[jaxie]

The issue:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/b...ad-racist.html

The model comments:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-not-a-victim

Khanyi Mbau comments:

https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-l...t-dove-advert/

Three links to read. What do you think is it dreadful racism or over reacting?
Why is it offensive for a black girl to turn into a white girl but not offensive for a white girl to turn into an Asian girl? What's your view?

[Denver]

Proper racism close them down

[Oliver_W]

Did a white girl turn into an Asian girl in one of your linked articles? Cba to open them as I've heard about the Dove thing

But yeah, I can't see how the advert got cleared. Even if it wasn't meant to be racist, how did anyone possibly think it was appropriate for television?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Did a white girl turn into an Asian girl in one of your linked articles? Cba to open them as I've heard about the Dove thing

But yeah, I can't see how the advert got cleared. Even if it wasn't meant to be racist, how did anyone possibly think it was appropriate for television?

Yes that was one of the reasons I posted the last article it has the full ad.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

The issue:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/b...ad-racist.html

The model comments:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-not-a-victim

Khanyi Mbau comments:

https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-l...t-dove-advert/

Three links to read. What do you think is it dreadful racism or over reacting?
Why is it offensive for a black girl to turn into a white girl but not offensive for a white girl to turn into an Asian girl? What's your view?

because it's not a "thing" like black being dirty is I suppose.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by jaxie

The issue:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/b...ad-racist.html

The model comments:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-not-a-victim

Khanyi Mbau comments:

https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-l...t-dove-advert/

Three links to read. What do you think is it dreadful racism or over reacting?
Why is it offensive for a black girl to turn into a white girl but not offensive for a white girl to turn into an Asian girl? What's your view?

Because they are basically saying black people are dirty and with a bit of soap will come up white

[y.winter]

The "changing-shirt-becoming-someone-else" FX is not new on television, it has already been done in sports ads and included black/asian/white/latin people, metamorphosing into each other. It's always the same unity message of "we're all in this together, any kind of human being", and this was the same idea in the dove ad.
I find the whole drama around it very obnoxious and OTT (and I'm not surprised the screenshots were taken out of context). People need to calm down (and overall find better things to do online), not everything that includes white and black people is deliberately racist - some are, but not every little thing.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by y.winter

The "changing-shirt-becoming-someone-else" FX is not new on television, it has already been done in sports ads and included black/asian/white/latin people, metamorphosing into each other. It's always the same message of "we're all in this together, any kind of human being", and this was the same idea in the dove ad.
I find the whole drama around it very obnoxious and OTT (and I'm not surprised the screenshots were taken out of context). People need to calm down (and overall find better things to do online), not everything that includes white and black people is deliberately racist - some are, but not every little thing.

I'm sure that it wasn't Doves intention to come across racist, that wouldn't be smart for their company but from what I read of the article it used to be a "thing" to say black people were dirty and white people were clean so they should have been a bit more careful imo:

But the transition from the black woman to the white women — compiled into a static collage by a social media user — evoked a long-running racist trope in soap advertising: a “dirty” black person cleansed into whiteness. (Among other examples was an ad by the N. K. Fairbank Company, which was in business from 1875 to 1921, that featured a white child asking a black child, “Why doesn’t your mamma wash you with Fairy soap?”)

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

The issue:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/b...ad-racist.html

The model comments:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-not-a-victim

Khanyi Mbau comments:

https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-l...t-dove-advert/

Three links to read. What do you think is it dreadful racism or over reacting?
Why is it offensive for a black girl to turn into a white girl but not offensive for a white girl to turn into an Asian girl? What's your view?

Having read the articles and heard the intentions of the company as well as the views of the black model featured in the advert think it is the usual overreaction by a few to any suggestion of colour. In my opinion it is those people that seem to see ‘colour’ as a dirty word and see negativity where it was not intended and look for any excuse to throw the ‘racist’ allegation around.

The black model felt good about the ad and felt she was doing something positive for black women until a certain way of thinking tainted it and put a nasty slant on what seems to me a well intentioned ad. Why would any company risk the ‘racist’ label that could damage their reputation and commercial success? It wouldn’t make much sense. I think it is a combination of over-sensitivity by some and/or agenda driven drivel by those PC zealots amongst us.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Because they are basically saying black people are dirty and with a bit of soap will come up white

No they aren’t. That is just what some would have us believe.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Why would any company risk the ‘racist’ label that could damage their reputation and commercial success? It wouldn’t make much sense.

Viral marketing. Any publicity is good publicity, etc.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Viral marketing. Any publicity is good publicity, etc.

Do you reckon? Even racism? Trump might be stocking up eh? Can Dove get all that Orange off though

[user104658]

I would have given them the benefit of the doubt and assume that someone just "didn't think"... however... #1 the fact that the shirt also changed from brown to white makes it pretty conclusive that they were well aware that this was a "skin colour thing" when making the ad and, also, I don't believe for one second that NO ONE at their HQ didn't say "Accidentally or otherwise this has racist undertones and won't go down well". Someone pointed it out, somewhere along the line, before it went public. No real question about that. They chose to run it anyway and that says a lot in itself.

