[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where did I suggest you had been?... :/

You suggested it was a 'go to' response for some ( apparently the members with a certain 'leaning')

That is unfair and untrue, in turn you have taken it upon yourself to defend members whose comments can and are considered xenophobic and/or racist.
Mine is maybe due to my 'leaning'....what's your excuse?...

Due to your bleeding heart and trying to force the world to think the same way as you.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Due to your bleeding heart and trying to force the world to think the same way as you.

Maybe your debating skills could do with improving too you're coming across as rude and personally offensive.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where did I suggest you had been?... :/

You suggested it was a 'go to' response for some ( apparently the members with a certain 'leaning')

That is unfair and untrue, in turn you have taken it upon yourself to defend members whose comments can and are considered xenophobic and/or racist.
Mine is maybe due to my 'leaning'....what's your excuse?...

You quoted my post, if you just wanted to make a general comment on the thread no need to quote me, if you quote me then I assume you are talking about me

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Maybe your debating skills could do with improving too you're coming across as rude and personally offensive.

Says you who keeps calling people racists and xenophobes. You need more evidence than you have to try and label people the way you do. If that is not rude and personally offensive - there is something wrong somewhere.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Pompous post. Always blame everyone but the actual terrorists - It's the fault of the potential victim's attitudes especially if those being shot, stabbed or blown to kingdom come voted for Brexit or don't want thousands of unchecked economic migrants forcing their way on to their shores.

Wake up this is an issue all over Europe and the West not just in Britain. Everyone has had enough and don't want to take any more refuges/economic migrants whatever YOU choose to call them because of all the problems it causes.

Personally I think that those so keen to force all these unchecked people, some of which we know are terrorists, on the rest of the country are indirectly responsible for the carnage they cause.

Pompous?... I wouldn't say so, I would say you were pompous for suggesting I need to 'wake up' I am perfectly awake thank you.

Again I haven't called anyone anything, my view is simply that the increased threat is due to the increased conflict and the reactions of or govt, the media and the public to an extent to it.

For every action there is a reaction, that is simply a fact.
I don't condone it and I don't want it to continue obviously but as been seen when there is conflict anywhere it spills out into the wider world, what is happening is that innocent people are being victimised due to their religion and/or culture and that is wrong.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Says you who keeps calling people racists and xenophobes. You need more evidence than you have to try and label people the way you do. If that is not rude and personally offensive - there is something wrong somewhere.

I haven't labelled anyone anything...There have been no accusations made by myself.

Should you or anyone however say something that is racist or xenophobic I would have no problem whatsoever challenging that. And I fully intend to continue doing so.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

You quoted my post, if you just wanted to make a general comment on the thread no need to quote me, if you quote me then I assume you are talking about me

I quoted to highlight your 'go to response' comment, that infers there is never a legitimate argument to be made in instances where there is an accusation of racism or xenophobia, that is not true.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I haven't labelled anyone anything...There have been no accusations made by myself.

Should you or anyone however say something that is racist or xenophobic I would have no problem whatsoever challenging that. And I fully intend to continue doing so.

Ditto.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It does no harm for people to be generally more alert. It's when wandering around with our heads in the clouds that most accidents happen. In crowded cities, people should be alert to what's going on around them.

I think most of us are generally more alert. Like I’ve already said, I’m watchful of abandoned packages and low-flying planes but what else should I be watchful of? A woman wearing the Burqa? A middle eastern looking man with a beard? men coming out of a mosque?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Or demonstrate and petition...thats what ive started to do

Petition against what exactly? against the lack of watchfulness by MI5?

I find it strange that there’s enough police to investigate hate crimes on the internet, but not enough to monitor a guy on their watch list shuttling back and forth between the UK and Tripoli. Why is it that football hooligans are banned from traveling to certain games and have to hand in their passports when England plays abroad, yet the Manchester bomber who was a person of interest in counter-surveillance can travel to and from Libya without much observation?
Remember The Jihadist Next Door? One of the terrorists was openly waving an ISIS flag and spouting fundamentalist and ISIS rhetoric. He announced he was a Jihadist and an ISIS recruiter right there, in front of the Channel 4 cameras but nobody did anything about him until he'd murdered 7 people and put another 48 in hospital.

