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25-11-2017, 02:28 PM | #51 | |||
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Many elderly physically and mentally disadvantaged people have no relatives. For those that do, should we insist they care for those elderly relative? What if they never got along? what if they live long distances away? What if they don't have a caring nature?. What if that family member has a record of financial abuse? What if the user has complex needs and the relative has no formal training?
Nearly everyone who uses social care has to financially contribute. If a person (and they don't have to be elderly) come out of hospital, can't manage and have nobody, the government has to provide a free service for a limited time. During that time (normally 2 weeks) an enabling team encourages that person towards independence. If that person isn't enabled within that designated time and its proven that they can't manage on their own and can't afford private care, a financial assessments is carried out and funds for private care are applied for and paid for by the local council. The local council will have to pay for their care through the private sector, a sector which is much more expensive than the old style of social care. Private care has the monopoly in all of this. Fortunately, under the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990, the government have a legal obligation of care. If they didn't then we'd be like America, with the poor elderly abandoned and forgotten.
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25-11-2017, 03:02 PM | #52 | |||
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Any chance you could read what I have written ....I said where people CAN they should help shoulder the burden of caring whether that be providing time or paying towards extra hours for carers on top of what the state provides, thereby freeing up hospital beds and care home spaces for those who have no family or are no longer in touch, too many people want to pass the buck of the care of their relatives onto the state instead of taking some responsibility themselves,
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25-11-2017, 04:07 PM | #53 | |||
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The problem with your suggestion is, its not reliable. There are plenty of sons and daughters, family members and even neighbors who do this. They don't do it because its a legal requirement; they do it for three reasons, because they can, because they care or because they feel its a moral obligation but Its wholly voluntary and often unreliable. I couldn't look after my parents if god forbid, then needed that care. I could pop in a couple of times a week but they wouldn't want me to give up a career I've worked hard for to make that hour... often two hour journey to them once or twice a day. That doesn't mean I don't care or I'm passing the buck. Most families don't live in the same town, never mind the same street as their parents. Most families can't afford to give up work or become a part-timer so they can sit mum on a commode when she needs to. If most couples can't afford to cut their working hours when their children are pre-school, how can they afford to do that when their parents need them?
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25-11-2017, 05:10 PM | #54 | |||
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Last edited by Cherie; 25-11-2017 at 05:10 PM. |
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25-11-2017, 06:48 PM | #55 | |||
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I don't want my kids burdened with me if anything happened to hubby, fortunately barring very bad luck I will be long gone before him. If they want our fortune then it would pay them to put some care in, rather than paying for a home. Everyones circumstances are different, but if my kids have ever needed anything over the years, we have been there for them, dropping our plans etc. My daughter is home for xmas and is looking into staying up here for up to 6 months so she can help her dad juggle the refurb of the bungalow and looking after me, we haven't asked her to but she won't hear of any argument against it, she is packing her very well paid job that she loves down south up and will hopefully get some supply work as and if it comes up. All a question of give and take |
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25-11-2017, 06:49 PM | #56 | |||
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What we need is government funded respite care facilities. This would speed up hospital beds whilst still giving much needed enabling care to those who need it. What happens atm is, an elderly person is hospitalized after, say a pelvic injury. Social services within the local council are contacted and agree to take her on, often on the day she is discharged home and even though that person is on red alert and will see someone fairly quickly, she is still going to arrive home, often to an empty house, with no immediate equipment or facility to help her. If she has a family that has arrived to help... great. If she doesn't, she must feel very frightened and alone. The tragic thing is, many of these people have worked hard all their lives. They've paid their taxes and NI and they've saved enough money for a rainy day and hope to leave something for their family but are suddenly faced with not having enough or losing it all. Domiciliary care has become so expensive, even though the actual carers get a pittance, that the elderly people who need that care, often choose to manage without it and that in itself is a huge problem. We are all hopefully going to grow old. None of us know if we will need home care in the future but wouldn't it be awful if we reached a stage where that care comes subject to affordability?
