[MTVN]

Sorry to keep quoting this article but I do think it nails it:

What the hell is happening to us? How have we managed to fall this far? The ethical framework that surrounds our politics has morphed into a grotesque, sickening parody. Place a hand on a knee – you’re gone. Fiddle expenses – you’re gone. Tweet an inanity about someone’s breasts – you’re gone. Watch pornography – actually deny watching pornography – you’re still gone. But engage with an overtly racist Facebook group – something that would get you sacked from any other workplace in the country – and you can carry on, no questions asked. Potentially all the way to No 10.
...

For how much longer are we meant to suspend disbelief? Corbyn’s ten-year association with Holocaust denier Paul Eisen? ‘I didn’t know,’ he claimed, his office saying he opposed Eisen’s views. His association with anti-Semite Sheikh Raed Salah? ‘I didn’t know.’ His association with anti-Semite Reverend Stephen Sizer? ‘I didn’t know.’ His association with anti-Semites within Palestine Live? ‘I didn’t know.’


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...#ixzz59TY7KG3y

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's not about what he himself says, the problem is with the company he keeps. Of course 'anti-zionist' has always been a nice cover for those who are basically just anti-semitic

And using 'anti-Jewish' has always been a nice cover for those who are Zionist'.

I am not anti-Jewish in any way or form. You can accuse me all you like but that still doesn't make me anti-Jewish.

[DemolitionRed]

As a Jewish Labour member, I'm sick of anti-Semitism being used as a political weapon against Jeremy Corbyn http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7330891.html

How Israel lobby manufactured UK Labour Party’s anti-Semitism crisis

Smears of anti-Semitism against Corbyn started even before he was elected.
During his leadership campaign in the summer of 2015, the establishment media worked itself into a frenzy of anti-Corbyn hysteria, led more than any other paper by the liberal Guardian.
One of the recurring themes in this campaign was Corbyn’s long-standing support for Palestinian human rights.
Because of this, attempts were made to say outright, or to imply, that Corbyn was a secret anti-Semite, or that he associated with, or tolerated “notorious” anti-Semites.
Although these hit jobs gained some traction, they were soon debunked, and ultimately seemed to have little impact on the leadership election.

This dishonest theme is now being revisited. In February, the slow drip of anti-Semitism scare stories burst into a flood. https://electronicintifada.net/conte...m-crisis/16481

4 reasons the “anti-Semitism” attacks on Jeremy Corbyn are dishonest

The most shocking accusation, originating with The Daily Mail, is that Corbyn has “long standing links” with Paul Eisen, a “notorious” Holocaust denier involved in the group Deir Yassin Remembered.

Eisen certainly expresses disgusting views, denying the Nazi Holocaust took place and frequently expressing other anti-Semitic opinions on his blog.

However, his only real notoriety is for his attempts to infiltrate the Palestine solidarity movement.

Once it became clear what his views were, he was widely condemned and shunned by a movement which is fundamentally anti-racist in its basic principles. Indeed, even in the blog post which the Mail relied on as the source for its smear, Eisen admits that the movement has long “despised me.” https://electronicintifada.net/blogs...-are-dishonest

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Sorry to keep quoting this article but I do think it nails it:

What the hell is happening to us? How have we managed to fall this far? The ethical framework that surrounds our politics has morphed into a grotesque, sickening parody. Place a hand on a knee – you’re gone. Fiddle expenses – you’re gone. Tweet an inanity about someone’s breasts – you’re gone. Watch pornography – actually deny watching pornography – you’re still gone. But engage with an overtly racist Facebook group – something that would get you sacked from any other workplace in the country – and you can carry on, no questions asked. Potentially all the way to No 10.
...

For how much longer are we meant to suspend disbelief? Corbyn’s ten-year association with Holocaust denier Paul Eisen? ‘I didn’t know,’ he claimed, his office saying he opposed Eisen’s views. His association with anti-Semite Sheikh Raed Salah? ‘I didn’t know.’ His association with anti-Semite Reverend Stephen Sizer? ‘I didn’t know.’ His association with anti-Semites within Palestine Live? ‘I didn’t know.’


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...#ixzz59TY7KG3y

Ethics according to Dan Hodges?... lol

fyi Damian Green didn't lose his ministerial position for placing a hand on a knee.