And why is it they know exactly who and where to go within a few short hours of any attack?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I think most of us are generally more alert. Like I’ve already said, I’m watchful of abandoned packages and low-flying planes but what else should I be watchful of? A woman wearing the Burqa? A middle eastern looking man with a beard? men coming out of a mosque?

As for the rest, no

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Petition against what exactly? against the lack of watchfulness by MI5?

I find it strange that there’s enough police to investigate hate crimes on the internet, but not enough to monitor a guy on their watch list shuttling back and forth between the UK and Tripoli. Why is it that football hooligans are banned from traveling to certain games and have to hand in their passports when England plays abroad, yet the Manchester bomber who was a person of interest in counter-surveillance can travel to and from Libya without much observation?
Remember The Jihadist Next Door? One of the terrorists was openly waving an ISIS flag and spouting fundamentalist and ISIS rhetoric. He announced he was a Jihadist and an ISIS recruiter right there, in front of the Channel 4 cameras but nobody did anything about him until he'd murdered 7 people and put another 48 in hospital.

And why is it they know exactly who and where to go within a few short hours of any attack?

Because their hands are tied by endless claims of racism along the lines of Rotherham etc maybe?

This is incredible that the intelligence services are getting it in the neck for letting it happen..

Nearly all of these ****ers have been reported by someone, so it's either too wary of being sued, or too little manpower, or just an overwhelming number of attacks being planned...take your pick

the guy on the C4 documentary was probably so outrageous waving his flag openly he was put down as a nut job.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The only way we can stop terror is to stop participating in it.

The only way to stop terror is to stand up to it and free people from its control.

It's ludicrous to suggest that standing up to terrorism is participating in it. That sounds very like appeasing the terrorists in order not to bring terrorism to your doorstep. When it does blame those that stand up it it rather than those that practice it.

Your statement sounds like a statement based on fear to me. The old 'let's not get involved' mantra , turn a blind eye - self preservation.

https://www.thoughtco.com/is-iraq-a-democracy-2353046

Basically ISIS are Sunni Muslims pissed that their official persecution of the Shia Muslims in Iraq was thwarted. So you would rather have left them to it then!

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The only way to stop terror is to stand up to it and free people from its control.

It's ludicrous to suggest that standing up to terrorism is participating in it. That sounds very like appeasing the terrorists in order not to bring terrorism to your doorstep. When it does blame those that stand up it it rather than those that practice it.

Your statement sounds like a statement based on fear to me. The old 'let's not get involved' mantra , turn a blind eye - self preservation.

I don't know what you read when you read my words but you clearly didn't understand what I was saying.

Let me spell it out. When I say stop participating, what I mean is, let's stop trying to be the rulers of the world. Let's stop invading other countries because I'm not sure if you know this Brillo, but we have invaded and destroyed again and again and we will continue to do this again and again, under that evil heading, "For the greater good". We will destroy Iran because it has a valuable resource we want and the only thing stopping us right now, is Russia, but give it time. And the aftermath of those invasions is counter-invasion.

Look further than the end of your nose if you seriously want to stop terror attacks happening in this country. Don't just look at the terrorist, look at the terrorists.

As for fear, I fear western intent. I don't believe for a second that western governments give a crap about terrorist atrocities over here. Why would they when they so openly commit mass atrocities in other countries. Every time we have a terrorist act on western shores, it strengthens their reasoning for further invasions.

I fear people like you who play along with the Right-wing rhetoric and refuse to accept these attacks are anything other than an evil force who want us all to be Muslim.

[DemolitionRed]

And none of the above means I don't care about the innocents who are maimed and killed on our shores by terrorist acts. I see them as precious individual human lives embroiled and caught up, through no fault of their own, in something they/we have no control over.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The only way to stop terror is to stand up to it and free people from its control.

Oh yeh. That's worked so well up to now hasn't it.

Also, let me walk you through why that is dumb as simply as possible.
To some, we are the terrorists. If they have the same mindset as you, what happens next? They stand up to it as means to try to stop it. Then what's your mindset? Standing up to that by fighting more? What's their reaction gonna be?

And that's honestly your solution. Til when? Til one side surrenders? How many more deaths by terrorism in the country will it take before you feel as if this may not be the best technique?

I'm not sure if DR's solution will work, it's kind of unprecedented. But it can't be any worse. What others perceive as terrorism from the uk will cause more terrorism to the uk, and that's a continuous loop.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The only way we can stop terror is to stop participating in it.