Not about them "being racist" - but just as I said above. They knew it would be controversial, they knew the press and social media would run with it. It's free advertising.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Do you reckon? Even racism? Trump might be stocking up eh? Can Dove get all that Orange off though

To be totally blunt; the people who are suggestible enough to be influenced by advertising (and therefore, the target of the ad) are the same people that will say "lol PC gone mad it's not racist nothing about race in it at all ooh looks good actually I'm away to buy some Dove".

As for Trump... I don't think Dove is going to cut through that . he needs this beauty;

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Viral marketing. Any publicity is good publicity, etc.

Not in the current PC obsessed market it isn’t.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not in the current PC obsessed market it isn’t.

I think you'll find we're 6+ months into an era of post-PC backlash where it will play perfectly .

Also

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"lol PC gone mad it's not racist nothing about race in it at all ooh looks good actually I'm away to buy some Dove".

[user104658]

But, in all seriousness, Vanish pre-wash bar is ****ing brilliant.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be totally blunt; the people who are suggestible enough to be influenced by advertising (and therefore, the target of the ad) are the same people that will say "lol PC gone mad it's not racist nothing about race in it at all ooh looks good actually I'm away to buy some Dove".

As for Trump... I don't think Dove is going to cut through that . he needs this beauty;

Yeah I guess that makes sense

PS I agree vanish is amazing

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think you'll find we're 6+ months into an era of post-PC backlash where it will play perfectly .

Also

Not a bad thing as PC is a dirty word and has become like a cancer spreading out of control. We need a cure such as a good dose of feet on the ground commonsense. I won’t hold my breath on here though - it’s simply not fashionable enough!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not a bad thing as PC is a dirty word and has become like a cancer spreading out of control.

You're the only one around here using it.

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm sure that it wasn't Doves intention to come across racist, that wouldn't be smart for their company but from what I read of the article it used to be a "thing" to say black people were dirty and white people were clean so they should have been a bit more careful imo:

But the transition from the black woman to the white women — compiled into a static collage by a social media user — evoked a long-running racist trope in soap advertising: a “dirty” black person cleansed into whiteness. (Among other examples was an ad by the N. K. Fairbank Company, which was in business from 1875 to 1921, that featured a white child asking a black child, “Why doesn’t your mamma wash you with Fairy soap?”)

Making a connection between the Dove ad and the old soap ad is a populist move from internet-nation. With the latter being an explicitly racist ad, and the first one just a pure interpretation of a few people online.
Does racism exist? yes. Shouting "RACISM!" about every little thing and looking at things and thinking how can they be offensive - well that's exploiting the equality message as far as I'm concerned.

If the Dove black-to-white(-to-other-woman-but-let's-not-ruin-the-racism-illusion) woman is racist, then I don't want to begin with the black-man-to-white-woman/woman-to-man/latin-to-asian in this ad:

Youtube video

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by y.winter

Making a connection between the Dove ad and the old soap ad is a populist move from internet-nation. With the latter being an explicitly racist ad, and the first one just a pure interpretation of a few people online.
Does racism exist? yes. Shouting "RACISM!" about every little thing and looking at things and thinking how can they be offensive - well that's exploiting the equality message as far as I'm concerned.

If the Dove black-to-white(-to-other-woman-but-let's-not-ruin-the-racism-illusion) woman is racist, then I don't want to begin with the black-man-to-white-woman/woman-to-man/latin-to-asian in this ad:

Youtube video

I'm not saying I think it's racist, I was just saying you would think a big company like Dove would have thought it through better, having said that though I think maybe TS is right and it could have been a calculated move

[user104658]

Originally Posted by y.winter

Making a connection between the Dove ad and the old soap ad is a populist move from internet-nation. With the latter being an explicitly racist ad, and the first one just a pure interpretation of a few people online.
Does racism exist? yes. Shouting "RACISM!" about every little thing and looking at things and thinking how can they be offensive - well that's exploiting the equality message as far as I'm concerned.

The point though isn't even whether or not it is genuinely racist, or whether the reaction is over the top, or whether the backlash is warranted. Any layperson - whether you think the ad is OK or not - could have predicted the backlash against this ad... therefore, someone at Dove (probably EVERYONE at Dove?) could also have predicted this backlash. But now they're acting all " BIG SUPPRISE didn't see this coming" now that it's out? . Ok.

Even if they were saying "We expected this but stand by our ad which does not have any racist intent" that would be one thing. But they're acting like they had no idea people would make a thing of it! It's nonsense. Of course they knew. Therefore, what is their intent?

[Northern Monkey]

So from what I understand the actual full ad is not racist.The black woman turns into a white woman who then turns into an Asian woman.Nothing wrong there.I think the problem is either a shorter edited version or screenshot collage that someone has done which just shows a black woman turning into a white woman on a soap ad which yes in itself could definitely be seen as racist.If Dove didn’t make this screenshot then they have nothing to apologise for.Anyone can edit stuff these days.
However if it was Dove who put a shorter version out for social media without the Asian lady in then it was very careless as it lacks context and would appear racist for sure.It may just be terrible editing.

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm not saying I think it's racist, I was just saying you would think a big company like Dove would have thought it through better, having said that though I think maybe TS is right and it could have been a calculated move

Oh, no, I wasn't saying that you see it as racism, I was talking in general about the internet reaction, in relation to your post. Sorry if it came across like that.