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Old 09-05-2018, 10:48 PM #26
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It's an extremely difficult question to answer actually.
I think the action itself can be seen as quite selfish. You're ending all your own problems in such a permanent way while leaving behind so much anguish and pain to your loved ones, especially those that find you.
But I don't think it's ever something that someone would do without months of internal struggle and it shows above anything why people need to talk more about this.
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:49 PM #27
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I totally get your point, but when someone is absolutely ravaged with depression they don't take other people into consideration and all they want is a release and the pain they're feeling to stop, physical and mental pain. Agony, if you will.

I've suffered (and will do throughout my life on and off) with mild depression and severe anxiety, and that "MILD" depression was unbearable, so to have a severe case and get to the point of wanting to end your life, is unimaginable. Incomparable to anything else. Like what I feel/felt was agonising enough, so I have nothing but total sympathy for those with severe cases.

I think depression in itself needs more understanding so that people will see that people with depression who do sadly kill themselves are not acting in a selfish way, it's an abnormality of the brain that absolutely engulfs a person.
I totally get you!, but if those with depression don't seek help and keep it hidden those that love them can't help and will spend the rest of their life's asking themselves why didn't they see it.

If someone truly wants to kill them selves they will do it.
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:04 PM #28
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Nope. Though it doesn’t mean I’m encouraging it. People feeling suicidal really should get the help they need tbh...
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:11 PM #29
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Jonnii, thank you for your support.

The problem we have here is that the subject of the thread is too broad.
Reasons for suicide can be so varied. It's tough to compare somebody who does it in a moment of madness, say, trying to take revenge for perceived mistreatment by others (spurned lover, rebellious child, jealous spouse), people struck by sudden misfortune (bankrupcy, job loss, etc), people who are terminally ill, people with mental problems.
And even within those categories circumstances will be different and impact on others may be different.
A lonely woman kills herself quietly with sleeping pills and a plastic bag because she can't cope with her MS, a schoolboy kills himself by throwing himself off a bridge onto a busy motorway. He is bullied at school and blames whole society and wants to disrupt other people's lives in revenge. Both suicides, but not the same in their selfishness.

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Old 09-05-2018, 11:40 PM #30
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I totally get you!, but if those with depression don't seek help and keep it hidden those that love them can't help and will spend the rest of their life's asking themselves why didn't they see it.

If someone truly wants to kill them selves they will do it.
Agreed, if you want to kill yourself you can always do it.

As to those with depression not seeking help, life is not that simple.
Sometimes people are trapped pretending they're fine because that's what's expected of them.
Sometimes people try to seek help and are met with unhelpful or demoralised health service professionals. Sometimes depressed people cannot be persistent and eloquent enough to explain how they feel because depression diminished their cognitive skills.
I can give you some examples from my encounters with "help".
I moved from one part of London to another 6 years ago. I'd suffered from depression for the last 19 years and my records showed that. The first practice I registerd with at the new address couldn't manage to get my records transferred from the old practice for 6 months. I had to beg for every single prescription of antidepressants until they finally got my records. For the next two years it was smooth sailing. Then I started going downhill very quickly. Went to ask for a referral, a GP told me that I have nothing to be depressed about and should try his life to see what hardship is. So I changed the practice. There first doctor I saw agreed to refer me and then forgot while I waited for 5 months. Went to another who thankfully refered me straightaway. 2 months later had my assessment with a psychiatrist where I was told I have to wait up to a year to see a therapist. During that year they tinkered changing my antidepressants as nothing seemed to work anymore. Finally arrived at something that wasn't brilliant but made my life bearable. The therapy consisted of 8 1hr meetings with no possibility of extension (lack of resources). Try to get your whole outlook on life and unresolved issues sorted in 8 hours. After that psychiatrist had enough and started pressurising me gently to say I wasn't suicidal anymore. I complied and they dropped me. Am I better, yes. Am I cured, no. I'm still depressed and anxious. Sometimes I can't face the outside world. But according to them, I'm good to go.
I was persistent because I wanted to save myself for those I love. Others may not have enough strength to battle the system.