[jet]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's not a question of 'if' there is proof though - there is proof across 150 pages of David Colliers report which can be read here: http://david-collier.com/exclusive-corbyn-antisemitism/

There's also screenshots showing Corbyn commenting on posts littered with questionable content and views like here



The reason the Tories and a lot of the press haven't made as much fuss about this is because of what Hodges says later on:



Basically this stuff doesn't cut through to people. They either dismiss it as Tory propaganda or assume it has been heavily exaggerated. There is so much evidence of questionable behaviour and dodgy contacts that Corbyn has been involved in but the truth is no one does seem to care. It has done nothing to dent Corbyns popularity so now even the Tories barely confront it anymore

Yes, its quite astounding how a percentage of otherwise seemingly intelligent, seemingly moral people close their minds, eyes and ears and completely deny ALL evidence and reports of all of Corbyn's many dodgy sympathies and behaviour.
It's a phenomena I've never seen before to this extent and its extremely disturbing.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's not a question of 'if' there is proof though - there is proof across 150 pages of David Colliers report which can be read here: http://david-collier.com/exclusive-corbyn-antisemitism/

There's also screenshots showing Corbyn commenting on posts littered with questionable content and views like here



The reason the Tories and a lot of the press haven't made as much fuss about this is because of what Hodges says later on:



Basically this stuff doesn't cut through to people. They either dismiss it as Tory propaganda or assume it has been heavily exaggerated. There is so much evidence of questionable behaviour and dodgy contacts that Corbyn has been involved in but the truth is no one does seem to care. It has done nothing to dent Corbyns popularity so now even the Tories barely confront it anymore

BIB, it's like the boy who cried wolf here, if the Tory Papers hadn't have gone for Corbyn over being a "traitor to the country" and "working for the IRA" and hadn't have gone so OTT on Labour with other leaders then alot of the people that you're saying aren't believing the true extent of this probably would've taken the report more seriously.

Personally I actually believe this report to be true, however it is annoying to see the Media keep going for Labour and Corbyn on controversies, but never seem to touch the Tories who must have Skeletons in the closet aswell.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

BIB, it's like the boy who cried wolf here, if the Tory Papers hadn't have gone for Corbyn over being a "traitor to the country" and "working for the IRA" and hadn't have gone so OTT on Labour with other leaders then alot of the people that you're saying aren't believing the true extent of this probably would've taken the report more seriously.

Personally I actually believe this report to be true, however it is annoying to see the Media keep going for Labour and Corbyn on controversies, but never seem to touch the Tories who must have Skeletons in the closet aswell.

We are talking about the leader of the labour party and potentially the PM. That's why it deserves attention. These are not skeletons in the closet, these are documented events that Corbyn has been involved in.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ethics according to Dan Hodges?... lol

fyi Damian Green didn't lose his ministerial position for placing a hand on a knee.

Michael Fallon did

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Michael Fallon did

Nope that was for admitting inappropriate behaviour towards Jane Merrick.
But it's great that you think it's ok to downplay members of the establishment being abusive towards women. :/

[DemolitionRed]

If I believed Corbyn was anti-Jewish for an iota of a second, I couldn't support him. People can ram propaganda slurs down my throat all they like. People can continue with their cacophony of hate but it still won't make it truth.

The press, if they were desperate enough, could convince some people that Martin Luther King was a spy for the ku klux Klan.

[jet]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Sorry to keep quoting this article but I do think it nails it:

What the hell is happening to us? How have we managed to fall this far? The ethical framework that surrounds our politics has morphed into a grotesque, sickening parody. Place a hand on a knee – you’re gone. Fiddle expenses – you’re gone. Tweet an inanity about someone’s breasts – you’re gone. Watch pornography – actually deny watching pornography – you’re still gone. But engage with an overtly racist Facebook group – something that would get you sacked from any other workplace in the country – and you can carry on, no questions asked. Potentially all the way to No 10.
...

For how much longer are we meant to suspend disbelief? Corbyn’s ten-year association with Holocaust denier Paul Eisen? ‘I didn’t know,’ he claimed, his office saying he opposed Eisen’s views. His association with anti-Semite Sheikh Raed Salah? ‘I didn’t know.’ His association with anti-Semite Reverend Stephen Sizer? ‘I didn’t know.’ His association with anti-Semites within Palestine Live? ‘I didn’t know.’


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...#ixzz59TY7KG3y

I doubt if many Corbyn supporters even reads these articles or any others for that matter because no matter what is revealed its all dismissed as Propaganda! Lies! - even actual events that occurred, archive documents and words from Corbyn's own mouth.

That article you linked was very interesting and it concludes:

The articles written in protest over their malign coup have been successfully dismissed as smears. The voices raised against them discounted as political agitation. The facts detailing their racist insurrection recast as ‘fake news’. So mark the moment. Bad things are about to happen in this country. And when they do, we had better not say we didn’t know. Or that we had no chance to stop them.

