[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

A good example of what's wrong with the world here.

Why listen to facts that people don't want to hear when they find fairy tales spun to them by the likes of Trump and other people that tell them what they want to hear more appealing?

The truth doesn't matter if people don't like what's being said, sadly.

‘Why listen to facts they don’t want to hear’ - you really should follow your own advice - as your words apply just as equally to those on the left/PC brigade as to those on the right - but you wouldn’t think so listening to your constant one-sided diatribe.

The left are not the experts on truth, morality and right and wrong and do not have the moral right to enforce their opinions onto everyone else living in the country to fit with their own views and neither are you on who is or isn’t gullible and hearing what they want to hear - those in glass houses! Dictatorships come in many shapes and sizes!

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

This is what I'm talking about really.


You're pushing the idea that these people are using their kids for a free citizenship when that's rarely, if ever, the case.

These people know they are taking a risk and if legal immigration is not an option then how desperate must their situation be to take those risks? Too many people are so quick to believe the 'Immigrants just want to sponge off benefits lol' spin that they close themselves to the truth. These are mostly desperate people doing what they can for their families.

It's not hardened criminals or smugglers that are being subjected to this, it's innocent children and families who just want a chance.

The reason they come is because of the fairy tale ending people who have slipped the net portrait....

Post your proof about the rest or shut ya gums.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

‘Why listen to facts they don’t want to hear’ - you really should follow your own advice - as your words apply just as equally to those on the left/PC brigade as to those on the right - but you wouldn’t think so listening to your constant one-sided diatribe.

The left are not the experts on truth, morality and right and wrong and do not have the moral right to enforce their opinions onto everyone else living in the country to fit with their own views and neither are you on who is or isn’t gullible and hearing what they want to hear - those in glass houses! Dictatorships come in many shapes and sizes!

This isn't an issue of the right or left. Why must you always try to simplify every thread into your own diatribe against the left and the 'PC brigade' (the latter of which is quite funny considering how PC you can be).

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

The reason they come is because of the fairy tale ending people who have slipped the net portrait....

Post your proof about the rest or shut ya gums.

People who offer nothing in the way of a counter argument except for 'WHERE'S UR PROOF' have nothing left to say.

If you want proof, here's your proof.

[parmnion]

Same as you then...only..




This time, its been proven the cages n the greetin photo bollox is exactly that
..like i showed on page early, or before you came along anyway.....


N lets face it, you r onalee coating me cause as pisehd.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Same as you then...only..




This time, its been proven the cages n the greetin photo bollox is exactly that
..like i showed on page early, or before you came along anyway.....


N lets face it, you r onalee coating me cause as pisehd.

No those pictures don't disprove anything. That fake news story was something you brought up like it overrode all the other valid news stories about the sanctioned child abuse that was going on. You can't stop a tidal wave with a spade. One fake news story doesn't undo the truth.

This child abuse is happening, you cannot deny it and so you are either for this abuse or you oppose it. That's the long and short of it.

[Marsh.]

Isn't it illegal to drink and debate?

[lime]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

‘Why listen to facts they don’t want to hear’ - you really should follow your own advice - as your words apply just as equally to those on the left/PC brigade as to those on the right - but you wouldn’t think so listening to your constant one-sided diatribe.

The left are not the experts on truth, morality and right and wrong and do not have the moral right to enforce their opinions onto everyone else living in the country to fit with their own views and neither are you on who is or isn’t gullible and hearing what they want to hear - those in glass houses! Dictatorships come in many shapes and sizes!

Jeez Brillo....You don't have to be left or right to see what is happening now in US...nor to have be a parent.....just human will suffice.


The now sitting POTUS is throwing out statements .."equall but seperate" if that doesn't send shivers down your spine...I don't know.I grew up during apartheid in SA....something much more sinister is afoott in the US .


It really is frighting to watch in 2018

[lime]

:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Quite.

Its terrifying to me that people actually agree with what he is doing and rationalize it. Its beyond defensible. I have actually genuinely removed people from facebook over this issue and will not speak to them in real life when I see them either. I never remove people for personal opinions that differ from mine as variety is the spice of life and all of that, I even put up with some people posting Britain First type 'Muslims are coming for our xmas' type posts, though I do argue with them over it. But I simply cannot muster the energy to argue on this topic with people who agree with him separating kids from parents and basically holding babies hostage in cages so that he gets his own way. Its utterly barbaric, and I want nothing to do with anyone who supports it in any way. I cannot believe anyone would defend this. Or I would like to believe such people would be as rare as hens teeth, but its surprising how many seem to agree with him because 'nasty immigrants'.