Geez, I'm giving Maru run for her money with the length of this post

Last edited by Twosugars; 09-05-2018 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 10-05-2018, 12:43 AM #31
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Yes but as others have said, it’s unintentional.
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Old 10-05-2018, 01:23 AM #32
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Members should start a depression and anxiety awareness group on here.
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Old 10-05-2018, 03:15 AM #33
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Originally Posted by Twosugars View Post
Agreed, if you want to kill yourself you can always do it.

As to those with depression not seeking help, life is not that simple.
Sometimes people are trapped pretending they're fine because that's what's expected of them.
Sometimes people try to seek help and are met with unhelpful or demoralised health service professionals. Sometimes depressed people cannot be persistent and eloquent enough to explain how they feel because depression diminished their cognitive skills.
I can give you some examples from my encounters with "help".
I moved from one part of London to another 6 years ago. I'd suffered from depression for the last 19 years and my records showed that. The first practice I registerd with at the new address couldn't manage to get my records transferred from the old practice for 6 months. I had to beg for every single prescription of antidepressants until they finally got my records. For the next two years it was smooth sailing. Then I started going downhill very quickly. Went to ask for a referral, a GP told me that I have nothing to be depressed about and should try his life to see what hardship is. So I changed the practice. There first doctor I saw agreed to refer me and then forgot while I waited for 5 months. Went to another who thankfully refered me straightaway. 2 months later had my assessment with a psychiatrist where I was told I have to wait up to a year to see a therapist. During that year they tinkered changing my antidepressants as nothing seemed to work anymore. Finally arrived at something that wasn't brilliant but made my life bearable. The therapy consisted of 8 1hr meetings with no possibility of extension (lack of resources). Try to get your whole outlook on life and unresolved issues sorted in 8 hours. After that psychiatrist had enough and started pressurising me gently to say I wasn't suicidal anymore. I complied and they dropped me. Am I better, yes. Am I cured, no. I'm still depressed and anxious. Sometimes I can't face the outside world. But according to them, I'm good to go.
I was persistent because I wanted to save myself for those I love. Others may not have enough strength to battle the system.

Geez, I'm giving Maru run for her money with the length of this post
It's NOT really a long post Twosugars, but it is a beautifully honest and brilliant post. Thank you.

AS with the other honest posts on here, I am genuinely moved and more than a little disturbed.

All too often on these forums, we become so used to unconscious imagery and imagined personas created by avatars and words, that we lose sight of the fact that there are real people - humans - behind the chat and discussions.

I have been 'depressed' as I guess most people have at some times in their lives but I don't think that I have ever suffered 'Depression' of the degree being revealed here and my heart goes out to those who are suffering from this.

We are all too familiar with the increasingly common reports of medical/surgical patients being kept overnight on trolleys in corridors through a lack of hospital beds and other atrocious and unacceptable 'horror' stories due to the NHS lack of funding crisis, but experiences like yours with the lack of care from Medical profession and Psychiatrists are less well publicised but as equally enraging and SOMETHING must be done to improve this unacceptable state of affairs.

I believe wholeheartedly that discussion has a cathartic effect on me and I hope - genuinely hope - that this is the same for you and other depression sufferers on here.

My Message Box is always open should you or anyone else ever feel any need to talk - politics or shet - it does not matter.

I have been made to stop and think about my views on certain subjects by the contributions to this thread about a subject which I hitherto never thought about, and THAT in itself is a fact to be lauded.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:19 AM #34
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I don't know if I would call it selfish, but I do get interested in what's so wrong in someone's life that they would want to kill themselves?
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Old 10-05-2018, 07:59 AM #35
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I think it's actually quite a brave thing to do
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:33 AM #36
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I think it's actually quite a brave thing to do
maybe it would be braver to accept you have a problem and get professional help?
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:39 AM #37
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No I don't think it is and it upsets me when people say that like it's some frivolous decision people make. I can't even imagine how utterly low and helpless and full of despair a person must feel to get to where they think suicide is the only way to free themselves from that. My best friend committed suicide when she was 18 and I know she's not a selfish person and I wish she never got that life stealing disease, depression.
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:40 AM #38
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maybe it would be braver to accept you have a problem and get professional help?
With all due respect LT, a lot of people who end up committing suicide have admitted they have a problem and have gotten professional help
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:02 AM #39
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I don't think it is black and white, I think if the person takes their life and outwardly there were no signs and they leave no note it leaves the family behind with questions that will never be answered and also at a loss as to why they couldn't help' so in some ways it can be unintentionally selfish as the person is so wrapped up in their own depression they can't take account of anyone else's feelings, just imagine if your brother, sister, mother, daughter took their life and you had no idea why? I don't know how I would cope with that
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:02 AM #40
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So in light of the current storyline in coronation street, it’s got me thinking what everyone’s opinions on the subject are, Do you feel that Suicide is a selfish thing to do?


