[jaxie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41331152

I was surprised not to see any threads about what is happening in with Spain and Catalan so thought I'd enter this story from today.

I think the situation with Spain and Catalan shows a very different side to a smaller country wanting to be independent than our own story with Scotland and to me emphasises that we are quite civilised and progressive, even among neighbours in the west. Spain's attitude to Catalan seems pretty dictatorial. Reports like this one make me wonder how far Spain will go to prevent the referendum.

[Kizzy]

Yes it's easier to spot when governments are overtly corrupt, you would think that following the recent terrorist activity in Barcelona there would be a degree of unity from spain no 'Je suis Catalan' is there?.....very odd.

'Trampling democracy?

Reports have been coming out of Catalonia that the Spanish government has:

Threatened 700 Catalan Mayors with arrest if they agree to hold the referendum in their jurisdictions.
Ordered armed military police to raid print works, in an attempt to destroying voting materials. The police seized over 1.3 million pieces of campaign literature.
Shut down the official independence referendum website.
Warned Catalonia it will take control of its finances if the referendum isn’t stopped.
Also threatened newspaper and TV editors with court action, if they publish or broadcast material relating to the referendum.
As Al Jazeera reported, the Catalan President, Carles Puigdemont, has said of the referendum:

We have the full force of the state against us… Faced with judicial proceedings and threats… the regional government is more determined than ever…
But Spain’s Conservative Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy, said laws passed by the regional government connected to the referendum were “illegal and anti-democratic”, adding:

There will not be a referendum… It’s my duty to preserve national unity…'

https://www.thecanary.co/global/2017...sa-may-silent/

[jaxie]

The EU is also silent and this is more their business than May's. The UK has already set examples that we don't treat our devolved partners in the way Spain is behaving towards Catalonia. That speaks far more loudly than words from May.

[Tom4784]

I hope the referendum goes ahead as planned, the lengths the Spanish government are going to prevent it are shocking.

[Denver]

Shame as Spain is a lovely country to visit

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes it's easier to spot when governments are overtly corrupt, you would think that following the recent terrorist activity in Barcelona there would be a degree of unity from spain no 'Je suis Catalan' is there?.....very odd.

'Trampling democracy?

Reports have been coming out of Catalonia that the Spanish government has:

Threatened 700 Catalan Mayors with arrest if they agree to hold the referendum in their jurisdictions.
Ordered armed military police to raid print works, in an attempt to destroying voting materials. The police seized over 1.3 million pieces of campaign literature.
Shut down the official independence referendum website.
Warned Catalonia it will take control of its finances if the referendum isn’t stopped.
Also threatened newspaper and TV editors with court action, if they publish or broadcast material relating to the referendum.
As Al Jazeera reported, the Catalan President, Carles Puigdemont, has said of the referendum:

We have the full force of the state against us… Faced with judicial proceedings and threats… the regional government is more determined than ever…
But Spain’s Conservative Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy, said laws passed by the regional government connected to the referendum were “illegal and anti-democratic”, adding:

There will not be a referendum… It’s my duty to preserve national unity…'

https://www.thecanary.co/global/2017...sa-may-silent/

They did actually as I saw symbols in Andalucia when I was there in support of Barcelona

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

They did actually as I saw symbols in Andalucia when I was there in support of Barcelona

Not from the Spanish govt Cherie....If you read the sentence in context it should be obvious I wasn't talking about the Spanish people.

[Toy Soldier]

To be fair, from what I know of Spanish politics, it's not really directly comparable to the situation in the UK. I believe Spain is made up of several smaller regions like Catalonia and many of them have independence movements, albeit with less support than there is in Catalonia, but still, there are many small regions and so the overarching Spanish govt. is terrified of a precedent being set.

If Scotland left the UK, the rUK would still be a comparably large country with 60 million people. Even England alone is over 50m if the UK split entirely. Spain, on the other hand, if every part that aspires towards independence got independence, would be fragmented into several smaller parts and there would be no real "greater Spain" at all.

Not that I personally think this is a bad thing. My overall opinion is that smaller states with more localised government - working in cooperation with each other - work best for most people's comfort and prosperity. Larger countries with huge centralised governments work for the elite. Hence many powerful people being afraid of the trend.

[Nicky91]

the political rain in spain

[Underscore]

Just.
let.
them.
have.
the.
****ing.
referendum.

[Kizzy]

One question... On this issue, where is the news?



https://www.thecanary.co/global/2017...ack-democracy/

[Northern Monkey]

I definitely think they should be allowed a legal and fair independence referendum.One problem though according to one fella on the BBC was that ballot boxes were apparently being run by “separatists” who were letting people vote multiple times.He said this referendum was a sham.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

The EU is also silent and this is more their business than May's. The UK has already set examples that we don't treat our devolved partners in the way Spain is behaving towards Catalonia. That speaks far more loudly than words from May.