Edit. That it went on under Obama is neither here nor there, but it seems there was a different set of circumstances and it was nowhere near as many children. It seems that the previous admininstration kept kids who were trying to cross alone, or in case of suspected abuse/smuggling..not that they sent the parents away and kept the kids as hostages, as negotiating tools, as if they aren't real ****ing people. If Obama was purposely separating children from parents to hold them hostage to get his own way with something, I would say he was a ****ing gross vile bastard too. The rationalizing and minimizing and deflecting from the issue at hand in this thread has kind of turned my stomach, I had only read up to the quoted post when I replied, I honestly did not think people on here would be defending this, regardless of where their political alliances lie. But of course, I was wrong on that. I won't be back to the thread..as I just find some of the replies utterly disgusting. Different opinions are great, its good to be able to argue with people in this section, however this is something I really feel there shouldn't be any disagreement on at all. And that there is..well...I guess its my problem, not anyone elses

I am surprised by how strong my feelings are about this actually. people on here know I tend to suffer an empathy bypass, though still have a sense of right and wrong (cheers mam and dad) but I do have very very strong feelings on this, which is quite alien to me. I have never ever been totally unable to tolerate different opinions on any topic in this section before..even stuff thats personal to me such as abortion issues, but on this, I really cannot stand it. maybe its because I genuinely can see the parallels with Nazi Germany, and no thats not an exaggeration at all.

And yes, the thread maybe went a bit off topic. But threads develop naturally, and the wall is connected to this kids thing anyway so its not totally off topic. And no it won't be closed just because many people disagree with someones posts, which seems to be whats requested.

So glad somone who 's first lanuage is English said exactly what I wanted to say

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

This isn't an issue of the right or left. Why must you always try to simplify every thread into your own diatribe against the left and the 'PC brigade' (the latter of which is quite funny considering how PC you can be).

Objecting to people trying to stick the ‘racist’ label on others in an attempt to undermine their opinions is not PC and your constant attempts to imply so is laughable. Deflection at its worst.

Many of your posts, including the one I responded to, have that same tone to them and your comments that people only hear what they want to hear was clearly aimed at anyone who supports America’s right to protect its borders with an underlying tone that such people only support it because they are racist and right wing. There are many other reasons why people support it.

You set the tone so don’t complain about the response. As I said ‘hearing what they want to hear’ applies to many people and has nothing to do with political stance. You were the one suggesting it was - you don’t have to actually say the words to make your meaning perfectly clear, sadly.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why answer a question with a question?

Because it was a very pertinent question! An answer would be good!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by lime

Jeez Brillo....You don't have to be left or right to see what is happening now in US...nor to have be a parent.....just human will suffice.


The now sitting POTUS is throwing out statements .."equall but seperate" if that doesn't send shivers down your spine...I don't know.I grew up during apartheid in SA....something much more sinister is afoott in the US .


It really is frighting to watch in 2018

agree Lime, I don't pay alot of attention to US politics, we have enough issues of our own, but this does seem a step to far

[Toy Soldier]

He calls them "animals", "murderers and thieves", "an infestation"... There's really no debate about it, the language he uses is just flat out dangerous. How can people have such a short memory? He tries plausible deniability by saying "oh I only mean the gangs and criminals" and that's the line his supporters go with, but then his actual stance is that as you never know which ones are criminals, you should assume ALL are criminals, to "be on the safe side".

In other words, treat all immigrants as animals, murderers and thieves, and an infestation. "Just in case".

Anyone who claims not to see the parallels with early 20th century Nazi propaganda either has a poor knowledge of the build up to the war and thinks it was all tanks and death camps from the start, or is simply lying to them self.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Objecting to people trying to stick the ‘racist’ label on others in an attempt to undermine their opinions is not PC and your constant attempts to imply so is laughable. Deflection at its worst.

Many of your posts, including the one I responded to, have that same tone to them and your comments that people only hear what they want to hear was clearly aimed at anyone who supports America’s right to protect its borders with an underlying tone that such people only support it because they are racist and right wing. There are many other reasons why people support it.

You set the tone so don’t complain about the response. As I said ‘hearing what they want to hear’ applies to many people and has nothing to do with political stance. You were the one suggesting it was - you don’t have to actually say the words to make your meaning perfectly clear, sadly.