[DemolitionRed]

I did read that article and noted there wasn't a single reputable cite in it. Its just words of propaganda. The DM have been doing this since the second world war when they frightened British citizens by telling them that the incoming Jews were rapists, kidnappers and thieves and this same 'attractive to some' middle class paper who rarely stoop to 'real politics' are still doing it and still have an audience! Like the British government they have aligned themselves with Israel. Whilst Corbyn recognizes both Israel and Palestine, he refuses to celebrate the Balfour Declaration and that's why he's being continuously slurred in this ridiculous fashion.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-rea...ish-spokesman/

[jet]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I did read that article and noted there wasn't a single reputable cite in it. Its just words of propaganda. The DM have been doing this since the second world war when they frightened British citizens by telling them that the incoming Jews were rapists, kidnappers and thieves and this same 'attractive to some' middle class paper who rarely stoop to 'real politics' are still doing it and still have an audience! Like the British government they have aligned themselves with Israel. Whilst Corbyn recognizes both Israel and Palestine, he refuses to celebrate the Balfour Declaration and that's why he's being continuously slurred in this ridiculous fashion.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-rea...ish-spokesman/

Righty ho, if a Jewish Labour member says Corbyn isn't anti - semitic it must be true then...but if someone else says something negative its lies...

That same man sounds like he is wary of Corbyn as PM:

However, Hamilton, a parliamentary supporter of Labour Friends of Israel, also pointedly noted that

“there’s the whole tiers of the civil service that would be there to try and ensure you don’t do anything crazy.” He argued that a heavy domestic agenda would prevent Corbyn from fixating on Israel.

Oh dear...

[Livia]

There is MASSIVE Anti-Semitism in the Labour party. Everyone knows it... including the Labour Party themselves. Because they got Shami Chakrabarti to look into it... they cancelled out any kind of faith anyone might have had in her by making her a Baroness a few days after she reached her "Nothing to see here...." conclusion.

[Kizzy]

That's as there was nothing to see, had there been it would have come up either in the report or by someone analysing the report.
Where was the report following Aiden Burleys nazi 'party' or bojo surreptitiously singing 'Ode to Joy' in German...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2itd...ature=youtu.be

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

If I believed Corbyn was anti-Jewish for an iota of a second, I couldn't support him. People can ram propaganda slurs down my throat all they like. People can continue with their cacophony of hate but it still won't make it truth.

The press, if they were desperate enough, could convince some people that Martin Luther King was a spy for the ku klux Klan.

You can all it GUARANTEE that Martin Luther King would have been vilified by a large group if Twitter and Facebook had been around back then.

Not that I'm comparing Corbyn to MLK, just to illustrate, I suppose, that now that everyone has a platform, things are very different.

[Maru]

It also may be unexpected for some people (The link to prejudice here). Who would've thought anti-semiticism would make a return after Hitler and boil up to the surface like it seems to be doing in the West? It didn't seem possible in the US... I don't think racism or ethnocentrism will ever go away. There's always going to be some sort of prejudice out there, so I feel like anything that encourages racial profiling (including "corrective" prejudice) will likely exacerbate it... we had it right when we aiming for individuality. The moment we began to shift back to group identity, that seems like that is when **** started hitting the fan...

Do y'all have a choice who your candidates will be before an election? Like a primary...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Timeline


Labour and antisemitism

The context

Labour has been repeatedly blighted by charges that it has failed to tackle antisemitism in the party since Jeremy Corbyn became leader in 2015. Supporters of Corbyn, who has a long history of supporting Palestinians in their dispute with Israel, fear the issue is being used to undermine his leadership.
29 February 2016

Labour launches an inquiry into allegations of antisemitism and bullying after a fractious election of a youth representative to its ruling body.
10 March 2016

Labour expels far-left activist Gerry Downing, who had spoken of the need to “address the Jewish question”.
15 March 2016

Activist Vicki Kirby is suspended by the party for a second time over making alleged antisemitic tweets. She apparently suggested Adolf Hitler might be a “Zionist God” and that Jews had “big noses”.
22 March 2016

Labour suspends Khadim Hussain, a Labour councillor and former lord mayor of Bradford, after he shared a Facebook post that said “your school education system only tells you about Anne Frank and the 6 million Zionists that were killed by Hitler". He later quit the party.
25 April 2016

Naz Shah, the Labour MP for Bradford West, apologises for writing a series of antisemitic posts on Facebook including arguing for Israel’s population to be ‘transported’ out of the Middle East. She also resigns as PPS to John McDonnell and after sustained pressure is suspended from the party a day later.
27 April 2016

Labour suspends, but does not expel, former London mayor Ken Livingstone, after making offensive comments about Hitler supporting Zionism while defending Shah.
29 June 2016

A two-month inquiry by Shami Chakrabarti, ordered by Corbyn, urges Labour members to avoid abusive language and references to Hitler and Holocaust metaphors. It is criticised as being too soft on the issue and regarded as compromised because Chakrabarti had just accepted a peerage.
2 October 2016

Jackie Walker is removed as vice-chair of Momentum after criticising Holocaust Memorial Day but is allowed to remain on its steering committee. She was earlier suspended by the party for questioning why Holocaust Memorial Day did not recognise other genocides.
15 October 2016