So you think every terrorist attack in the West is due to our governments' actions abroad? And you place no blame on the individuals' indoctrination and extremism?

Naive.

Virtually none of the actual victims had any participation in "terrorism" abroad.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

So you think every terrorist attack in the West is due to our governments' actions abroad? And you place no blame on the individuals' indoctrination and extremism?

Naive.

Virtually none of the actual victims had any participation in "terrorism" abroad.

Probably thinks that's racist.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Alf

Probably thinks that's racist.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

And none of the above means I don't care about the innocents who are maimed and killed on our shores by terrorist acts. I see them as precious individual human lives embroiled and caught up, through no fault of their own, in something they/we have no control over.

That's the point though we do have some control - by not letting in thousands of undocumented economic migrants who once in often 'disappear'. Tightening our borders and generally being more careful who we let in is self-preservation.

[Alf]

I'm hearing that central London tube in bomb threat lockdown, Police sniffer dogs blocking off streets.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I don't know what you read when you read my words but you clearly didn't understand what I was saying.

Let me spell it out. When I say stop participating, what I mean is, let's stop trying to be the rulers of the world. Let's stop invading other countries because I'm not sure if you know this Brillo, but we have invaded and destroyed again and again and we will continue to do this again and again, under that evil heading, "For the greater good". We will destroy Iran because it has a valuable resource we want and the only thing stopping us right now, is Russia, but give it time. And the aftermath of those invasions is counter-invasion.

Look further than the end of your nose if you seriously want to stop terror attacks happening in this country. Don't just look at the terrorist, look at the terrorists.

As for fear, I fear western intent. I don't believe for a second that western governments give a crap about terrorist atrocities over here. Why would they when they so openly commit mass atrocities in other countries. Every time we have a terrorist act on western shores, it strengthens their reasoning for further invasions.

I fear people like you who play along with the Right-wing rhetoric and refuse to accept these attacks are anything other than an evil force who want us all to be Muslim.

You can spell it out all you like but your opinions are just that opinions. The West went into Iraq for many reasons including standing up to terrorism i.e. 911, preventing dictatorships and terrorists from developing the capabilities of producing WMD, to help enable democracy in Iraq against the tyranny of SH and the Sunni Muslims over Shia Muslims and the Kurds and as a warning of their superior strength. There were a lot of Muslims in Iraq wanting the West to intervene at the time as clearly the situation there was pretty intolerable for many.

Your constant distractions about 'valuable resources and oil' is simply your opinion not fact. That may/may not have been a minor consideration but it was hardly the overriding reason. Your brazen attempts to keep blaming the 'invasion' of the West rather than the mindsets of dictatorships and religion for the problems faced in the West today is opinion at best - certainly not fact.

I fear people like you who in their attempts to address perceived injustices have developed tunnel vision and see what they want to see and that is the big bad West.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Because their hands are tied by endless claims of racism along the lines of Rotherham etc maybe?

This is incredible that the intelligence services are getting it in the neck for letting it happen..

Nearly all of these ****ers have been reported by someone, so it's either too wary of being sued, or too little manpower, or just an overwhelming number of attacks being planned...take your pick

the guy on the C4 documentary was probably so outrageous waving his flag openly he was put down as a nut job.

These are exactly the kind of people that isis want they are ideal candidates for radicalisation as such they should be taken more seriously not less.
The claims of racism would be made by whom? Counter terrorism units don't take an advert out in the paper when they monitor individuals.

[Alf]

Not one

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...o-11186601.amp

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The only way to stop terror is to stand up to it and free people from its control.

It's ludicrous to suggest that standing up to terrorism is participating in it. That sounds very like appeasing the terrorists in order not to bring terrorism to your doorstep. When it does blame those that stand up it it rather than those that practice it.

Your statement sounds like a statement based on fear to me. The old 'let's not get involved' mantra , turn a blind eye - self preservation.

https://www.thoughtco.com/is-iraq-a-democracy-2353046

Basically ISIS are Sunni Muslims pissed that their official persecution of the Shia Muslims in Iraq was thwarted. So you would rather have left them to it then!

That was happening during the gulf war in the 90s, our subsequent intervention led to the destabilisation of that part of the world, initially we armed rebels and trained them these are now members of isis...

Instead of admitting to our part in the problem or govt have enabled the media to demonise ALL Muslims, personally I would say the reasoning is twofold as it serves a purpose in relation to Palestine too.