Well yes, quite. Its nothing at all to do with May tbh, so not sure why she appears to be being criticized for staying out of it. Whilst the canary is a change from the usual right wing bias we see from most...at times its fairly silly in its reporting as seemingly everything is May/the Tories fault in some way, and if its not their actual fault, then they are criticized for something in connection to each story

I do think its something that Spain need to sort out themselves, without noses being poked in by everyone else

I actually know nothing at all about this whole thing, this is the first I have heard about it. Will read up.

[Tom4784]

Canary is as bad as Breitbart, no news source that is skewed too far in one direction can ever be reliable.

[jaxie]

http://news.sky.com/story/amp/illega...lence-11062371

Quite shocking watching it unfold from the sidelines. Spain seems to be acting very dictatorial and you get the feeling it could get nasty with all the armed police involved.

[VanessaFeltz.]

thats disgusting

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Canary is as bad as Breitbart, no news source that is skewed too far in one direction can ever be reliable.

The political affiliation is irrelevant when you use as a gauge the truthfulness of the reportage... Basically if what they say is correct then what does it matter which way they lean?

When the 'mainstream' media in the UK is the mail, BBC, times and telegraph is it so surprising that there is an alternative? Daring to highlight the anti democratic action of the Spanish govt when nobody else would... sorry Dezzy but you would never see that in breitbart, that comparison couldn't be more wrong as they are effectively polar opposites.

[MTVN]

It's a pointless exercise now because no one who opposes independence (still most Catalans) is going to defy the central government and the police to say so. So there will be a result of something like 98% in favour from the few who managed to vote and it will be proclaimed as a strong show of support but will in reality mean nothing

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The political affiliation is irrelevant when you use as a gauge the truthfulness of the reportage... Basically if what they say is correct then what does it matter which way they lean?

When the 'mainstream' media in the UK is the mail, BBC, times and telegraph is it so surprising that there is an alternative? Daring to highlight the anti democratic action of the Spanish govt when nobody else would... sorry Dezzy but you would never see that in breitbart, that comparison couldn't be more wrong as they are effectively polar opposites.

Confirmation Bias exists on both websites because they are both extreme in their political leanings, you can't get unbiased reporting from a website that leans far too much in one direction.

You can't condemn something like Breitbart but then be accepting of what is essentially it's Left Wing mirror in the Canary. I refuse to pay attention to either since agenda comes before news for both of them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Confirmation Bias exists on both websites because they are both extreme in their political leanings, you can't get unbiased reporting from a website that leans far too much in one direction.

You can't condemn something like Breitbart but then be accepting of what is essentially it's Left Wing mirror in the Canary. I refuse to pay attention to either since agenda comes before news for both of them.

There is bias in all media the accusation that the canary is a mirror of breitbart is unwarranted in that as I said earlier there is nothing that has been stated in the canary that can be debunked, the facts are there as stated by reputable pollsters and statisticians. Whatever leaning the site has that remains the factual basis underpinning whatever the given issue is.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There is bias in all media the accusation that the canary is a mirror of breitbart is unwarranted in that as I said earlier there is nothing that has been stated in the canary that can be debunked, the facts are there as stated by reputable pollsters and statisticians. Whatever leaning the site has that remains the factual basis underpinning whatever the given issue is.

You should read them all and then you can make your own opinion. You should particularly read the ones you don't like, then you can get the information to give reasons why they are wrong.

I don't believe you read Breitbart (I could be wrong, but don't think so) but you always have an opinion on it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Alf

You should read them all and then you can make your own opinion. You should particularly read the ones you don't like, then you can get the information to give reasons why they are wrong.

I don't believe you read Breitbart (I could be wrong, but don't think so) but you always have an opinion on it.

How on earth did this thread morph into yet another right V left wing volley? And why yet again are my politics hauled under a microscope?...

How about we stick to the topic in discussion which is the escalating violence in Catalonia, the UK media can no longer ignore it seemingly.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7976721.html

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There is bias in all media the accusation that the canary is a mirror of breitbart is unwarranted in that as I said earlier there is nothing that has been stated in the canary that can be debunked, the facts are there as stated by reputable pollsters and statisticians. Whatever leaning the site has that remains the factual basis underpinning whatever the given issue is.

Just like Breitbart, Canary will cherry pick stories and stats to suit it's political stance. Both are terrible websites that shouldn't be trusted.

[Greg!]

They're literally dragging people out of polling stations and chucking them onto the street. Disgusting

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Just like Breitbart, Canary will cherry pick stories and stats to suit it's political stance. Both are terrible websites that shouldn't be trusted.

I'm not sure what you mean here, the canary has on it's UK page up to date relevant reports on a wide range of topics including politics, the NHS, homelessness and issues relating to the DWP... I fail to see why you find that so distasteful seeing as social justice is a topic usually of relative importance to you.

Never mind, if you don't find the site useful then you are welcome to that view