Of course , it is.
Totally.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:05 AM #41
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With all due respect LT, a lot of people who end up committing suicide have admitted they have a problem and have gotten professional help
really, how do you know that?
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:05 AM #42
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With all due respect LT, a lot of people who end up committing suicide have admitted they have a problem and have gotten professional help

Yes One Lady , I knew
was in Love with a Married Man
his Wife stopped her Solid

She sadly was so in love with him
and because she was stopped from seeing him,
she killed herself
Tragic.

Last edited by arista; 10-05-2018 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:08 AM #43
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really, how do you know that?
Well I was aware that my best friend was suffering from depression and was getting professional help before she died, I was also at a funeral very recently of a man I know who committed suicide and his close family and friends were all aware he suffered with depression and he was getting professional help.
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Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
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Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:10 AM #44
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I don't think it is black and white, I think if the person takes their life and outwardly there were no signs and they leave no note it leaves the family behind with questions that will never be answered and also at a loss as to why they couldn't help' so in some ways it can be unintentionally selfish as the person is so wrapped up in their own depression they can't take account of anyone else's feelings, just imagine if your brother, sister, mother, daughter took their life and you had no idea why? I don't know how I would cope with that
That was one thing I was really glad about after my friend died, that she'd left me a note trying to help me understand what was going on in her head and to say goodbye.
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You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
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Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
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Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:10 AM #45
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Well I was aware that my best friend was suffering from depression and was getting professional help before she died, I was also at a funeral very recently of a man I know who committed suicide and his close family and friends were all aware he suffered with depression and he was getting professional help.

She professional help
is not enough, on its own for some folks,
Valid Points
Fine Lady.

Last edited by arista; 10-05-2018 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:12 AM #46
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She professional help
is not enough on its own for some folks
Valid Points
Fine Lady.
No it isn't, I do often wonder if she'd waited a bit longer because she was so young would things have gotten better for her but maybe not I don't know. 18 is so young, my own daughter just turned 18 last Monday
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Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
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Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:14 AM #47
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Well I was aware that my best friend was suffering from depression and was getting professional help before she died, I was also at a funeral very recently of a man I know who committed suicide and his close family and friends were all aware he suffered with depression and he was getting professional help.
maybe the fact that 3x more men kill themselves explains that women are more likely to seek help/talk than men?
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:15 AM #48
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That was one thing I was really glad about after my friend died, that she'd left me a note trying to help me understand what was going on in her head and to say goodbye.
So sad for you but a note at least is closure of sorts.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:18 AM #49
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maybe the fact that 3x more men kill themselves explains that women are more likely to seek help/talk than men?
Well I just gave you an example of both a man and a woman there who both seeked help. My friend also said there was alot of men in her group.

I read somewhere though that (or maybe Vicky told me this statistic) that its not that men are more inclined to suffer from depression than women or more inclined to attempt suicide but that they are more inclined to use more violent and therefore successful methods
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Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
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Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:19 AM #50
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Well I just gave you an example of both a man and a woman there who both seeked help. My friend also said there was alot of men in her group.

I read somewhere though that (or maybe Vicky told me this statistic) that its not that men are more inclined to suffer from depression than women or more inclined to attempt suicide but that they are more inclined to use more violent and therefore successful methods
Yes but anecdotal evidence is just that, I wonder if there have been any studies done?
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