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25-11-2017, 06:59 PM | #57 | |||
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No, it's not a good thing neither is it a positive thing... how are we to pay for our public services, NHS, welfare and social care with no taxes? How are they going to make back the money they just lost lifting people out of tax...flog more arms to the saudis? They get a percentage from central government too
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25-11-2017, 07:01 PM | #58 | |||
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25-11-2017, 07:06 PM | #59 | |||
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Care in the community.... LOL care in a private unregulated nursing home from some unqualified 0hr contract part timer, and that's if you can afford it if not it's, yes you've guessed it be sent home to die or bedblock.
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25-11-2017, 07:31 PM | #60 | |||
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It is up to the individual to decide what they want out of life, and what they can or can't sacrifice. |
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26-11-2017, 09:06 AM | #61 | |||
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26-11-2017, 09:21 AM | #62 | |||
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26-11-2017, 09:56 AM | #63 | |||
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I can only speak from my own experience, and things like the NHS are great for some aspects of care, and absolutely dreadful for other aspects. Family members are the only ones that can provide certain types of care at its best, public services just can't do it. So there just isn't a generalised solution for everyone, and many just wouldn't want it. Of course there should be some default level of care that the state provides, but beyond that its up to individual families
Last edited by bitontheslide; 26-11-2017 at 09:58 AM. |
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26-11-2017, 10:54 AM | #64 | |||
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26-11-2017, 01:56 PM | #65 | |||
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26-11-2017, 01:58 PM | #66 | |||
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26-11-2017, 03:20 PM | #67 | |||
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Unfortunately there isn't the same amount of money or anywhere near enough safeguarding available for people with mental illness or the ailing elderly. Health teams recognize that a person centered approach is the way forward, which is great, but they aren't given anything like the same funds to train staff or facilitate those needing good support.
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26-11-2017, 03:24 PM | #68 | |||
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Everything needs to be geared around promoting independence. Yes, its lovely for families to step in or to even go and live with their adult children but many elderly people don't want that, regardless of how well they get along with their children, because its giving up their independence.
After my grandma died, my grandfather went to live with my parents. They had enough room to set up an on-suite bedroom and a small living room for him. What they did though, was take him away from his familiar surroundings. The very surroundings where he'd lived, loved and laughed with his life partner. He never complained and he was grateful but he only lived for one more year and that year was filled with a sense of loss and sadness. No matter how good family are with an elderly parent, taking away their 'sense' of independance isn't always in their favor.
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26-11-2017, 07:13 PM | #69 | |||
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Right let's have a real life scenario, your mother in law just got diagnosed with dementia at 79, she wanders and has been brought home by the police 4 times in 3 months it is made apparent she can no longer live independently.
Your daughter is working in new Zealand and your son at uni in Newcastle. Your husband just got promoted to floor manager at marks and spencers homewares a 34 mile round trip from home, you work as a doctors receptionist a 16 mile round trip away. you remortgaged the house 3yrs ago for uni fees an extension and a cruise. The only other relative lives in Devon and you live in York.... what do you do?
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Last edited by Kizzy; 26-11-2017 at 07:15 PM. |
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26-11-2017, 07:59 PM | #70 | |||
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If she can no longer live independently then her dementia will probably mean she needs 24 hour care. Regardless of who lives where and works whatever hours. |
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26-11-2017, 08:38 PM | #71 | |||
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Obviously they are people who CAN'T who might be helped by more people who CAN it's not rocket science Although there does seem to be some issues understanding the word CAN It's not any different to people working to support those who are unable to work Last edited by Cherie; 26-11-2017 at 08:49 PM. |
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26-11-2017, 09:19 PM | #72 | |||
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So who can?... These elderly people have worked, and paid national insurance all their lives are they now expected to be treated like a burden on their family or whoever?
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26-11-2017, 09:29 PM | #73 | |||
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26-11-2017, 09:44 PM | #74 | |||
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They feel like a burden, it's documented now that the elderly are concerned about becoming a burden, I don't deny it's damning for our 'civilised' society to have it's aged population feeling this way but it doesn't make it any less true. It's not a bizarre rationale, that's just a way of curbing the debate by inferring one side is being irrational... I'm not in the scenario I painted earlier should an elderly or infirm relative be dependent on them as a family how would they cope?... That family is not dissimilar to 1000s of families across the UK. Is is such an ask to have a fully functional social care system to take the stress from both the elderly and the families?
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27-11-2017, 07:27 AM | #75 | |||
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The elephant in the room here is about the drop in living standards for those unfortunate enough to need ongoing care.
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