The home affairs select committee accuses Labour of incompetence in dealing with antisemitism and helping to create a safe space for people with “vile attitudes towards Jewish people”.
3 April 2017

Livingstone again avoids expulsion from the party after a disciplinary panel rules he should be suspended for another year over comments about antisemitism, Hitler and Zionism. Britain’s chief rabbi, Ephraim Mirvis, accuses Labour of failing the Jewish community by not expelling Livingstone.
16 September 2017

Corbyn backs a party rule change, put forward by the Jewish Labour Movement, that takes tougher line on antisemitic abuse.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...facebook-group

[DemolitionRed]

I didn't find these words in the link you posted. I found them on this site http://www.richardhartley.com/2018/0...acebook-group/ which is powered by the Guardian. You need to read the entire article which they can't do with the link you gave and they need to read links to the article. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-antisemitism

[jaxie]

Cameron wasn't bad and I'll always be grateful he gave us a vote on the EU. We had 40 years of radical political change and betrayal of our democracy, ruin of fishing communities with the dreadful and outrageous common fisheries policy and the over fishing of our waters and destruction of our fishing stocks by foreign trawlers,with no voice, no say, no votes as all these things were given away by successive governments. But he ruined his legacy by running off because he had no plan, betraying us all over again.

I cringe a little bit more every time I hear some self righteous MP witter on about how they wanted to remain and that leave wasn't clear enough and didn't mention the customs union, the single market and the packet of digestives in Junker's desk drawer.

I dislike and distrust Corbyn and his momentum gang intensely. If this country is foolish enough to ever put them in power then it's probably going to deserve the bed it's going to lay in. I don't know the truth of anti semitism in the party but it comes up a lot and there is a need for scrutiny. Corbyn definitely seems to have some strong sympathies in the past with terrorist organisations, particularly anti Jewish ones.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

We've had David Cameron and Theresa May tbf so anything is possible.

I liked Cameron,thought he was a good PM,it's just a matter of what you believe in.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Good article by Dan Hodges (a Labour supporter for the record) on this today

Over 150 pages, it painstakingly detailed how Corbyn had spent two years as a member of a closed Facebook group called Palestine Live. The group was a veritable cesspit of anti-Semitism, containing vast numbers of racist posts and links ranging from Holocaust denial, through Zionist conspiracy theories and 9/11 conspiracy theories, to descriptions of Jews as ‘Zios’, ‘ZioNazi’ and ‘JewNazi’.

Collier’s research revealed Corbyn had engaged with the group, had been lauded by its members, and had organised meetings at the Commons for members via the site. In response, Corbyn’s office claimed he had been added to the group without his knowledge or consent.

When it was pointed out he had posted on the site, they backtracked and claimed he had only responded to individual posts in which he’d been mentioned. Then it was pointed out he had in fact ‘favoured’ various pieces of general content. At which point Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell appeared on television to claim Corbyn had left the group as soon as its vile nature had been brought to his attention.

Unfortunately, Corbyn himself had already undermined that defence, admitting he had only left the site when he was elected Labour leader. So his office finally fell back on the line that he had not personally seen or engaged with any anti-Semitic content directly.

At this point the reaction was instantaneous and savage. An instantaneous and savage silence.

From Labour’s Shadow Cabinet there was silence. From Labour MPs there was silence. From the Tory Party there was silence. On the main broadcast bulletins there was silence. On the front pages of the national newspapers there was silence. Across the nation. Silence. It’s important to repeat again what had occurred. The leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition admitted to being a member of what by any objective definition is a Facebook group of unremitting anti-Semitic hatred. He admitted to engaging with that group, of organising meetings on behalf of that group, and of remaining a member of that group for two full years.

And yet there is nothing. No internal challenge or repudiation. No external challenge or repudiation. Just a collective shrug.

Full article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...l-compass.html

Brilliantly informative and reinforces what some of us already know - that Corbyn is anti-Semitic through and through.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Brilliantly informative and reinforces what some of us already know - that Corbyn is anti-Semitic through and through.

And that his defenders will continue to defend him no matter what. Evidence is not the issue any more - agendas are.

[Kizzy]

Let's look at some more evidence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24343074

This is antisemetism at it's worst, the panic that we might actually have a Jewish PM!!

Here is all manner of abusive language...

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

And here's a summation..

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture...t-wing-problem

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Let's look at some more evidence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24343074

This is antisemetism at it's worst, the panic that we might actually have a Jewish PM!!

Here is all manner of abusive language...

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

And here's a summation..

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture...t-wing-problem

again

you are trying to move the debate away from Corbyn's hatred of the jews by linking to articles about antisemitism

make another thread about that, stick to the subject here