So basically you want to throw the whole thread offtopic, cool.

As I said to Parm and as Lime has said. This is not a left or right issue. This is an issue of whether or not you agree with state sanctioned child abuse because that is what this is. You seem to agree with it under the guise of 'protecting the borders' (what harm do children present, i wonder?).

This post has little to do with the topic at hand and more to do with your own insecurities.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

He calls them "animals", "murderers and thieves", "an infestations"... There's really no debate about it, the language he uses is just flat out dangerous. How can people have such a short memory? He tries plausible deniability by saying "oh I only mean the gangs and criminals" and that's the line his supporters go with, but then his actual stance is that as you never know which ones are criminals, you should assumr ALL are criminals, to "be on the safe side".

In other words, treat all immigrants as animals, murderers and thieves, and an infestation. "Just in case".

Anyone who claims not to see the parallels with early 20th century Nazi propaganda either has a poor knowledge of the build up to the war and thinks it was all tanks and death camps from the start, or is simply lying to them self.

Exactly, the Nazi parallels are terrifying. America is marching down the same path gladly and ignoring all the danger signs because Trump's fans would rather believe in fairy tales than see the reality of the situation they're in.

[arista]

Dezzy it's "some" of Trump fans
you should say,
not all that voted Trump into power
are what you think they are.

to be fair

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

So basically you want to throw the whole thread offtopic, cool.

As I said to Parm and as Lime has said. This is not a left or right issue. This is an issue of whether or not you agree with state sanctioned child abuse because that is what this is. You seem to agree with it under the guise of 'protecting the borders' (what harm do children present, i wonder?).

This post has little to do with the topic at hand and more to do with your own insecurities.

It does as it challenges your ridiculous ascertions that only the racist and right wing support it. You are the one constantly making political digs either directly or indirectly.

At no time did I say I support ‘locking up children’ (you love using emotive language to try to politicise your point) I just pointed out that ultimately the parents should be thinking about the effects on THEIR children of trying to enter America illegally. I wonder how many have actually tried to gain entry legally before going straight for the illegal route.

What do you suggest - America just opens its borders to all regardless of the consequences on its citizens. Btw - they have rights too!

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

He calls them "animals", "murderers and thieves", "an infestation"... There's really no debate about it, the language he uses is just flat out dangerous. How can people have such a short memory? He tries plausible deniability by saying "oh I only mean the gangs and criminals" and that's the line his supporters go with, but then his actual stance is that as you never know which ones are criminals, you should assume ALL are criminals, to "be on the safe side".

In other words, treat all immigrants as animals, murderers and thieves, and an infestation. "Just in case".

Anyone who claims not to see the parallels with early 20th century Nazi propaganda either has a poor knowledge of the build up to the war and thinks it was all tanks and death camps from the start, or is simply lying to them self.

No you shouldn't, you should open your borders and have free access for anyone in the World who want's to come, and worry about the consequences later.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Exactly, the Nazi parallels are terrifying. America is marching down the same path gladly and ignoring all the danger signs because Trump's fans would rather believe in fairy tales than see the reality of the situation they're in.

There you go again - ‘Trump fans’ who by definition are ‘right wing’ who believe in fairy tales. Your Nazi parallels sound more like someone believing in fairy tales to me (more of the emotive language you love so much). Such correlations are pure hysteria on your part in my opinion.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

He calls them "animals", "murderers and thieves", "an infestation"... There's really no debate about it, the language he uses is just flat out dangerous. How can people have such a short memory? He tries plausible deniability by saying "oh I only mean the gangs and criminals" and that's the line his supporters go with, but then his actual stance is that as you never know which ones are criminals, you should assume ALL are criminals, to "be on the safe side".

In other words, treat all immigrants as animals, murderers and thieves, and an infestation. "Just in case".

Anyone who claims not to see the parallels with early 20th century Nazi propaganda either has a poor knowledge of the build up to the war and thinks it was all tanks and death camps from the start, or is simply lying to them self.

If I compare people to Nazis, that means I'm a good person and in the right. Please like me everyone.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by arista

Dezzy it's "some" of Trump fans
you should say,
not all that voted Trump into power
are what you think they are.

to be fair

Anybody that voted for Trump is exactly what I think they are, ignorant as they chose to ignore the MOUNTAINS of fact checks that proved that Trump spoke in nothing but lies and voted because he spun them a fairy tale that they liked the sound of.

