it is right but there is nothing to say they weren't buried with the usual rituals just that they were buried in the same plot.. I expect it all came down to finance and saving the money for the living.... not saying abuse didn't go on in these homes because it patently did, and still does today in the care system, but once again everyone is tarred with the same brush, there were alot of decent people who took Holy Orders, just the same as not all teachers are paedos because of a few bad apples etc

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Bloody disgusting

I do think people just use religion as an excuse though, and they would be sick ****s either way. If they didn't have religion to blame stuff on, they would find something else.

Yes but the religion enables them by putting them in a position with the power to hurt others and it usually seems to cover up for them too. Religious organisations are definitely complicit. The Catholic Church is complicit.

With regard to the deaths they are hardly going to put down neglect and abuse as the cause but that's a lot of children in unmarked graves.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41200949

Absolute wickedness. Why does religion and abuse and mass murder so often go hand in hand?

Am I missing something?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

Am I missing something?

No, it often goes hand in hand.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

No, it often goes hand in hand.

Hmm, in the context of the article though?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

Hmm, in the context of the article though?

I already answered you, not playing, last response.

[Withano]

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I already answered you, not playing, last response.

Well are we supposed to discuss the article or the words in your OP, they're two very different conversations.

[Cherie]

Infant mortality in England and Wales peaked in the 1890s at a tremendously high rate of approximately 150 deaths per 1000 births. These statistics demonstrate that, for both the adults and children that family historians study, the world was a dangerous place! The situation today is, of course, much improved.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Infant mortality in England and Wales peaked in the 1890s at a tremendously high rate of approximately 150 deaths per 1000 births. These statistics demonstrate that, for both the adults and children that family historians study, the world was a dangerous place! The situation today is, of course, much improved.

So the deaths at this and other establishments like it can be forgiven for stockpiling the corpses of hundreds of children? The article said most of the bodies were pre 1930...not all.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So the deaths at this and other establishments like it can be forgiven for stockpiling the corpses of hundreds of children? The article said most of the bodies were pre 1930...not all.

ok what's your point? It was still an era of poverty and early death

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So the deaths at this and other establishments like it can be forgiven for stockpiling the corpses of hundreds of children? The article said most of the bodies were pre 1930...not all.

One of them at least is from 1961.

Different times does not really wash with me,some Nuns could be really horrible individuals and don't let us get started on child abuse across the board as to both Nuns and Priests.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

We are often told that you can't blame religion for the actions of some followers so why does this kind of thing seem to happen again and again? It's absolutely toxic.

For the same reason despicable things happen time and time again outside of religion... humanity is despicable.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

For the same reason despicable things happen time and time again outside of religion... humanity is despicable.

That's a good point too Marsh,as to some of humanity anyway.

However religious orders run services should be a place,I feel should be anyway , where children and even people are kept safe and respected.

Hearing of this and as was shown on the news tonight, the disrespect of unmarked mass graves,should be a disgrace.
Especially when further up from said mass graves are the detailed,tidy and well cleaned headstones of the deceased Nuns.

Religious orders,just about all of them, should show example of decency and respect for individuals, children and adults, especially however any entrusted to their care.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That's a good point too Marsh,as to some of humanity anyway.

However religious orders run services should be a place,I feel should be anyway , where children and even people are kept safe and respected.

Hearing of this and as was shown on the news tonight, the disrespect of unmarked mass graves,should be a disgrace.
Especially when further up from said mass graves are the detailed,tidy and well cleaned headstones of the deceased Nuns.

Religious orders,just about all of them, should show example of decency and respect for individuals, children and adults, especially however any entrusted to their care.

Oh, certainly. That goes without saying I think.

I just think it's reductive to reduce it to "Why does this keep on happening in religion?" when things keep on happening in the world, religion or no.

Us humans should be loving and accepting of one another but it eludes us because humanity can be the most dangerous and disgusting thing.