He's lost a lot of support since being in office because he's shown that he doesn't care about the working or middle classes like he said he did, he hired a bunch of million/billionaires for administration positions, given **** tons of tax breaks to the rich and is trying to dismantle benefits and Obamacare that people are reliant to live. Trump talks of wasting billions on a wall and a ****ing space force while 40% of the country is struggling to afford to fulfill their basic needs. Anybody that still claims he supports the lower classes in this day is wilfully ignorant.

The only diehard supporters left now are the ones that support his views and practices on immigration and anyone that supports this state sanctioned child abuse...well...it speaks for itself.

Trump has rode his way to power on a wave of wilful ignorance.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Anybody that voted for Trump is exactly what I think they are, ignorant as they chose to ignore the MOUNTAINS of fact checks that proved that Trump spoke in nothing but lies and voted because he spun them a fairy tale that they liked the sound of.

He's lost a lot of support since being in office because he's shown that he doesn't care about the working or middle classes like he said he did, he hired a bunch of million/billionaires for administration positions, given **** tons of tax breaks to the rich and is trying to dismantle benefits and Obamacare that people are reliant to live. Trump talks of wasting billions on a wall and a ****ing space force while 40% of the country is struggling to afford to fulfill their basic needs. Anybody that still claims he supports the lower classes in this day is wilfully ignorant.

The only diehard supporters left now are the ones that support his views and practices on immigration and anyone that supports this state sanctioned child abuse...well...it speaks for itself.

Trump has rode his way to power on a wave of wilful ignorance.

Ah the alternative - Hilary Clinton! Speaks volumes on why so many voted for Trump. Give people such a poor choice you are likely to get a poor result. In many ways the devious and criminal Clinton would have been a poorer choice for many. Do please enlighten us to the benefits of a Clinton givernment.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It does as it challenges your ridiculous ascertions that only the racist and right wing support it. You are the one constantly making political digs either directly or indirectly.

At no time did I say I support ‘locking up children’ (you love using emotive language to try to politicise your point) I just pointed out that ultimately the parents should be thinking about the effects on THEIR children of trying to enter America illegally. I wonder how many have actually tried to gain entry legally before going straight for the illegal route.

What do you suggest - America just opens its borders to all regardless of the consequences on its citizens. Btw - they have rights too!

If you're gonna make assumptions can you at least make sure are on the same hemisphere of being right? I'm sick of dealing with your insecurities about racism that causes you to read something out of nothing in every post you oppose. Stick to what people are actually saying, not the garbled version of what you want to hear.

How is it the parents' fault that their children are being taken away from them when it's never happened before unless smuggling or child abuse was involved? Before Trump, immigrants were never separated from their children like this. WHY are children being taken from their parents like this when it never happened before? What is the purpose of doing so aside from cruelty?

As for my 'emotive' language, it's accurate. Go look up any psychologist or expert on abuse's opinions on this matter and they pretty much all say the same thing. This is child abuse.

As I've said before, you cannot deny that this is happening, you cannot deny it's not child abuse or morally reprehensible. This is not an issue or left or right or PC as you are so desperate to make it, this is an issue of whether or not you agree with this practice.

Do you agree with seperating children from their parents in their thousands? Yes or no. There's nothing else to it.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Ah the alternative - Hilary Clinton! Speaks volumes on why so many voted for Trump. Give people such a poor choice you are likely to get a poor result. In many ways the devious and criminal Clinton would have been a poorer choice for many. Do please enlighten us to the benefits of a Clinton givernment.

miss monica lewinsky can tell us about the clinton government, she experienced Bill up, close and personal as u.s president lol

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Ah the alternative - Hilary Clinton! Speaks volumes on why so many voted for Trump. Give people such a poor choice you are likely to get a poor result. In many ways the devious and criminal Clinton would have been a poorer choice for many. Do please enlighten us to the benefits of a Clinton givernment.

People didn't vote for her, it's a waste of time talking about a hypothetical situation when reality is problematic but I see why you want to make it about Hillary Clinton, you know you can't win if we keep discussing Trump.

People chose to vote for Trump despite everything that was COMMON KNOWLEDGE that completely rubbished everything he was saying. In no world where common sense is applicable was he the best option in an impartial sense or not. People chose to vote on fairy tales rather than reality.